Powder Coating????

[beltfed]

Can someone please explain the Powder Coating of cast bullets.

Exactly what materials and equipment are needed to do this.

And how to do it.

Does one use lube in addition to the powder coating?

And what are velocity limitations for powder coated bullets
in rifles

in handguns

Thanks
Caster for 60 years,
BUT
A newbie at the idea of powder coating other than the Lee dip lube.
BTW, how well does the Lee dip lube work besides target vel handgun bullets?

beltfed/arnie

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?184-Coatings-and-Alternatives

[sdcitizen]

Powdercoating replaces lube. The simplest and cheapest method is dry tumble, it doesn't work with all powders, but harbor freight's red color ($4.99) works pretty well. Materials needed are an empty cool whip container, a can of powder coating powder, non-stick aluminum foil a baking tray and a countertop convection oven. The most expensive part is the $40 convection oven from wal-mart.

Simply place a handful or two of boolits in the clean empty cool whip container, ~1 tsp of powder, put lid on and swirl for a half minute. Check the coverage, it may take longer depending on humidity. Once boolits are well covered, foreceps or nitrile gloves work to transfer the boolits from the container onto the tray covered with non-stick foil. Don't worry about the tiny marks from where the boolits impacted one another in the swirling process, the powder will smooth out over the surface. Place in toaster oven and bake at 350-400 for 15-30 mins depending on what kind of powder you get. I find that 375 for 22 mins works excellently for every powder and boolit I have tried. Remove, cool and size to desired diameter.

*Notes
-Don't trust the thermometer on your oven dial (mine says 325 when it is actually 375)
-Aluminum foil needs to be non-stick, regular will be permanently glued to the bottom of the boolit.
-If you can't get powder to stick very well, the boolits must be perfectly clean, if they may have oil or grease of any kind on them, wash them in acetone before coating.
-If it is very humid, this method doesn't work well at all, purchase and electrostatic gun and try that, though the use of black airsoft bb's in the cool whip bowl while swirling can help generate more static.
-I am one of smoke4320's satisfied customers, every powder I have tried from him works far better than the harbor freight red.

[sdcitizen]

Velocity limitations are very similar to conventionally lubed boolits, though there is more leeway before leading occurs, but accuracy doesn't seem to be improved. In answer to your final question, before starting powdercoating, I was very happy with lee tumble lube mixed with cooked down johnson's paste wax. Worked very well in 308 at 1550 fps with a plain based boolit, and of course, many other pistol calibers at lower velocity.

There is lots of reading in the coatings and alternatives, but I haven't found a simple short explanation of the starting methodology to give it a try without dozens of pages of reading. I would guess if you bought everything new to get started it would be ~$75 and that would be enough product for more than 5000 boolits.

[bangerjim]

Follow the above link and read the stickies!!!!!! Read......read.....read.

Way too much to type in here. Lots of research done by lots of us to get success.

If after reading a bunch and trying it you have question, let us know.

It DOES work very well in rifles and pistols. Lots of proof on here. Just read the posts.

Welcome to PC'ing......looks like you have been around here since '06?!?!?!? Where 'ya been???

bangerjim

[coffeeguy]

Long live powdercoating!!!! This is going to tick off a lot of purists, but so be it...First, I have no idea and don't care how close my alloy is to Lyman #2 or whatever. There are so many WW manufacturers, and no 'certified wheelweight alloy' standard that I know of...I do take the pains to hand-sort, pliers-test, and keep my melt below 650 F and have never had a problem with zinc contamination or having to add tin. I usually cast with half WW ingots and half lead (again, from scrap, so of course it's gonna vary), and get good results every time. I don't know, or care, what my BHN is, as long as I can get decent accuracy out of my loads. Woohoo!!! And, to top it off, (Yes, I know other lubes work just fine) I've spent a year powdercoating and shooting my boolits with no adverse effects to speak of. It's very forgiving where either my casting technique or alloy falls short, and since 99 percent of my shooting is just plinking or paper-punching, allows me to save the nit-pickiness for my hunting loads.

[Schrag4]

Pretty much what coffeeguy said. I shoot a fair bit indoors (IDPA) so I don't want the smoke that comes with traditional lubes, and I've been able to get really good results from powdercoating even though I'm entirely new to casting, and so far only using straight WW. I, too, suspect that the seasoned casters would look at newbie powder coaters like me with disdain since there's little reason for us to identify our alloys and their hardness. Powder coating is easy, and it just works.

+1 for banger's advice to read, read, read the stickies in the alternatives coatings forum. This site has been invaluable for me to get into casting in general, and then when I decided to try PC. Tons of info - invaluable resource.

[bigarm]

I only started casting this summer and powder coating at the same time. I had used coated bullets for a while, so it was natural to coat when I started casting. I love it. Little work, but seems to work good.

[shaper]

I have a powder coating shop. Just a little info sdcitizen may have not known. All powder is made to cure at a certain temp for a certain amount of time. It would be good to know that temp and time. You don't really care how high the temp gets in the oven. The temp of the item being powder coated is everything. For example. If the intended time and temp is 375 for 15 minutes, it means the temp of the item must get to 375 degrees, then start the clock for 15 minutes. If the part goes to 400 degrees, just keep it in the oven for only 10 minutes, same, same. If your oven will only get to 300 degrees, keep it in for 20 minutes. still the same.
What if it is a high humidity day? If it is raining out, I will put the item in the oven and just bring the temp of the item up so I can feel some warmth in it, then shoot the powder. The heat will make the powder stick on the item, then just put it back in the oven for the listed time and temp.
If you need more info just pm me and I'll send you my phone number.
shaper

[coffeeguy]

All powder is made to cure at a certain temp for a certain amount of time. It would be good to know that temp and time. You don't really care how high the temp gets in the oven. The temp of the item being powder coated is everything. ...
If you need more info just pm me and I'll send you my phone number.
shaper

Excellent info! I buy locally from a powdercoater, and I happened to ask for the datasheets on the samples I bought out of curiosity. With boolits and the methods I use, I have the best results with TGIC polyester PC, but even then there are different curing schedules. The emphasis on metal temperature, not oven temperature is critical too...Out of habit I've always been able to just bump up my curing temp/time by a small amount, say 10 degrees/5 minutes without any adverse effects, and it ensures that the PC is indeed fully cured. Occasionally I'll see a post here where folks are having curing problems, which leads to a mess in the barrel; when in doubt ask for the datasheet for the powder you use. Thanks, shaper, for that perspective!

[bangerjim]

I have found over baking many thousands of boolits, you MUST wait until the powder turns compeletly gloss on all the boolits in the oven before starting the timing. I use 400f for 10 min. Preheated convection oven.

My hammer test is to pound a slug on a 2" thick 4" diameter steel round from nose to base until it is about 1/4 it's normal size. Then turn it on the side and do the same. And again, until I end up with a little cube of lead with all the PC still on it! Now that's a hammer test!

Works for me. Every time.

banger

[shaper]

...Out of habit I've always been able to just bump up my curing temp/time by a small amount, say 10 degrees/5 minutes without any adverse effects, and it ensures that the PC is indeed fully cured. Occasionally I'll see a post here where folks are having curing problems, which leads to a mess in the barrel; when in doubt ask for the datasheet for the powder you use. Thanks, shaper, for that perspective![/QUOTE]


Most people do not know that all modern powders have some "over bake" protection built into the mixture. So don't get into a sweat over keeping it in the oven 2 or 3 minutes too long. My guess the people with curing problems is they just don't keep it in the oven long enough. Which would put uncured powder in your barrel, and that would not be good. To that I would say, go to Harbor Freight and buy a temp sensor gun. It's cheap insurance to know you have your items at the proper temp. I have two of them and I check the temp several times to make sure.
More on the uncured powder. If you do have uncured powder in your barrel, you're in deep doo doo.
I sometimes get in a job that already has powder coat on it. I have only seen one liquid paint stripper that will remove the old powder coat. I have to use a haz mat suite to use it and I don't think you want that in your rifle barrel. There are 2 other ways to remove the old powder coat, burn it off with a torch and sandblast. So the best choice is to make sure you do a full cure, or over bake, that's what I do.

[Blammer]

Is there a "carrier" you can add to the powder coating that lets it go on "wet" then dries so it won't rub off when handling, then you heat treat?

[shaper]

Yes there is. It's called "liquid 2 powder". It is a clear liquid, price runs somewhere around $45. per pint. I have used it and still have a pint in storage. It's been a while,. but I believe it is mixed 50/50 by weight. It takes a while to get the mixture just right so it will brush on without being grainy. Contact a company called powderbuythepound.com
The up side of this is you can powder coat wood, plastic, ceramics with it. If memory serves there is a class on how to use it.
Anything else I can help with just let me know.

[Doggonekid]

I have been casting for over 45 years, but I have only been PC for 1 month. I have found a big difference in the same brand of paint from one color to another. I have been using the electro static method with good success. I think I will try and pre heat my boolets to see if it makes a smoother coating. Most coatings look good until I look at them with my jewelers loupe. Ten power magnification makes me think not all powers are the same. Shooting my first pc boolets this coming Saturday. It will be interesting to see the results.

[shaper]

You are correct in saying all powders are not alike. Let me give you a little more info on powders
There are different kinds of powder companies. First are the manufacturers, there are just a few of these, companies like Dupont. They sell world wide. But they want to sell in large quantities. I have bought from them but it was $10. per pound and only a 60 pound box. They sell to other companies that are call box companies. The box company will also give the powder a different name and brand. So you may be using Dupont or another companies powder with the same seller name. This is where you would buy powder. This is where the difference in quality is. They buy the 60 pound box and repackage it in 5 pound boxes for $15. per pound. You need to do some research on the colors you like. I'll give you some company numbers that I have had business with.
Spraylat, in Texas I think. good to deal with, good qualities. 1-800-767-2335
TCI in S. Georgia. Will sell in smaller quantities. 1-800-533-9067
Tiger Drylac. world wide. expensive, (5 pounds for $138.) 1-800-243-8148
Dupont world wide. 1-800-247-3886
Prismatic Powders in Oregon, very high quality 541-826-1422
Powderbuythepound in Tenn. a box company. will sell small quantities
Powder365.com a box company just north of Atlanta, my primary distributor. will sell you 1/2 pound sample for testing. This company was put together by powder coaters who are still doing powder coating every day. If they don't like the powder they will not sell it. They have a forum where you can ask questions and a powder coater will give you an answer just like you are doing right now.
So ask the questions, it will only help in the quality of your product.
I hope this helps you to understanding the differences in powder.

[mdi]

IMO, PC doesn't "replace" lubing nekkid bullets, it's just an alternate process for the home caster. I'm still lubing (tumble and pan lube) and for me at least classic lubing still has it's place even though I PC a lot of bullets. I don't have "exact" alloys and have shot PC coated bullets nearly as fast as jacketed in my .44 Magnums, and I prefer to make my own decisions on what limits my bullets have. There's way, way to much info about PCing bullets to answer here so go to the Coatings and Alternatives sub-forum and set aside a full day for reading....