L&R Lock Quality

[condorjohn]

I have a Lyman GPR and am thinking about replacing the factory lock with a L&R Flintlock.
I've been reading on google about some quality issues with these locks but, they all seem to be older posts from 2005 to 2008. Have they cleaned up their act or were these negitive comments just rare cases?

[Boogieman]

I've been shooting M/L for 40 yr. & have never heard of any major problems with L&R locks. I've got one on a 54cal flinter I built , Late English flint. it's fast & dependable. like most production locks they can use a little tuning. Some folks would gripe if you hung them with a brand new rope. My Lyman GPR lock is getting loose too,after 8000+ rounds need to replace or bush the bridle.

[dlbarr]

I have an L&R lock on one of my MLs and it's very fast. Was a real improvement over the former lock. They are probably not the very best available, but they don't cost $250-300 either. A quality lock for the money IMHO.

[DIRT Farmer]

If you want to start a fight around thecamp fire just ask which is the best lock. As a rule I like a big lock, big frizzen and big flint equal a lot of sparks. I have had one failure with one L&R, snaped the hammer mount on the tumbler. This gun is on it's second frizzen, wore out the first one after having it reshaped and hardened a few times, over the last 10 to 15 thousand or maby a lot more shots, I have been shooting this gun since 2001 and two matches account for 1000 shots a year. I guess I could complain but I just put a new tumbler in and finished the match.
My next project will most likely use a right and left Manton from Jim Chambers. It involves a set of 410 barrels.

[Lead Fred]

90% of the custom builders in my hood use L&R locks. When I got my Chamber's lock they all laughed. A L&R lock needs parts, you callem up, and its in the mail jiffy quick. You need a part for a Chamber's lock, you mail it to them and wait.
Both are very high quality.

I bet them complaints come from flat landers who have no idea how to use a flinter

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I have a Lyman GPR and am thinking about replacing the factory lock with a L&R Flintlock.
I've been reading on google about some quality issues with these locks but, they all seem to be older posts from 2005 to 2008. Have they cleaned up their act or were these negitive comments just rare cases?

Just what OTHER lock would you use to replace the Lyman GPR ? Have you spoken to L & R as to their warranty? Have you researched lock matters at americanlongrifles dot org? They are the equivalent of cast boolits in this kind of specific issue.

Why google? the company exploiting all of us for money?

BvT

[Maven]

I have a Lyman GPR and am thinking about replacing the factory lock with a L&R Flintlock.
I've been reading on google about some quality issues with these locks but, they all seem to be older posts from 2005 to 2008. Have they cleaned up their act or were these negitive comments just rare cases?

Based on what I've read on the Traditional ML Forum and the ALR Forum, L & R seems to have overcome the problems you mentioned and has been quite willing to repair problems with their locks. As for the need to replace the GPR lock, you may want to look up E[rnie] Biggs' posts on improving the GPR lock in the Traditional ML Forum's archives. It's relatively easy to do and hugely less expensive than purchasing a new lock, and it involves no wood removal to boot.

[oldracer]

I have two L&R locks, one in a Leigh percussion long rifle and another in a Scheutzen type slug gun. They are different as the one in the slug gun has a much shorter hammer throw with more force while the Lehigh one is a copy of the old fashioned ones. Both have worked great. I got them from Muzzle Loaders Builder Supply and also Pecatonica River Supply and folks at both companies are very knowledgeable about them.

[condorjohn]

Just what OTHER lock would you use to replace the Lyman GPR ? Have you spoken to L & R as to their warranty? Have you researched lock matters at americanlongrifles dot org? They are the equivalent of cast boolits in this kind of specific issue.

Why google? the company exploiting all of us for money?

BvT

To answer your questions: I don't know, No, No and It's what I have.

Hope that answers your questions. Thanks for the ideas...

[condorjohn]

Thanks for the feed-back folks...

[fouronesix]

I don't have one but a shooting buddy has 2-3. He's never mentioned any problems with them. He knows how to tune a flinter and his L&Rs are fast and reliable. I haven't a clue as to how easy or hard the re-fit to the Lyman rifle will be?? The trigger has to fit and the lock assembly has to line up correctly with the barrel and touch hole. I would explore the idea of tuning the existing lock first to see if it can be improved enough.

[KCSO]

L and R had at one time a minor problem with spring temper and i had to send 3 springs back to L and R and they were cheerfully replaced. I have used the lock you are considering and have just put one on a friends rifle. No problems and nice fast ignition and reliable in wet weather. As good as the best locks of the old days and way better than a coil spring lock.

[Omnivore]

I have two L&R percussion locks and they both seem perfectly good. Strong springs. Good tumblers, with a fly. The second one I just got and installed in a percussion GPR.

Specific to the GPR replacement lock, there are some issues. First; the L&R replacement for the GPR requires significant additional inletting, in a stock that, in my opinion is already over-inletted. You end up removing more wood from what is already a weak spot in the stock. The reason is that the original GPR lock uses coil springs, which operate on a very linear basis, whereas the leaf springs, both main and sear, need room to swing, plus they are deeper into the stock.

The L&R bolster is much longer, and so I had to lengthen the bolster cutout substantially toward the back, underneath the highest portion of the stock next to the tang, leaving an over-hang of wood over the rear of the bolster.

To get the bolster in against the barrel, where it's supposed to be, I had to deepen the lockplate overall, which means I'll be narrowing the lock panel area of the stock.

The bolster, at least on my particular L&R GPR replacement lock, has a slight taper to it, resulting in the lock plate being deeper in the back than in the front, resulting in tapered lock panels, like some of the Hawken lock panels that are wider in front and narrower in back. The original GPR lock plate is parallel to the bore.

Also, the GPR coil spring lockplate has its own separate little "bolster" for the lock screw that comes through from the off-side of the stock. The L&R replacement, due to its leaf spring design, does not have room for such a feature, and so they put the lock screw threads on the bridle, i.e. rather than having the lock retention screw threaded directly into the plate, it's threaded into the tumbler bridle. Not an ideal design, but it works.

In short; the L&R lock is of good quality, but as a replacement for the original GPR lock, well, WHY? The replacement lock works just as well as the original, but requires substantial additional wood removal under the plate. I got this lock because I had no lock at all to begin with, as this is a build from parts that I've had lying around for some years. The L&R will look a little "cooler" in that it has the vertical moldings near the back of the plate, and it'll be a tapered lock panel as opposed to the boringly predictable parallel lock panels.

Again; I'm talking about the percussion system. However I have no doubt that the issues are at least similar in the flint version.

Finally; in my way of thinking at least, one of the reasons, if not the main reason, to replace the lock in a GPR would be to improve the wood-to-metal fit, because the inletting in the Lyman guns is rather poor, i.e. there are substantial gaps around the lockplate. The L&R replacement for the GPR does not address this, meaning that there is just as much gap around the lockplate as ever, if not more. I intend to “glass bed” the entire lock for that reason, because for one thing, as was mentioned in an above post, the lockplate can loosen and wobble over time if it’s not fit right & tight. If they’d make the plate just a tad larger around the perimeter, then I’d say you have a reason to use. Otherwise, although the L&R locks are of high quality, I don’t see much point in the case of the GPR, and it could be argued that you’re better off with the original.

[Geezer in NH]

Don't know about replacements but I have made 50+ rifles/smooth bores with their locks, I have adjusted the main springs but the IMHO are Great!

[heelerau]

Mate I replaced my 1960s Russ Hamm lock which was very poor with a RPL lock by L and R, had it tuned by a bloke in Minnesota, and with some minor fiddling about fitted in nicely. It sparks as well as my Jim Chambers and Siler locks. I am very happy with the quality and has been said parts are in stock. I asked this same question some months ago and have had a very positive result re the quality, as I am down under it is longer to wait if I had bought a dud.

cheers

Heelerau