Need a Smith to Ream Cylinder

[ACrowe25]

Bought a 45 ACP/Colt Ruger blackhawk for my father awhile ago, as I was sick of him shooting up my brass and not picking them up with semi-autos LOL.

Anyways, it comes in and I'm all excited to shoot it, take it to the range and my 200 gr. LSWC won't fit. They fit, if I push em but without the push the cylinder won't rotate. Factory ball ammo (230 gr. WWB) fit, but clearly snug.

I'm thinking the cylinders are just too small on the 45 ACP. So, I know I can do it myself but A.) I don't trust myself, B.) Unfortunately barely any time to cast/load at the moment.

Who is someone reputable with this type of stuff that can open them up to proper size? I've read accounts about people having the same issue, sending them to Ruger, and come back as "in spec". Don't want to waste the time and would rather just pay someone and have it done right.

If you don't like posting names/contact info in a thread, feel free to PM. But would like to get many's opinions before shipping my fathers cylinder off to someone.

As always guys, thanks.

[square butte]

User Name DougGuy - He is a member here

[paul h]

In the mean time you could just seat the bullets a bit deeper so that they properly fit the cylinder.

I noted the same thing on my wifes 45 convertable, acp ammo is a snug fit in the cylinder and sans a good push to seat them the cylinder will bind up. On the flip side, it seems to be very accurate and my mantra with an accurate gun is don't mess with it.

[ACrowe25]

I shoot 1911's 95% of the time, not a chance I'm changing up ammo just to feed that revolver (as I load progressive) lol. This gun was bought exclusively so my father didn't have to pick up brass and so it could be feed what I feed my 1911's lol.

[FlatTop45LC]

I sent my 45 Colt cylinder to DougGuy yesterday.

His prices are more than fair.

[Nueces]

DougGuy has done two Ruger 45s for me, a recent Flat Top and an old model. Both came back in perfect trim. I recommend him.

[dubber123]

DougGuy again. Inexpensive, good and fast. I was very happy with mine.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

DougGuy just reamed my SBH cylinder, now for the first time I can load and chamber RCBS 44-250-K boolits without having to seat over the driving band.

[Wasalmonslayer]

Another plug for Doug he throated a 1911 barrel for me and it turned out prefect. And it shoots lights out now!!!
Wasalmonslayer

[DougGuy]

Thank yas fellas, glad to be able to help.. Y'all are too nice!

Now..


In the mean time you could just seat the bullets a bit deeper so that they properly fit the cylinder.

I noted the same thing on my wifes 45 convertable, acp ammo is a snug fit in the cylinder and sans a good push to seat them the cylinder will bind up. On the flip side, it seems to be very accurate and my mantra with an accurate gun is don't mess with it.

Any time you seat deeper, you lessen case volume and raise load density. Without reducing the powder charge to compensate for a shorter COA, this is the same thing as when a 1911 slide picks up a round and strips it from the magazine but rams it into the feed ramp on the way to the chamber, and sets the boolit back a good notch, and all of a sudden, without explanation, KA-BOOM, bulged barrel, rounds in top of the magazine detonate sending splinters of grips and pieces of brass and lead fragments into the shooter's hands, face, forehead, and spraying anyone else around with shrapnel.

This of course would be a worse case scenario but it has happened more than once and right here on this very forum there are several accounts of a KB which all evidence points to boolit setback as the main culprit in an ordinarily perfectly tuned 1911.

If it won't go into the chamber without force, it is time to stop and look why, not force it until it will shoot.

Seating depth is listed in not only SAAMI specs but all published load data as well, because seating depth is critical to staying within safe pressures or straying into the danger zone. Also, throat diameter if it is smaller than the boolit diameter, can dramatically increase pressures upon firing, because the resistance of shoving a boolit of a given size through a throat that is smaller, in some cases can be as much as 5kpsi! If you are already at a max or near max load, this could be catastrophic. Not likely, but it is the same as firing a live round through a known obstruction.

In short, you should NOT alter COA without lessening the powder charge accordingly, but overall this is just creating a second problem to compensate for the first when you cannot chamber a loaded round that is for all intent and purposes, within SAAMI spec for the caliber.

If you cannot push a loaded round of .45 ACP into the cylinder throat from the front, until the case mouth seats on the cylinder, then the throat is too small. Accuracy is not gained by forcing a .452" boolit through a .4505" throat, rather it is lost when the now sized to .4505" boolit enters the .451" barrel.

Addressing cylinder throats in a revolver improves accuracy in two ways.

First and foremost, ALL of the throats are now the same size, which greatly improves consistent ignition pressures, which has a direct effect on point of impact. Tight throats generate higher pressures, which in turn causes the recoil impulse to raise the muzzle to a different position than a properly sized or oversize throat, which shoots to a different point of aim. Simple as that. If you weigh every charge for critical hunting ammo, and you have the same amount of case neck tension and same amount of crimp, you will shoot really good groups being all factors that control how the gun recoils in the shooter's hands are now brought into consistency for every shot. This is why having the throats even in diameter is important, even moreso than their size in relation to the barrel.

The second way proper cylinder throats help accuracy is that they don't downsize the boolit as it is fired, insuring a good seal in the bore when the boolit arrives there.

I have never seen an instance where opening up a throat to .4525" and shooting a .452" boolit through it led to a degraded performance and worse accuracy than shooting the .452" boolit through a .450" or .4505" or even a .451" cylinder throat.

Every time the throat diameter is set correctly by reaming to proper size, and boolits are sized at least small enough to go through the throat with finger pressure, accuracy has increased but I think the thing that improved the most of all, is shooter satisfaction...

[BigAl52]

Another plug for Doug guy. He did mine same gun. I dont know what your oal is of your 1911 ammo but mine would fit fine with an aol of 1.250 before I sent it to Doug. Im speaking here about the 230 gr ball ammo. Al

[DougGuy]

Thank yas fellas, glad to be able to help.. Y'all are too nice!

Now..


In the mean time you could just seat the bullets a bit deeper so that they properly fit the cylinder.

I noted the same thing on my wifes 45 convertable, acp ammo is a snug fit in the cylinder and sans a good push to seat them the cylinder will bind up. On the flip side, it seems to be very accurate and my mantra with an accurate gun is don't mess with it.

Any time you seat deeper, you lessen case volume and raise load density. Without reducing the powder charge to compensate for a shorter COA, this is the same thing as when a 1911 slide picks up a round and strips it from the magazine but rams it into the feed ramp on the way to the chamber, and sets the boolit back a good notch, and all of a sudden, without explanation, KA-BOOM, bulged barrel, rounds in top of the magazine detonate sending splinters of grips and pieces of brass and lead fragments into the shooter's hands, face, forehead, and spraying anyone else around with shrapnel.

This of course would be a worse case scenario but it has happened more than once and right here on this very forum there are several accounts of a KB which all evidence points to boolit setback as the main culprit in an ordinarily perfectly tuned 1911.

If it won't go into the chamber without force, it is time to stop and look why, not force it until it will shoot.

Seating depth is listed in not only SAAMI specs but all published load data as well, because seating depth is critical to staying within safe pressures or straying into the danger zone. Also, throat diameter if it is smaller than the boolit diameter, can dramatically increase pressures upon firing, because the resistance of shoving a boolit of a given size through a throat that is smaller, in some cases can be as much as 5kpsi! If you are already at a max or near max load, this could be catastrophic. Not likely, but it is the same as firing a live round through a known obstruction.

In short, you should NOT alter COA without lessening the powder charge accordingly, but overall this is just creating a second problem to compensate for the first when you cannot chamber a loaded round that is for all intent and purposes, within SAAMI spec for the caliber.

If you cannot push a loaded round of .45 ACP into the cylinder throat from the front, until the case mouth seats on the cylinder, then the throat is too small. Accuracy is not gained by forcing a .452" boolit through a .4505" throat, rather it is lost when the now sized to .4505" boolit enters the .451" barrel.

Addressing cylinder throats improves accuracy in two ways.

First and foremost, ALL of the throats are now the same size, which greatly improves consistent ignition pressures, which has a direct effect on point of impact. Tight throats generate higher pressures, which in turn causes the recoil impulse to raise the muzzle to a different position than a properly sized or oversize throat, which shoots to a different point of aim. Simple as that. If you weigh every charge for critical hunting ammo, and you have the same amount of case neck tension and same amount of crimp, you will shoot really good groups being all factors that control how the gun recoils in the shooter's hands are now brought into consistency for every shot. This is why having the throats even in diameter is important, even moreso than their size in relation to the barrel.

The second way proper cylinder throats help accuracy is that they don't downsize the boolit as it is fired, insuring a good seal in the bore when the boolit arrives there.

I have never seen an instance where opening up a throat to .4525" and shooting a .452" boolit through it led to a degraded performance and worse accuracy than shooting the .452" boolit through a .450" or .4505" or even a .451" cylinder throat.

Every time the throat diameter is set correctly by reaming to proper size, and boolits are sized at least small enough to go through the throat with finger pressure, accuracy has increased but I think the thing that improved the most of all, is shooter satisfaction...

[ACrowe25]

Shipping them out this weekend. Got that done in a hurry! lol

[ACrowe25]

Thanks again guys.

[Groo]

Groo here
Is this a new gun?
If so the chambers are tight if factory is a snug fit.
If used,clean the chambers well and check again.

[DougGuy]

Groo, they make them tight from the factory. Some of the throats are smaller than a .451" j word. Rugers in .45 caliber are well known for this. It's not residue, it's how it's made.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Mischief managed, by the sound of things, as you are in touch with a gunsmith used to the work. Naturally you pay for a small slice of the tool, but if you use a smith for whom this kind of job is only occasional, you can find yourself paying for a large slice of the tool.

What we haven't heard is just what was hindering the final movement of the cartridge. If it was diametric size of chamber and brass, a close fitting chamber is in most circumstances an extremely good thing to have. It should be enlarged as little as will do the job, and only if careful cleaning of the chamber doesn't do it. To receive a new Ruger and ammunition, frequent chamber cleaning is a small price to pay. The alternative is that the front of the bullet is meeting the incline from chamber to throat.

Alternatively I can understand unwillingness to make up special ammunition for this gun when much of it will be fired in those 1911s. But if you are willing to size bullets, I can't believe Ruger would make a revolver requiring them to be small enough to perform at all worse in a 1911. All the OP's ammunition being Ruger-size seems pretty harmless.

There alternatives to reaming which might work, and be particularly appealing in legislations where a complete revolver is difficult to mail. Those cylinder hones, like a miniature version of the centrifugal hones used on automobile cylinders, could make a small diameter adjustment, although you must be careful not to let them increase headspace if a rimless round headspaces on the neck. But maybe it is the rear of the case body that is sticking. (I have only used them on a lightly pitted shotgun bore.) Alternatively a case or bullet could be used with fine abrasive to lap the chamber. I would rather use an electric screwdriver to do this, as a high speed drill may vibrate enough to make the chamber out of round.

[DougGuy]

What we haven't heard is just what was hindering the final movement of the cartridge. If it was diametric size of chamber and brass, a close fitting chamber is in most circumstances an extremely good thing to have.

What hinders the seating of the cartridge, is that a huge majority of these .44 and .45 caliber revolvers are made with cylinder throats smaller than groove diameter of the bore. Ruger .45 caliber bores are very consistent, right at .451" but cylinder throats are often .4505" or .450" I am sure anyone with 3rd grade mathmatics skills can understand that this presents the boolit to the bore undersized. Not good at all.




Alternatively I can understand unwillingness to make up special ammunition for this gun when much of it will be fired in those 1911s. But if you are willing to size bullets, I can't believe Ruger would make a revolver requiring them to be small enough to perform at all worse in a 1911. All the OP's ammunition being Ruger-size seems pretty harmless.

Again, why create a second problem to compensate for the first? Ream the cylinder throats so proper ammunition will chamber and fire reliably, safely, and accurately. Don't understand the problem? Read my first paragraph again.



There alternatives to reaming which might work, and be particularly appealing in legislations where a complete revolver is difficult to mail. Those cylinder hones, like a miniature version of the centrifugal hones used on automobile cylinders, could make a small diameter adjustment, although you must be careful not to let them increase headspace if a rimless round headspaces on the neck. But maybe it is the rear of the case body that is sticking. (I have only used them on a lightly pitted shotgun bore.) Alternatively a case or bullet could be used with fine abrasive to lap the chamber. I would rather use an electric screwdriver to do this, as a high speed drill may vibrate enough to make the chamber out of round.

Mail just the cylinder. Problem solved. The alternative to reaming is a guy who goes out in his shed and fits sandpaper to a wooden dowel, chucks it up in a drill and goes at it until the boolits fit. Too bad if the chamber comes out oval, egg shaped, belled, uneven from one to another. Had you ever actually done any of this work yourself, you would already know that there isn't a brake cylinder hone made small enough to fit in a revolver cylinder throat. Anybody that owns a Sunnen hone with small mandrels certainly isn't going to undertake honing cylinder throats for the very affordable fee that I charge to do them. One very well regarded smith who uses a hone for this charges over 4x my price for the work, and the only difference besides a very long wait time, is a slightly smoother finish which makes absolutely no improvement over the final honing I do. If it did, I would polish mine to the same degree of finish, and double the prices charged.

The way to do this, the only way to do this right, is to use a precision piloted reamer. Forget being a kitchen table gunsmith on Saturday morning mucking up a cylinder to save spending $30 + shipping when you can have precision work done right, in short order. The reamer makes the throats ROUND. Ruger is notorious for oval chamber throats, not all of them but you can expect to see 20% of their throats with some degree of out-of-round. The reamer makes the throats EVEN in size from one to another. This causes the pressures of ignition to be much more consistent, which directly affects point of impact of the boolit because it affects the amount of recoil that moves the gun in the shooter's hands.

The ones that get me are the guys who will buy the $75 reamer, and won't buy the $50 pilot kit because it costs too much, now they got a .448" pilot that fits into even the tightest cylinder throat with a rattle, and they start cutting randomly wherever the flutes of the reamer dig in and take a cut, and afterwards you can see the cut the reamer made, oh but what's this shadow over here on half the throat? Why it's still a bit of the original throat left uncut because all the slop that would have been taken up by that $50 pilot kit that they didn't buy let the reamer start a cut off center of the chamber. Pretty much wrecking the cylinder permanently. Oh but they saved $50 by not buying the pilot kit. And they spent $75 plus shipping on a reamer that they used to ruin a perfectly good cylinder instead of sending it to a guy who does this work day in and day out, for $30 bucks.. Shaking my head.

Why settle for the alternatives when you can have accurate, precision work for less than the price of a pair of Made In China grips.

[Geezer in NH]

Bought a 45 ACP/Colt Ruger blackhawk for my father awhile ago, as I was sick of him shooting up my brass and not picking them up with semi-autos LOL.

Anyways, it comes in and I'm all excited to shoot it, take it to the range and my 200 gr. LSWC won't fit. They fit, if I push em but without the push the cylinder won't rotate. Factory ball ammo (230 gr. WWB) fit, but clearly snug.

I'm thinking the cylinders are just too small on the 45 ACP. So, I know I can do it myself but A.) I don't trust myself, B.) Unfortunately barely any time to cast/load at the moment.

Who is someone reputable with this type of stuff that can open them up to proper size? I've read accounts about people having the same issue, sending them to Ruger, and come back as "in spec". Don't want to waste the time and would rather just pay someone and have it done right.

If you don't like posting names/contact info in a thread, feel free to PM. But would like to get many's opinions before shipping my fathers cylinder off to someone.

As always guys, thanks. I recommend RUGER, They will help

[9.3X62AL]

I used a piloted reamer to hone the grossly undersized throats in my BisHawk 45 Colt. I finish-polished the final diameter to .453", the grooves in this 1995 revolver were .452". It shoots .454" bullets wonderfully. I had Buckshot available to coach the effort, and things came out well. If I have it to do again, I will seek out Doug Guy's services, for the same reason I have Buckshot make up my oddball H&I sizers and M-die spuds--I don't mind paying for highly-skilled craftsmanship, and I know my own skill limits. I was quite lucky with my BisHawk cylinder.

[kevmc]

Just got my SW 657 cylinder back from DougGuy, highly recommend his work!!
Quick service, fair price and work was first rate!!

[wildwilly501]

Thumbs up, Five stars to DougGuy Got my cylinder back today great work great price.