Advice needed: Buying a gun on line in a personal sale

[9w1911]

Looks like I found me a 1999 Marlin CB LTD in 44mag, one of my dream rifles.
The price is good 700.00 shipped if I can pay today and shipped to my FFL who happens to be my employer. So the gun comes to the office:)

Now I dont want to be taken in the deal so any advice is much appreciated.

[dragon813gt]

Is it on Gunbroker? I've bought from plenty of individuals, not stores. As long as your FFL receives the proper info from the seller all is good. I bought a 336 off a member here and it went smooth as butter. Since you said it's a Marlin if you are buying off the Marlin Owners forum you don't have anything to worry about.

[9w1911]

It is from Armslist.com
He is in North Carolina and I am in Nevada.

I did just receive all of his banking info and I have not contacted my FFL but I am about to.

[kungfustyle]

Buying online....I bought a 30-30 from a member on this forum, I've bought from Budsgunshop.com, sold one on gunbroker.com and been on our floridaguntrader.com but did the transaction face to face. http://shop.williamsgunsight.com/moreinfo.aspx?pid=018298&cs=/sproducts.aspx&ai=M
Williamsgunsight.com is a great place to... Just go with reputation, has anyone else bought from this person? $700 would be missed if it fell into wrong hands....
I don't know if I would do that deal...if they accept credit cards and it goes south you could always dispute it. But just trusting someone on armslist.com...Not me, not out of state.

[dragon813gt]

Banking info? Do you have any recourse? I've paid w/ a credit card or Postal MO. Both have fraud protection. The MO not so much but it's still there. I personally won't wire transfer money to someone I don't know. And I gladly pay the extra fees on Gunbroker to pay w/ a CC.

[9w1911]

Yea I am not sure what to do here.

I would love to buy from a member here. Or even have a member meet the man for a ftf and get the rifle. Not sure what to do. Defrauding me of 700 is a felony I think especially if its across state lines, but there is no refund I will be out of the dough if he is a crook.

[dragon813gt]

I personally don't peruse Armslist. Friends have had some shady dealings and I don't need a firearm that bad.

[xtphreak]

Have him do the shipping through a REPUTABLE FFL in North Carolina.
Set it up so that your FFL sends his copy of his license AND your money order to the other FFL in NC, NOT the individual seller.
Talk to the FFL in NC before the money and the license gets sent.
Were it I, I would feel much more comfortable having a reputable business on the other end.

[9w1911]

I agree with shipping from a NC FFL would be great

I have had good luck on Armslist but always face to face

[waksupi]

Ask if he will do COD. That covers both of you.

[pietro]

Yea I am not sure what to do here.

I would love to buy from a member here. Or even have a member meet the man for a ftf and get the rifle. Not sure what to do. Defrauding me of 700 is a felony I think especially if its across state lines, but there is no refund I will be out of the dough if he is a crook.



FWIW, I always use a USPS Money Order, mailed to the seller's snailmail addy - so the US Postal Inspectors can be involved if the transaction turns into a Federal crime (Postal Fraud).


.

[bigarm]

I am not sure what to do. I have bought off of Armslist and did fine. What I can say is that sounds like a very nice rifle and that is a good price.

[Gtek]

Was any inspection period stated? If not ask.

[MrWolf]

I got beat on a Gunbroker deal where the seller would only accept a certifued bank check. I relied on Gunbroker's fraud protection. Stupid me. I will only buy from members here or FTF. I did buy once on Armslist and it worked out fine but it was really a connection to the Marlin Owners site.

[Beagle333]

I have had nothing but great luck on Armslist. I have found good deals and have never gotten a sour one. But I have walked down dark alleys and never got mugged either... so you can't take anybody's experiences to mean you won't be a victim of anything. I just put as many checks in place and get as much information as I can and hope they were all enough to insure a good safe sale.

[9w1911]

hey would accept a uspsmo.
he is reluctant to ship from an FFL
and he made no mention of a COD deal
I am getting mildly cold on this. I can spend now and improve my collection because of new work but that does not mean every 100.00 is not thrown to the wind. If I lost 700.00 its a huge hit. A rifle I can sell if times get tough, getting robbed, well is getting robbed.

[Blammer]

If you are worried, I would have him ship from an FFL to your FFL.

Or COD.

if you "THINK" you may not get the gun, back out, first instincts are usually right.

[Blammer]

9w911 send me a PM we'll talk. I'm in NC and may have some suggestions.

[9w1911]

oh yeah, the red flag : he cant ship till he gets the money to ship, that's why no COD

[petroid]

If you ship FFL to FFL you will likely have to pay both FFL fees. Slightly more cost to you but worth it to verify SN and actual product. It's no more work for the seller than taking it to post office. If he won't do this, then it begs the question, why?

[Blammer]

9w1911 your PM box is full.

[dragon813gt]

oh yeah, the red flag : he cant ship till he gets the money to ship, that's why no COD

Walk away. I would pay the extra to have it shipped from an FFL to you. A few extra bucks for peace of mind is completely worth it.

[9w1911]

I agree

[starmac]

Well the guy may be a super guy, and just super broke. Possibly the reason to sell in the first place, but at that price it would go quick locally in a face to face deal, so I have to ask why is he listing and wanting to ship it.

[9w1911]

update: he is calling a friend to see if he can use his dealer for an FFL to FFL ship

**and we arranging a dealer to dealer ship now so I think I am happy
***this is just not going smooth

[MrWolf]

*crosses fingers* hope it works out for you. I am still fighting with Gunbroker and I purchased six months ago.

[CBH]

9w1911 check your pm

[Ed in North Texas]

I got beat on a Gunbroker deal where the seller would only accept a certifued bank check. I relied on Gunbroker's fraud protection. Stupid me. I will only buy from members here or FTF. I did buy once on Armslist and it worked out fine but it was really a connection to the Marlin Owners site.

I think the key with GunBroker is the seller must want to continue doing business on GB for there to be leverage. I had one problem and it was handled very well by the GB staff - but it was an FFL holder, not John Q. Public. I've bought from Mr. Public before, but relied on the GB feedback for the sellers.

[9w1911]

Thanks to CBH above guys I paid for a 44 LTD today from a store near him and it went really smooth, I should have it next week sometime.
600.00 shipped I think I did good.

*After I asked the original fella in NC to bring the rifle to an FFL for inspection and that I would pay him 50.00 to ship it to my FFL COD I have not heard back from him.

[starmac]

Sounds like you found a better deal anyway.

[9w1911]

Now do I sell my round barrel 44? Seems prudent to do so since I can't shoot 2 at once

[starmac]

Never. lol It never hurts to have two.

[9w1911]

haha I love you guys!

[dragon813gt]

Sell a firearm????? What is this nonsense you speak of!!!!!

[Boolit_Head]

I've been on both ends of remote sales.

Legally there is no need to ship from a FFL. I also don't see any advantage that may offer, the sending FFL cares little if you get taken on the deal as he just wants to collect his fee. Same for the receiving FFL except you need him to be on the legal side of things. I do believe there is something about shipping handguns through contract carriers only and not USPS. The one I shipped was a shotgun so it could go USPS.

When you are considering ask for additional pictures, if they are not able to provide them then that may be a sign something is up. ask for a detailed picture of some certain piece if you need to clarify. Getting a phone number and having a chat as well might set you to ease or give you the shakes depending on how the other party sounds.

I've been lucky on two purchases so far. My first sale is being delivered today so not quite a done deal.

Ask the seller for a inspection period and if something is wrong don't accept the weapon, leave it at the FFL until you speak to the seller.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Banking info? Do you have any recourse? I've paid w/ a credit card or Postal MO. Both have fraud protection. The MO not so much but it's still there. I personally won't wire transfer money to someone I don't know. And I gladly pay the extra fees on Gunbroker to pay w/ a CC.

This is good advice, and travelling to meet him, if practical, might be good too. Plenty of individuals, these days, are set up to take payments by Paypal. Although it is mostly used for eBay payments, a payment described as being "for goods" enjoys a very high degree of protection, in which they usually take the buyer's word.

"Selling" with the intention of not parting with the goods is a felony, and gross misdescription may be as well. But the loot isn't recovered from all convicted felons. Besides, there is a wide range of overoptimism about condition, belief in a single layer of cardboard, etc. which would be considered a civil lawsuit matter, not criminal. You need a form of payment which gives some means of recourse, and I don't think bank to bank transfer is one of those.

[9w1911]

still no word from the guy I feel fortunate as it was obviously a scam

[odfairfaxsub]

I was trying to buy the same gun...same guy same gun... I was trying to buy it and I was getting bad hints. I told him is buy it if he showed me the ffl guy he was going to use for the transaction and he stopped emailing. Glad you didn't go through bc I'm not. To much red flag

[9w1911]

Wow !!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

still no word from the guy I feel fortunate as it was obviously a scam

Or someone who seized on what bomber pilots term a target of opportunity, in the form of a local sale, possibly for more money.

[Rodfac]

Looks like you made the right decision...that guy had fraud written all over him. I'll add the following for those that buy via the net.

I've had good transactions on Gunbroker over the years, but insist on using an FFL on both ends. You usually have to pay for the seller's end too, but if it's a gun you've waited years to find, etc..... And I insist on using a USPS money order making any fraud a Federal felony.

I've passed on several guns that I really wanted for sellers who wouldn't follow the above stipulations...a sure tip off that something was not right. Too, my FFL will not accept a gun from a private individual unless it goes through another FFL.

You might try asking him to send you a notarized copy of his driver's license as well. And as a previous poster added, asking for add'l pics of specifics especially the serial number is a good idea.

Lastly you stated that it was $700 if you could pay today, why the rush?....sounds like a bad omen as well...all in all, I'd have passed on this one too.

Rod

[TXGunNut]

Stories like this are why I'll probably never buy a gun online. I know these transactions happen without incident a majority of the time but the possibility of fraud and misrepresentation will probably keep sites like Gunbroker in the "reference only" category for me. I may someday buy from one of the major online dealers but will never be comfortable with an offer like this one. With that attitude I'll miss some good guns but many a gun has appealed to me only after I picked it up, examined it and put it to my shoulder.

[9w1911]

I suggest never ever buying a gun online again!

Even going through an FFL or retail store does not promise you good cusotmer service or even prompt service.

FOr example: I was able to find a dream gun of mine last week thanks to a member here. I paid for said gun and it was supposed to ship USPS on the 11th, well the tracking number comes up with nothing , it is not found in the system.
So:
A) they lied and they did not ship even though on the phone he said it shipped on the 11th
B) Basically said it is out of their hands until the tracking worked
C) My response to the manager on the phone today was if the tracking does not work tomorrow I want a refund.

This is not a box of lead or once fired brass or even a pair of jeans, it is a rifle, a firearm that is now, in my opinion, LOST.

[jmort]

I have had many good Gun Broker deals. I agree with the post above FFL to FFL. Credit Card so you can reverse charges is worth extra cost and better than a USPS money order in my opinion.

[9w1911]

Jeez I am wired tight I guess, they had the tracking number wrong!!!!
it is in Reno I should have it tomorrow.

[9w1911]

I trust Gunbroker I cant trust a person to person sale online or even an FFL to FFL anymore I just have no faith in relying on others to do their job, even to satisfactory levels. i was taught there is always more you can do, always, I was never taught to work just enough to finish.. I am not sired that way and when I encounter the later, I get frustrated.

[jmort]

I would have been concerned as well. Had a gun MIA for two days with UPS but in the end, it turned out OK.

[9w1911]

Im not sure if I over reacted or not but I was def concerned and a little upset. I was nice to the guys but in the end its not some wiper blades or underwear.

[dragon813gt]

I'm going to knock on wood. But all of my online experiences have gone off w/out a hitch. Most of them on Gunbroker, from FFLs and individuals. As well as from a member here and the Marlin Owners forum. I was really worried the first time. Since then every transaction has gotten easier. I know the potential to be ripped off is out there. But w/ the amount of transactions that take place on Gunbroker daily the chances of it happening to you is slim.