Tricked out Henry 30-30

[birch]

Well, I know many of you will have opinions on why I should not do this such as--much better calibers, never a levergun, blah, blah, blah,

I really don't want to hear from a bunch of people telling me why I shouldnt. I really want to hear from people with real world experience shooting one hole groups with a 30-30 at 100 yards.

I love shooting paper--A long time ago, I had a crappy old scope on this 30-30 and someone else handloads, and I was shooting cloverleafs at 100 yards. I wanted better mounts and a better scope and ended up getting a screw stuck in the receiver--long story short--I have not shot it in a couple of years and a good friend got the screw out.

Now, I want to put a 500 dollar scope, a nice set of one piece rings, do a trigger job, and experiment with some pointed bullets loaded singly into the chamber.

I am only looking for anyone who has attempted benchrest with the 30-30 out to 350 yards or so. Only people with experience. I can hit a bean can with my 513t and redfield sights 9 out of 10 time at 250 yards on a calm day with bulk .22 ammo, so I really dont want to hear those who say it cant be done.

If you feel the need to hi-jack this thread--please start your own thread that gives the reasons on why a 30-30 is a piss-poor choice for benchrest--not here

Only positive experiences need write on this post.

Thank you
Casey

[GhostHawk]

Nothing wrong with what you have chosen in my opinion. I think you could do the same thing with a single shot H&R 30-30 for 1/3 the money.

But hey, its your money, your time, your attitude.

[bigarm]

I am no help as I am just getting into the lever guns, but I am looking forward to your work and results. I think it sounds fun.

[starmac]

Well if he has the henry, how much would he save by getting a h&r??

Go for it. I have never tried a 30/30 at that range, and don't even do the bench rest thing, but keep us posted on what you come up with.

[williamwaco]

Go for it.

The .30-30 is an excellent cartridge for target shooting with cast bullets.

I have a TC contender with the heavy 23" bbl that will occasionally do .5" but average is around 1.25". That is with a Nikon 16x variable.

I have seen the Savage 99 shoot clover leafs but never seen that with any other brand lever. That said, I don't know anyone who has ever tried it.

I would love to see you make a continuing thread reporting your trials and results.

[Artful]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?57711-A-match-built-lever-gun

One of the best articles on accurizing the lever-action rifles are:

Lever Action Rifles by C. H. Helbig and P. B. Cain from the 19th edition of the Gun Digest, 1965. This is a good article with specific recommendations and accuracy results. The Winchester Model 94, 88, Savage model 99 and the Marlin 336 were used for the article.

M. L. McPherson book:
Accurizing the Factory Rifle is a good read and will give you many hours of enjoyable reading and dreaming.

Bob Heiderick wrote:
How To tune Leveraction Rifles for the June 1977 issue of Shooting Times Magazine and it is worth looking for but not worth the price asked by some used magazine dealers.

If you are working with a Marlin and Microgroove rifling you need Beartooth forum member C. E. Harris article: Marlins Micro Groove Barrels Will Perform from the July 1982 issue of the American Rifleman. This is the most informative of several articles on microgroove rifling and is worth looking for. All articles which followed this one have little that is new or different so this is the article to look for.

A good article with a realistic discussion of accuracy is:
The Model 94 and the 30-30 by Sam Fadala for the 40th Edition of the Gun Digest, 1986.

For articles on loading for and shooting the lever-action rifles and the 30-30 cartridge specifically - there are many such articles around - you only really need to hunt up a few.

Dave Scovill wrote: Loading and Shooting Lever-actions, What Makes Them Tick for the October 1998 issue of Handloader and he gives some very good advice.

Wayne Blackwell wrote:
Cast Bullet Accuracy With a Bolt Action 30-30 for Handloader October 1976.
This article is worth looking for.

Upgrading the 30-30 by Frank Marshal in the 9th Edition of the Handloaders Digest, 1982, is worth looking for also.

H.V. Stent wrote:
The Winchester Model 94 for the 34th Edition of the Gun Digest, 1980
and it has a good bit of information on loading accurate cartridges for the lever-action rifles.

Ron Carmichal wrote:
Cast Bullets at Full Speed for the August 1995 issue of Handloader magazine
and this is probably one of the best articles written about wringing the best performance
from the 30-30 cartridge using cast bullets in a lever-action rifle.

R. H. Vandenberg Jr. wrote:
Heavy bullets in the 30-30 Winchester for the 18th Edition of the Handloaders Digest.
This is a pretty good article with information on using the
180-grain Speer Grand Slam bullet in the 30-30.

Have you seen these links?
http://www.levergun.com/articles/Race_Tuning.htm

http://www.rangerpointprecision.com/#!Accurizing-the-Marlin-Lever-Action-Rifle/c1dx6/A1FDA25A-7B4D-4F4E-BBA4-8FB116515549

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/chapter23.htm

[osteodoc08]

Great info Artful! I appreciate it as well.

[sghart3578]

Hey man, we are with you all the way.

In the early 80's I was stationed in Colorado. As youngsters we didn't have all of the pre-conceived notions of what would work and what wouldn't work. I happened to hang out with guys that loved to shoot long distances. One guy had a 22-250, one guy had a 30.06, one guy had a Winchester 94 in 30-30, another had a 270 and I had my first mil-surp, a $75 Turkish 8mm Mauser from Big 5 in Bakersfield CA.

We set up 55 gal drums full of rocks at 300, 400 and 500 yards behind Rocky Mountain Arsenal. While spotting for each other we would "walk in" the rounds artillery style.


One weekend the guy with the 30-30 shows up with a scope on it. He got it adjusted and routinely hit the barrels at every distance. None of us reloaded but I remember being impressed. After all, the 30-30 is just a short range brush gun, right?

The Remington 788 in 30-30 is a tackdriver to 200 yards. I know, I used to own one. (Divorce is great isn't it?) I suspect the only reason that you never hear about 30-30's at 500 yards is because most people assume it is a waste of time and that lever guns are inherently inaccurate.

I say, good for you for taking this on. Keep us posted. I'm sure there are a lot of guys here eager to here your progress.

P.S. As you can tell I am a 30-30 fan. My Marlin Texan is a shooter and it was easy to find the right loads with the help of the guys on this forum. But you have got me thinking about my next project. Maybe it's time to find a lever in 30-30 or 32 Win. with a 24" or longer barrel, tang sights, etc. and start blasting drums at ungodly ranges. My grandkids are now old enough to spot for me. Ha!

Best of luck!

[starmac]

This is a long thread on the subject, but worth reading.
Some of the members have stretched the 30/30 out for sure.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?168244-30-30-Maximum-Distance-With-Accuracy

[birch]

Many thanks to all who responded--especially Artful for his detailed suggestions of which I have already started to track down. Starmac and sghart as well.

I am going to my local gunshop here in a few minutes to look for the one piece mount that is suggested by many of the experts listed in this post. I will Start a thread once I get the right "tools" to make this happen.

For some who are wondering why I have chosen a Henry 30-30 as an experiment gun--My wife bought me that gun when I graduated from college. To me, that gun and those left to me when my old man passed away are really the only ones that matter. I can drill, tap, grind, and take any monetary value away from that gun and it will still be worth the same to me.


Thanks again to all who have posted, and if anyone has any other ideas, please post or PM them to me. I can transform this gun in any way, so all ideas will be considered.

Take Care and Happy Holidays,
Casey

[Char-Gar]

The 30-30 round is one of the very best for cast bullet paper punching. I have a Browning 1895 (single shot) Traditional Hunter in 30-30 that will shoot true 10 shot MOA cast bullet groups with no particular effort. I have only fired out to 200 yards and the accuracy holds up at that distance. Accuracy limitations will be determined by the rifle and not the cartridge.

[snaketail]

I was never able to get my 30-30 to make one-hole groups with cast bullets. However, with 130gr Speer jacketed bullets and 26.5gr of 3031 I did get one hole groups at 50 yards. I use the rifle for Lever Action Silhouette and won the "A" class Texas State Match with this load (130gr for Chickens, Pigs and Turkeys then 170gr for Rams).

Now, there will probably a bunch of people tell you why jacketed bullets are bad. So as an alternative I offer you cast and coated bullets from Missouri Bullet Company http://www.missouribullet.com/results.php?category=6&secondary=36
I plan to try their 135gr soon. Looks like it might be a winner. I have only used the Hi-Tek bullets in my 25-20 and performance was not one-hole, but I could see potential was there.

Michael

[birch]

Michael, congratulations on the state championship. That must have been a good night of celebration!
I live in Northern Michigan and unfortunatly, there are not that many clubs up here that offer much in terms of competitions. I mostly compete with myself or my wife--I sometimes have to let her get one in on me just to keep her interested--Every time a bell rings an angel gets its wings (I think Pavlov used a bell--didnt he?).

On a side note--I went to the local gun shop to find a one piece scope mount. I thought a Marlin 336 would be the same as the Henry, but the receiver is just a little longer--I have to order a Henry one piece mount directly from the company. It is a start though.

I have a 130gr .309 that will be given a shot.

[JSH]

I am a marlin guy. The one marlin I have that is a standard cut rifling rather than micro shoots exceptionally well. AA2520, SR4759 and AA5744 are my go to powders. This particular gun is not drilled and tapped so it has been all iron sights.
As mentioned the 30-30 is a good cb case to work with. I have way more trigger and load work done with my 14" scoped TC than any other 30-30 I own. It took me over a year to get it all right where it would shoot MOA@100 on demand, not just once. As to my knowledge I am the first one in Kansas to shoot a 40x40 in UASHS with cast bullets. Case sizing and bullet sizing and seating are the three S's that I followed. They all have their quirks and some are not easy to figure out and others may be fixed by accident.
I wouldn't try to force feed it what it doesn't like or want. I tried everything I was told would work with no luck. I ended up using what I was told would be hard to work with and it was the one the gun liked.
I look forward to your work reports. I am one of the few that has not run out and bought a couple more kegs of SR4759. It's on its way out so it is time to find a new powder to replace it.
I am thinking maybe xbr8208 or hybrid 100v to tinker with in the 30-30. AA5744 shoots well but not excellent in the 30-30 in my findings.
I still laugh about the comment from one of the gun rag gurus that said trail boss was a good replacement for 4759!
jeff

[FergusonTO35]

My cheapo Glenfield 30 will print 5/8-3/4 groups at 100 yards with its pet load in spite of its 40 lb. trigger pull and the miserable marksman behind the stock. I see no reason why a tricked out Henry couldn't do even better.

[birch]

I think the trigger on my gun is going to be one of the hardest obstacles to overcome. I think the Hammer/sear can be stoned for a nicer and crisper break, but the Henry uses a transfer bar safety much like a ruger. It slides into place as long as the trigger is pulled.

I think (not sure yeet until I stone and polish everthing) that I am going to do away with the sliding transfer bar safety by disconnecting and tig welding the transfer bar in a permanant upright postion.

By the way, I have gotten a few PM's of Glenfield/Marlin owners who consistantly get .5 inch 100 yard groups with their firearms. It seems that that gets a little inconsistant after 200 yards--which is why I am thinking about the 30AI. I know my henry will make cloverleafs with a fixed 4x Weaver. I am thinking that good glass and scope mounts shold tighten that up a little.

[rintinglen]

I don't know about consistent .5 inch groups, but I have seen several Marlins and one Winchester shoot 5 shot groups that ran well under two inches at 100 yards, with several groups clearly down around 1 inches. And save for the Winchester, I strongly suspect that better shooters would produce better results. That afternoon was an eye opener for me. I had not thought the old "thutty-thutty" capable of shooting that well. You should be able to easily get to the 1-2 moa area. After that, it'll get harder, but I an sure you can get good groups out a heck of a lot farther than most would credit. I am looking forward to following your experiments.

[FergusonTO35]

I should clarify that the average group size for my Glenfield 30 is around 1.25 at 100 yards from a bench rest. It does go under 1" with frightening regularity though. I think that group might get even smaller now that I'm using IMR 4064. Last few times I shot it at 50 yards I could make 'em touch!

[birch]

I just bought a Weaver one piece mount yesterday, but after doing some research, I think I am going to buy the Leupold one piece with dovetail front and windage adj. rear. It seems that I can also buy a hammer extension and run low scope mounts with a 40mm objective if i take my front sight off--with the leupold mount.

[birddog]

Years back a fellow by the name of Ed Doonan, a CBA aficionado had taken an old win 94 30/30 and went to work on ringing out the best groups. These were cast and jacketed but I remember him always complaining about the tubular magazine being clamped to the barrel. He removed the forearm and tube and had some real impressive groups from the factory barrel and action.
Charlie

[birch]

I had a gentlemen PM me and said that I might have the same problem. I know that there are some strange vibrations going on with that mag tube and hanger only a couple of inches from the barrel.

I am hoping it is like my Pre-64 winchester 70. The barrel has almost no freefloating, and there is a big ol screw that secures the stock to the barrel about halfway down. With everything I know about firearms and accuracy, my model 70 should not be a shooter--It sure does shoot!

I am hoping that the mag tube will not be an issue. If it does effect accuracy, I am going to find a way to hang that sucker in a way that wont degrade accuracy.

My main issue with my "experiment" is not having enough money right now to buy the scope that I want. The scope mount and rings are already going to be in the 70 dollar range. Once the scope gets here, I will start a new post with my initial groups and load data. Then I will start knocking down accuracy robbing variables. It should be a pretty fun experiment.

Here is what I would love to put on this gun: Leupold VX-3L 4.5-14x56mm Long Range Riflescope


BUt, 900 bucks is alot of money to spend on a scope--it might as well be a million right now. I have a feeling it will probably be after x-mas before this happens. For now, I'll probably rob a 3x12 redfield off another gun. However, it is really cold outside, so I don't know how much shooting will happen for a while.

[TXGunNut]

Interesting project, but I have a suggestion. As much as I like the VX-3 a good fixed-power scope is quite often used by long-range shooters; more than a few shoot to 1000 yds and more with a good 6X fixed. If you're not going to be shooting anything close up the variable power feature is a waste of money.

[birch]

I am thinking that the most I want to shoot is 350 yards. 400 yards at the most.

I really like a high magnification when shooting 100-300 yards. If I can see my heartbeat, I know that I have to focus on control and breathing and also trigger pull. It makes me a better shot under high magnification.

When critter hunting, a 4 or 6x is perfect for me.

[starmac]

I have heard that at least on some levers, how many rounds is in the tube affects point of aim. I think for all practical purposes this is not a problem, but for bench rest it might and long range maybe even more. I know there is at least one company that specializes in accurizing lever actions that supposedly has there own way of securing the magazine tube to supposedly eliminate these problems. You would proably have to be a better shot than I am to really notice these problems, unless in more severe cases.

[sghart3578]

I have heard that at least on some levers, how many rounds is in the tube affects point of aim. I think for all practical purposes this is not a problem, but for bench rest it might and long range maybe even more. I know there is at least one company that specializes in accurizing lever actions that supposedly has there own way of securing the magazine tube to supposedly eliminate these problems. You would proably have to be a better shot than I am to really notice these problems, unless in more severe cases.

This is certainly true on my Marlin 1894 in 357.

[birch]

I think that most guns are better shooters than I am. That is why I am so excited about getting this 30-30 going. I have looked and looked for people who have tried to benchrest this cartridge and have not found anything. There are alot of contender and Handi rifle 30-30 users, but most people just assume that the round is good for a 100 yard deer gun and nothing more. If I can create a shooter that is just as good of a shot as me, I will be happy. We might have to rely on each other to get the job done!

Have decided on Leupold one piece sts base and rings--I'll pick them up tomorrow and post the first round of tests.

[Artful]

Most Benchrest shooters will not use a lever gun - they want a bolt usually
a Remington 788 30-30 is good choice.
But if you look for some shooting long range results
it gives a good indication of accuracy potential

32-40 Marlin Model 1893 - 1896 vintage rifle shooting steel at 400 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMi5OEDVj_E

Marlin 38-55 - at 400 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U7Te8-c-0w

Winchester 30-30 1894 at 575 yards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJhmnIbw0Ao

Marlin 30-30 at 650 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiqOyisOBE8

Marlin 30-30 at 900 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8bPEPc3fnA

Marlin 38-55 at 1050 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL5FrxeeOVM

[FergusonTO35]

I think the half magazine and tenon style attachment is the biggest reason my Glenfield is so accurate, aside from good ammo.

[Lefty Red]

Nothing wrong with what you have chosen in my opinion. I think you could do the same thing with a single shot H&R 30-30 for 1/3 the money.

But hey, its your money, your time, your attitude.

IF you can find one. H&R quit making then either this year or last. Plus the price of a Handi is only a few dollars less than a used lever.

Jerry

[FergusonTO35]

I wonder if they are going to move H&R production elsewhere?

[jmort]

I believe H&R is done for. Bud's has the biggest supply of what us left.
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/hr-centerfire-rifles/hr-rifles-and-shotguns-stops-production/

[Artful]

Oh, this is sad news - and me not having enough spare to order stuff before it all disappears. :cry:

[FergusonTO35]

The more I read about the antics of big gunmakers the more I want to support Henry. What a great company, they actually care about good rifles and customer service. I suppose the others have forgotten that when you take care of the former, profits will follow. Better start saving for an H009!

[micky_blue]

The more I read about the antics of big gunmakers the more I want to support Henry. What a great company, they actually care about good rifles and customer service. I suppose the others have forgotten that when you take care of the former, profits will follow. Better start saving for an H009!

Got my second one last week.

[Tn Jim]

Got my second one last week.
Same here. A 44 Big Boy and a H001 22. Love 'em both.