Ruger #1 in 45-70

[Frank46]

Morning all. I have a Ruger #1 in 45-70. As some of you are aware the throat in some of these rifles is almost non existent due to the close proximity of the rifling to the end of the chamber. PT&G sells a 45 caliber throating reamer for the 45-70 that cuts a throat for the bullet. I was wondering if anyone had done this, how it was done and what were your results. Since I don't hunt anymore this will be a paper puncher. As an aside the bore diameter at the beginning of the throat is .459. So I'm thinking I'm going to need a bullet mold that will cast out somewhere about .463 or somewhere in that area. Any information, comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks,Frank

[NSB]

Your throat was cut to the original specs for this cartridge. I own two Win/Miroku 45-70s and both have no throat to speak of. I took them both to Doug Turnbull and had them case color hardened and while they were there he cut the throat to the same size he does on the custom rifles he sells. He actually increased the length by almost .2500". Both of these guns were very accurate before he did this work and afterwards they were just as accurate. The 1886 will do five shots into 1.5" or less at 100yds and the High Wall shoots clover leafs at that same distance. It didn't make any difference in accuracy but it did allow me to use any bullet I wanted to and be able to seat it out as long as I like. Get it done!

[Chill Wills]

He actually increased the length by almost .2500". Both of these guns were very accurate before he did this work and afterwards they were just as accurate. The 1886 will do five shots into 1.5" or less at 100yds and the High Wall shoots clover leafs at that same distance. It didn't make any difference in accuracy but it did allow me to use any bullet I wanted to and be able to seat it out as long as I like. Get it done!

OK. Just looking to learn something here.
Given the rifles were accurate and still are and the 45-70 case has all the volume you can use for a smokeless load, you increased capacity to shoot Black powder (?) or seat any bullet you want as long as you like.

What is the longer seated bullet do?
Respectfully, Michael Rix

[W.R.Buchanan]

Chill: the issue was not seating the boolit out as far as he wanted so much as it was being able to use boolits with longer noses.

Most .45-70 Leverguns are limited to Rounds loaded to around 2.550 as a result the throats are cut to accommodate boolits that don't stick out of the case that far.

Some guns like 1886's will feed longer rounds however if the throat is cut short they won't chamber as the boolit runs into the rifling before the cartridge is all the way in the chamber. Lengthening the throat fixes this.

Also when shooting longer boolits in the 450-550 gr range (Bigger Balls than I have) these boolits are farther down inside the case when seated to chamber, and this cuts down on powder capacity dramatically. With the lengthened Throat the boolits can be seated further out thus increasing powder capacity.

In a Ruger #1 the idea would be to use those longer boolits since the gun is a single shot and you shouldn't be limited to using boolits designed for Leverguns.

Randy

[NSB]

Without the throat lengthened, some bullets with a blunt ogive would hit the rifling and not allow chambering. I found that even some 350g bullets would not allow the action to close. That's the problem with a throat cut to original specs. Turnbull eliminates this problem by lengthening the throat.

[Chill Wills]

OK, I see it is just a problem with certain bullet designs I have not run into. They must have fat noses. .451+
I shoot many different bullets or have shot many in my Singleshot 45's. All +500 grains. No problems with chambering them. The problem I do not like is long throated chambers in singleshots. I rather go to the next length case for more powder capacity (BP). If shooting smokeless, the 70 is a big case. More then enough for me. Even after I fill it with powder there is an echo in there.

Interesting about the 1886. I have found that in my '86's the origin of the rifling are often are too far forward for the bullet shoulder to engage even when seated out as far as the carrier will allow. I have played with maximum length and measured it but I do not have it with me at this writing. When I seat bullets for the '86 I do not use the crimp groove on bullets that have them like the 457-193 or RCBS 405 but rather I crimp them just behind the first driving band in the grease groove to give them less jump into the rifling.

-Michael Rix

[Frank46]

I bought a bunch of remington 300 grain bulk bullets sometime ago. I have to seat the bullet at the leading edge of the crimp groove. Any longer and they won't chamber. And I would like to use "fatter" cast bullets as the throat slugs out at .459. Thanks for the responses as they are appreciated. Frank

[NSB]

Frank46, I had the same trouble with the Rem 300g bulk bullets and when I tried Hornady 350g they wouldn't chamber at all. Long, pointy bullets would chamber but blunt bullets would not. For my use (hunting) I like to use 405g bullets and none of them would chamber without really squeezing the lever on my High Wall. I don't like the bullet "rammed" into the rifling and so I took it to Turnbull. Glad I did.

[Frank46]

NSB, was cruising the PGT site and came upon the 45-70 rifle throating reamer. Then I got to thinking. My groove diameter is .459 as stated. Most 45 caliber rifle bullets usually come in around .450 or slightly bigger. Which means the nose or bore riding section of the bullet really isn't doing anything and just goes along for the ride. It's the body section that does all the work. I'm going to take some 45/70 bullets and squash them and slug the barrel in front of the chamber and see what numbers i get. I've tried the lyman 485 grain gas check bullet but don't seem to get the accuracy that I think the rifle should be capable of. Maybe it's time for a fat 45 rifle bullet. Most 45 rifle bullets .457-8 in dia. What about guys who have 45-70's with larger than normal throat dimensions?. Frank

[NSB]

I slugged both of my guns and they were identical. I got .4575-.4579. I ended up using .459 bullets and they worked very well. I've gotten several five shot groups under an inch at 100yds.

[photomicftn]

I have a Ruger No. 1-S .45-70 made in 1978 that will chamber just about anything, even the blunt Lyman 462560 550gr FPGC.

Randy Garrett said this was called a "ballseat" throating when I called to see if his Hammerhead rounds would work in my rifle. I'm not sure when they discontinued it and went to the short throat.

[NSB]

saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Rifle/45-70 Government.pdf