A time machine has been built! You've bought a one way ticket. Where are you.......

[WILCO]

Going and why? :popcorn:

[rockrat]

I would go back to the early '50's, and try and see my Father, who was killed in service when I was little.

[DCP]

Time stops for no man, in the blink of a eye the future is here, and what is the present becomes the past.

[Fergie]

2000 BC, off the coast of North America, near Nantucket, and have a way to get to the UK as well.

I want to see the forests and coastlines before my ancestors got there, and want to see some of the mega-fauna that existed in those times. I also want to see what Stonehenge was really used for.

My favorite author wrote a set of novels along the same line as this question. S.M. Stirling and his "Island in the Sea of Time" series.

[Love Life]

I'd go back to the afternoon of the 28th and buy lottery ticket with the winning numbers.

[DCP]

I would go back to the early '50's, and try and see my Father, who was killed in service when I was little.

Thank you for your sacrifice



They went with songs to the battle, they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and a glow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted;
They fell with their faces to the foe.

They shall grow not old,as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

[catmandu]

Take a bunch of cameras to the grass knoll in Dallas TX on 22 Nov 1963, to find out how many were involved in the JFK incident. And it wouldnt share the film with anybody.. :)

[bdicki]

I'd go back to the afternoon of the 28th and buy lottery ticket with the winning numbers.

This.

[popper]

You've bought a one way ticket.
Nowhere! Sell it to some idiot.

[Hickory]

Knowing what I know about the fluctuating economy, I'd go back to 1986.

[Artful]

Interesting Question - can I alter the future as I know it?

Can I stop WW1 or WW2 or rid the world of a prophet/cult/religion by myself?

Can I go back before the pilgrims - unite the native north american tribes
elevate them beyond the technology of spanish/english/dutch colonial empires
and have them become the primary civilization in this hemisphere?

Can I go back to Roman Times alter their technology and have them conquer
all of Europe/Asia/Africa and never fall to the barbarian tribes?

Interesting question - let me get back to you after a little thought about
what I could do to make the world a better place.

[starbits]

If I could take gear with me for a long time stay it would be 70 million years ago. Just think of the hunting opportunities. If all I could take was just me then I think some time in the future when they have a cure for being old and fat.

Starbits

[Janoosh]

Starbits raises an interesting question.
1- Me and material...pre-columbian North America.
2- just me......the day and place in the crowd, front and center, listening to the sermon on the mount.

[starmac]

I would go to Alaska, just a few years earlier like I should have anyway. lol

[JSnover]

I'd go back about 70 million years and leave jacketed bullets in as many dinosaurs as I could, just to mess with the paleontologists. Especially when they find my bones in a T. Rex belly.

[jcwit]

There are so many great moments in History its really hard to chose, can I buy a few tickets?

The #2 choice by Janoosh is a very good one tho.

[JWFilips]

Interesting question - let me get back to you after a little thought about
what I could do to make the world a better place.

Artful,
I think the world was a better place.......then humans arrived on the scene.
Maybe a time before man?
Just dreaming....

[waksupi]

Around 1970. The next thirty years were a real hoot!

[rush1886]

1832-St Louis MO. Boarding a boat, headed for The Rocky Mountains!! With a brand new, fresh from the shop, J&S Hawken rifle, 54 or 58 caliber.

Why?--I've had a thing for the Fur Trade Era for many a moon. I'd dearly love to share a shot of rotgut with the likes of Hugh Glass, Ashley and Sublette.

Can I take my current stash of "trade beads" with me?

Hey, a feller can be romantic, cain't he?

[Springfield]

There's nowhere I would want to go if my family stays here.

[Multigunner]

The past is dead, nothing can change that ,I'd like to see the future.
If there were a machine to turn back the biological clock I'd rather live through the coming centuries and watch the future unfold.

Time is a fire in which we burn, and its a stream that flows one way only. History is just the flotsam that washes up on its banks.

[starmac]

I have seen more future unfold than I like, and am fearfull of what my grandkids will be living through. Going back 30 years with what I know now would be the berries.

[Alan in GA]

1926..... How many Winchester NIB Model 52, 56, and 57 22 SHORT rifles can I bring back here?!

[DCP]

1926..... How many Winchester NIB Model 52, 56, and 57 22 SHORT rifles can I bring back here?!

Not a one its a one way ticket

[Plate plinker]

Maybe back to 1950 check out the departed family before their demise and take up farming. Enjoy the good life of the big sky country. Maybe wack a few Kennedy family members before they screwed everything up.

[Bloodman14]

I would take a copy of every single gun control law and other Constitutional violations to the Founding Fathers, show them what has become of their dream, and tell them to seriously reconsider some of the wording of the Constitution. Show them the corruption in the government, and tell them to restructure the composition of the Congress. I could go on, but you get the idea.

[southpaw]

To change the past would be to change the present and I wouldn't want to loose my family. My first thought was to go back and make my Dad visit the doc but he would want me to save it incase something should happen to one of his grand kids. So that is what I would do.

Jerry Jr.

[hog]

For me it would be Rhodesia in the early 60's, a nice several thousand acre farm and hunting game when the meat pot got empty, which would be every day,. or hunting T-Rex with a .600 nitro dbl. rifle.

[possom813]

1896 Leadville, CO

Not for the lead, but to see the Ice Palace before it melted.

[bnelson06]

There's nowhere I would want to go if my family stays here.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Thumbcocker]

Judea 30 A.D.

[jaysouth]

For those who pine for the 'good old days', I remember what an outhouse smells like in August. I will patiently bide my time waiting for tomorrow so I can rectify some of my misdeeds/misteps in the past, or at least making them again.

[quilbilly]

I would have to be 35 years younger.

[HATCH]

I think I would find a way to prevent slavery in the usa.
That would solve lots of problems.
I know that would mean hardship for a bunch of southerners but in the long term it would be so worth it.

[NoAngel]

North America, a few hundred years ago. With Universal Translator in hand, I would tell every tribal leader I could find; If it ain't got a feather in it's hair, KILL it before it gets off the boat. Then set the boats on fire and never tell the tale.

[lawdog941]

If I could only go alone, I would go to the future. History is set, but the future is mystery. I would see how our generation effected the planet. Three hundred years would suffice. Also, check the family tree to see who has contributed for the greater good, provided Rapture hasn't occurred.

[fatnhappy]

Judea 30 A.D.

That was my second choice. My first choice is to grab an M-14 and go find that #$%^%$# Mohammed in Mecca before he becomes famous.

[kfarm]

Back to 1966-68 farming with my dad making $5.00 a day. Joined the army in 68, when I got home in 71 everything had changed even my father. Thought going to war was the right thing to do at the time but he never forgave me. Oh well, how about going back about a week, I sure miss that watch.

[Plate plinker]

That was my second choice. My first choice is to grab an M-14 and go find that #$%^%$# Mohammed in Mecca before he becomes famous.

That was my other choice. Very good idea sir.

[hithard]

I think I would find a way to prevent slavery in the usa.
That would solve lots of problems.
I know that would mean hardship for a bunch of southerners but in the long term it would be so worth it.

I would go with you just in case you got hurt or killed and couldn't get the message out.

[alleyoop]

I'd go back and stop the thug Lincoln, slavery was a dying issue anyway. But what Lincoln killed was freedom for all !
The north had their share of slaves as well, plus they had the wage slaves also.

[NavyVet1959]

Interesting Question - can I alter the future as I know it?

Can I stop WW1 or WW2 or rid the world of a prophet/cult/religion by myself?

Can I go back before the pilgrims - unite the native north american tribes
elevate them beyond the technology of spanish/english/dutch colonial empires
and have them become the primary civilization in this hemisphere?

Can I go back to Roman Times alter their technology and have them conquer
all of Europe/Asia/Africa and never fall to the barbarian tribes?

Interesting question - let me get back to you after a little thought about
what I could do to make the world a better place.

Maybe go back to 1776 and tell the Founding Fathers to be a bit more explicit on the 2nd Amendment because there are going to be a bunch of idiots in later generations that can't understand plain English.

Also, maybe go back to July of 1808 and kill Nancy Hanks Lincoln. That would save over 600,000 American lives.

[MtGun44]

FatnHappy gets the prize.

Hard to decide. Probably just go back about 20 years and have a nice visit with my
folks, maybe pick up a few machine guns before the ban and cash a lottery ticket.

LOL! Catmandu - That grassy knoll footage would show nothing. Folks have been chasing that
BS smoke and mirrors theory for 50 yrs.

Like in the game Clue: Oswald, from the School Book Depository, with a 6.5 Carcano. Sorry,
sometimes nutballs get lucky and the story isn't very complicated like silly Hollyweird movies.

All else is BS and lies from lying authors selling their lying books. People have been making a
living of Kennedy fiction for half a century now. Pretty hilarious.

Bill

[Alan in GA]

I'd like to go back to last Tuesday and not eat that 'to go' Chinese fast food I had...... : )

[NoAngel]

Wouldn't mind going back to 1933 and grabbing FDR by the wheel chair and wheeling his crippled *** off a bluff with all his çrap socialistic garbage programs. Socialism Security and all the other filth he got started.

[MT Gianni]

Glad to see no one admits to wanting to go back to the day before their wedding.

[jcwit]

Wouldn't mind going back to 1933 and grabbing FDR by the wheel chair and wheeling his crippled *** off a bluff with all his çrap socialistic garbage programs. Socialism Security and all the other filth he got started.

But I bet you'll take advantage of it when the time comes.

Still haven't decided for sure just when but very possibly 1965 when I was in the service, missed a great life changing opportunity way back then.

But then again if I would have taken it I'd have never met my wife.

[merlin101]

I find it amazing that so many people got on board with this question but ridiculed the zombie one.
But with that being said, I really can't pick any one time. There's so much history that I'd love to see that it would take a lifetime of lifetimes to see it!

[NoAngel]

But I bet you'll take advantage of it when the time comes.

Still haven't decided for sure just when but very possibly 1965 when I was in the service, missed a great life changing opportunity way back then.

But then again if I would have taken it I'd have never met my wife.


Youd lose that bet. First off, it won't be here when I'm eligible and if it is, I won't apply on sheer principle. Yes it's technically throwing my money away but that's the problem with everything, no one stands on what they beleive. I will not support armed robbery and that's all this country's social welfare filth is; armed robbery. If I come to your house, point a gun at you and take what's yours, I'm a theif. I don't want to participate in Socialism Security but I'm not allowed to opt out of it. If I stop paying it, eventually people with guns will show up looking for me. How is that NOT armed robbery?
I would gladly strike the match that burns that program to the ground and bring hotdogs and marshmallows. I don't care that people depend on it, they should have planned out their lives better. I am much more capable of taking care of myself than they are. I could easily invest the money they steal from me each week and have more on my return.

[pretzelxx]

Around 1900. I would like to meet Browning!

[NoAngel]

Around 1900. I would like to meet Browning!

When you go, bring him back. I'd love to see what he could do with polymers and 5 axis machining centers.

[jcwit]

Youd lose that bet. First off, it won't be here when I'm eligible and if it is, I won't apply on sheer principle. Yes it's technically throwing my money away but that's the problem with everything, no one stands on what they beleive. I will not support armed robbery and that's all this country's social welfare filth is; armed robbery. If I come to your house, point a gun at you and take what's yours, I'm a theif. I don't want to participate in Socialism Security but I'm not allowed to opt out of it. If I stop paying it, eventually people with guns will show up looking for me. How is that NOT armed robbery?
I would gladly strike the match that burns that program to the ground and bring hotdogs and marshmallows. I don't care that people depend on it, they should have planned out their lives better. I am much more capable of taking care of myself than they are. I could easily invest the money they steal from me each week and have more on my return.

Sorry, you feel that way but in reality it's not armed robbery as you claim.

Sign off on it, its an option you have IIRC. The Amish do if they wish.


I don't care that people depend on it, they should have planned out their lives better.

You sure have a good Christian attitude towards your fellow man.

[NoAngel]

And in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return unto the ground.

People seem to miss the part about returning to the ground. It didn't say anything about "until you reach a certain age where you can extort money from other people through a system that enforces its will upon its people by force.

I shouldnt have to live like the Amish. I pay my taxes. Dont complain (much) about it. But you're wrong there's no opting out of it short of living like a refugee. It's a delusion perpetuated by two parties, those who profit from it within the system and those who want something for nothing. Most everyone over the age of 70 with a reasonable amount of health will draw out more than they paid in. That has to be made up by the rest of us.
I have no issue whatsoever with people willingly participating. If it's what you want, the libertarian in me says go for it and be happy. I don't have a problem with communism FOR THOSE WHO CHOOSE IT. I hate, with every drop of blood in my body, forced participation in anything.
I'm happy to pay wheel tax, I love paved roads. I'm reasonably willing to accept income taxes because thats what funds our military (God bless you boys!) that keep me safe.
Socialism Security is its own separate monstrosity designed by socialists. Charity and welfare is the job of the church and private enterprise NOT out federal government. Im happy to give to help the needy, but only those I FEEL are needy. St. Jude's is a worthy cause. Paying some lazy inept bastage to sit on his butt because his back hurts is NOT. I have two herniated disks in my lower back and one in my neck but I manage 60 hours a week to provide for me and my wife.

There re was a time when people who wouldn't work starved and died. 2 Thessalonians 3:10
a man that won't work shouldn't eat.
Just because a person used to work, he should continue to eat at the expense of another's purse?
Filth. A man should retire when HE can afford to retire, not when he can manipulate others into affording it for him.

[jcwit]

No one asked you to live like an Amish man. Yes the Amish pay their taxes. Yes they can opt out of S/S, I know this for a fact.

Furthermore I'm 71 and do not get S/S.

Now back to just where or when I would like to go.

I think the days of The Mountain Men or the days of The Old West would be interesting, but then I may be expecting to much for that era.

[Multigunner]

Like in the game Clue: Oswald, from the School Book Depository, with a 6.5 Carcano. Sorry,
sometimes nutballs get lucky and the story isn't very complicated like silly Hollyweird movies.

All else is BS and lies from lying authors selling their lying books. People have been making a
living of Kennedy fiction for half a century now. Pretty hilarious.

Bill
I heartily agree.
Anyone with any experiance with bolt action center fire rifles could have made those shots. A bullet passing through JFK's neck and through the knot of his neck tie sounds like an amazing shot, unless Oswald was aiming center mass and the bullet went high. Like Rooster Cogburn saying he had shot off a man's upper lip by accident, when asked how he could have shot off the man's upper lip by accident he said "I was aiming at high lower lip.
The bullets of the Winchester 6.5 ammo he was using were noted for breaking in half at the crimp, nothing magic there.
I don't doubt Oswald had accomplices , more than likely unwiting accomplices, or simply acted on something his buddies had kicked around during some drinking bout at Ruby's bar.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I thought about this for probably longer than it really deserved and came to the conclusion that the only person or event worth going back to witness and never return, would be the life of Christ. Then I remembered, I get to see him sooner or later anyway. So I'll just give my ticket to someone else.

[GhostHawk]

I have a time machine, it is in my head. It is called Imagination.

It lets me go back and hunt buffalo, fight in the Civil war, climb Everest, plumb the depths of the deepest sea, walk on the moon.
Takes me to exotic locations, and times.

Best of all when the phone rings or there is a knock at the door I blink, sit up, and I am back here.
Safe, sound, enough to eat, good medical help if I need it, top notch transportation, communication.

Here and now is good, but perhaps tomorrow will be better.

I have an abundance of everything but money. Good enough for me.

[Multigunner]

Quote Originally Posted by pretzelxx View Post

Around 1900. I would like to meet Browning!
When you go, bring him back. I'd love to see what he could do with polymers and 5 axis machining centers.
While he'd build some very fine firearms using modern machinery and alloys , he'd use the polymers for cheap pocket pistol grips if no walnut , ivory or mother of pearl was available.
I wonder what he'd have said about the WW2 Bakelite butt stock of the M1918A2, nothing good I imagine

I expect the only use he'd have for the 5.56 cartridge would be to pick his teeth with it.

[10x]

I would like a "youth machine" that would get me back to 20 or so...

[rockrat]

10X--you aren't the only one!!!!! I would take 25 as I was still growing at 20, stopped later in college.

[NavyVet1959]

I would like a "youth machine" that would get me back to 20 or so...

But that is only good if you still know all the things that you have learned since being 20 so you don't have to make the same mistakes again. It would be nice to avoid a few broken bones and having been shot by not doing the same things on the second trip past 20 that I did on the first trip. :(

[bikerbeans]

Ancient Egypt to see how they really built the pyramids. This trip would probably have a bit of risk as I might end up being one of the "builders".

BB

[NoAngel]

Ancient Egypt to see how they really built the pyramids. This trip would probably have a bit of risk as I might end up being one of the "builders".

BB
That's easy. By blood sweat and tears of thousands of Hebrew children.

[Navy Shooter]

I think I'd go back just a few years, to when I decided the water was too cold, and decided not to swim with the kids. Maybe I'd even decide to waste time playing those video games with them. Admittedly, they stomped all over me when I did play, but maybe I would keep it up, next time around.

So if any of you young guys are reading this, swim with the kids, and play the stupid games. And when you're older, you won't want to go back.

[bikerbeans]

That's easy. By blood sweat and tears of thousands of Hebrew children.

You missed my point, there was technology involved that was lost. Just like the Roman concrete that we don't seem to be able to reproduce today.

BB

[AZ-JIM]

For me, I belive I would like the 1850's out west, maybe Wyoming or Colorado. No bills, no worries...unless you agitated the indians I guess. But like Josey Whales said "...life or death Ive come to give you either one or get either from you..." something like that. Hunt and trap all day, tend to the farm. Sounds good to me, maybe even take a crack at the goldrush?

az-jim

[fatelk]

I'd go back to 1982 and relive my high school football glory days. Back in '82, I used to be able to throw a pigskin a quarter mile.

Oh wait, that wasn't me. Never mind.



Glad to see no one admits to wanting to go back to the day before their wedding.
I will! I'd do it all over again too!

[fast ronnie]

Go back to Adam and Eve and have a little talk with them about their dietary habits!

[MtGun44]

Actually, AFAIK, we can better Roman concrete by a lot. The biggest secret to VERY long
life in concrete parts is DO NOT put steel or iron reinforcing bars into it. They rust and
pop it apart. The Romans never used iron reinforcement bars.

Also, the Romans often used volcanic ash and pumice as aggregate, and managed to
make very durable concrete and the lighter pumice-filled stuff was used on the top of structures
like the amazing Pantheon in Rome - a personal favorite ancient building. Today, similar results
come from using fly ash as an admixture in our normal concrete for extreme strength
and some builders use very light heat expanded rocks as a lightweight filler, too. In
addition, these lightweight modern concretes have a greater thermal R value. The
heat expanded rocks emulate volcanic pumice fairly well.

Bill

[MtGun44]

LOL! Yes, Social Sec is armed robbery. And NO you cannot opt out of it unless you have
a religion that forbids it, or have an alternative run by the state that employs you - like
some schoolteachers.

I actually tried to opt out when I was a teen in the 60s, was told "No way" a number of times.
Now taking it, would be financially OK without it, but since the SOBs took it from me for my
whole career, I want it back. Would have been darned happy to opt out and never collect
a penny, but it impossible for most of us.

As to dumping FDR. Lots of bad, but he had a real handle on getting us ready for WW2 in
a pretty good way. Getting rid of his communist VP Wallace would have been a bigger help,
and maybe finding someone that would be able to explain even the simplest math to him.
His economic advisors have written that he was entirely unable to grasp mathematical
explanations of economic policy and was a total loose cannon - messing up a LOT of stuff
and making the Depression a LOT worse with his policies. Hate his economics but have,
as I have studied WW2 history more closely, grudgingly come to respect his military planning
judgement. Fortunately the Supreme Court cancelled almost all of the worst economic
and socialist/communist stuff that he got passed.

Bill

[Artful]

You missed my point, there was technology involved that was lost. Just like the Roman concrete that we don't seem to be able to reproduce today.

BB

Oh, we can replicate it
- but they don't want too
- you'd loose out on a lot of work if what you built didn't degrade quickly. Just like the cheap way we build roads that need repair in short order.

www.romanconcrete.com/Article1Secrets.pdf

[quote]
The researchers described it this way in a press release on the subject:

The Romans made concrete by mixing lime and volcanic rock. For underwater structures, lime and volcanic ash were mixed to form mortar, and this mortar and volcanic tuff were packed into wooden forms. The seawater instantly triggered a hot chemical reaction. The lime was hydrated – incorporating water molecules into its structure – and reacted with the ash to cement the whole mixture together.
And it gets even better. Portland cement is environmentally messy to produce, accounting for some seven percent of the C02 modern industry produces. Roman concrete? Much, much greener. There's still a lot of work to be done in adapting traditional Roman construction techniques to today's needs. But the recipe is as good as ever. We just have to get cookin'.

[URL="http://www.romanconcrete.com/Article1Secrets.pdf[/URL]

[Multigunner]

Using volcanic rock and ash would be more economical in some areas, like Iceland and Hawaii where its common as dirt.

I expect if Roman roads had been subjected to modern semi truck traffic they'd have degraded as quickly as any modern roads.
Don't know about concrete roads, considered the millions of tons of rolling cargo that travel down them every day but concrete sidewalk sections seem to degrade more because they pour them thin with no supporting bed of stone than anything else.

With real estate worth more than the structures on it building to last centuries is not cost effective, the work done to demolish Casinos in Vegas is an example.

On the otherhand there are WW2 era concrete structures in German cities that they simply can't demolish with explosives without endangering many near by buildings, and abandoned Sub Pens that would require a nuke to get rid of.

[Janoosh]

Current theory about building the pyramids is that they were built by groups of villagers in work gangs as tribute to the pharaohs. Such as the "Baltimore crew" or "Dallas crew".

[MtGun44]

It would be interesting to watch them move some of those huge rocks (pyramids). Lots of good theories
of how to do it, and most would probably work. It would probably be some easier way that
we never thought of. It is easy to imagine that ancient people were "dumber" than we are
because we have so much technology to help us now, built up over centuries, but my opinion
is that they were just as smart as we are, sometimes smarter, but they had none of our
basic materials and energy technology to work from.

Bill

[Multigunner]

is that they were just as smart as we are, sometimes smarter, but they had none of our
basic materials and energy technology to work from.

Bill
Main thing that held the American Indian back was lack of beasts of burden before the White man brought horses to this continent.
The Llama was too lightly built to carry much of a load or pull a cart or any size but worked okay going along mountain trails. Further north they might keep a large dog to help pull a travois.
Every bit of wood burned in a villiage had to be carried there by hand. When sizeable Indian towns were built in the cooler Northern climes they used up all the near by firewood too fast and had to move on.
Straight timber was scarce out west, so to make roof beams for stone or adobe houses they had to harvest all the young trees for many miles around, making trees even more scarce and making the region drier and less fertile every year.

[Thumbcocker]

Guns, germs, and steel by Jarod diamond offers the best explanation of why different civilizations developed where they did that I have found.

[NavyVet1959]

Main thing that held the American Indian back was lack of beasts of burden before the White man brought horses to this continent.

I remember reading an article awhile back about how the horses had originally evolved in North America where some migrated to Asia during the last Ice Age when the Bering Land Bridge. The horses that were still here ended up becoming extinct, only to be unknowingly reintroduced by the Spaniards when the "New World" was "discovered".

Camels originally evolved in North America also.

[MtGun44]

UH-0h - pet peeve alert. . . . . . . :bigsmyl2:

Sorry to disagree, but Guns, Germs and Steel is a total load of baloney. He absolutely
states and insists on rejecting out of hand that there could be anything at all to the
end results that was driven by a superior culture. He, a priori, rejects the actual
cause and goes off on a huge "excuse expedition".

Sounds good if you just follow along - but he is pretty much publishing an elaborate
propaganda piece, rejecting the fundamental truth that Christian, European CULTURE
where we had a religion driving a fundamental MORAL stability (Ten Commandments,
as a goal, however imperfectly implemented, are far better than NO commandments,
or pure 'might makes right', seen in most other cultures) and produced enough
respect for learning which was largely lost after Greece and Roman collapses. The
respect for the individual that developed, especially in England where the aristocrats
were forced by the technology of the longbow to accept arming the peasants with
a weapon powerful enough to defeat their most powerful aristocratically controlled
weapons system, armored knights, became the basis for an agreement that the
aristocracy had only limited powers and peasants and free men had definite
rights, that was formalized in the Magna Carta. Free men, able to work mostly
for themselves, developed a LOT of advances that will never happen in a
pure old aristocracy where the king only cares that HE gets enough, and why
worry if there are better mills, roads, wagons, mills for wool and cloth, etc, etc,
etc.

The native Americans never developed even basic technologies, never made it out of
the stone age, to even the early bronze age, let alone the iron age. The Americas never
even developed the wheel - which would have dramatically equalized the lack of a large
beast of burden. Frankly, the cultures of America never developed a strong interest in pure
science, and seemed to never value the individual and developments of technology.
No written languages! No mathematics! The Mayans had real calendars, necessary for
efficient planting, but no time measurement, just entirely non-technology. When the
Reformation (Martin Luther) lead to the movement of the Church mostly out of politics,
it kept the moral leadership, but loosened the dogmatic reigns on technology and science.

Sorry, but when a stone age small tribal band of hunter-gatherers comes in conflict
with a machine age organized society with guns, the wheel, written language, books,
and rapidly developing technology - the stone age tribe is totally screwed whether it is
in North or South America, on Pacific Islands or in Australia.

Again - Diamond is pandering politically correct excuses and total nonsense, proudly rejecting
in advance (he states it) the actual cause - superior culture and moral values as the
fundamental reason that European culture has triumphed. Even China developed huge
amounts of technology - that was a total dead end because the individual was of near
zero value and the culture did not expand on or distribute developed technology, it was
used for toys for a tiny aristocracy and mostly abandoned.

Bill

[jmort]

I have read two of his books including the one mentioned. He tries to make the case as to how neutral and objective he is, but as I recall he is a liberal professor from UCLA. He is a liberal for sure, but I enjoyed the books. A couple other books that I liked were 1491 and 1493.

[Multigunner]

The South American cultures had glyphic script, the North American Indians had petroglyphs, neither were efficient ways of preserving information in any complicated form. Even those who know the key to these languages have a hard time figuring out what a message actually means. The average Indio would not be likely to master these.

Theres evidence of sophisticated knowledge of biochemical processes, some staple foods were deadly poisonous in their natural state and required complicated processing to make these edible. The Amazonion tribes who are descended from slaves of the Inca still process a very toxic root to grind into flour the make a nutrious bread substitute. The process was carried on from one generation to the next without these people knowing exactly what they were doing, only knowing that tradition said it had to be done.
Their largest suspension bridges dwarfed anything of the sort in Europe till the mid 19th century at least. Those were made from hand twisted rope rather than steel cables.

The Written word didn't help the average European much till the invention of the printing press and discovery of the eastern methods of making paper.
One reason they did not include several books of the jewish old testament in the christian bible was the shear weight of bibles hand transcribed on parchment, they would have had to carry the bible around in a wheel barrow. As it was the medieval illuminated bible was a real armful for a healthy young monk to carry for his master.

Some North American Indians smelted copper in small quantities but made little use of it.A carefully crafted flint arrowhead or knife was sharper and cost nothing if lost or broken other than the effort to fashion another from abundant materials.

Some Norther tribes had very detailed knowledge of the movement of the stars. Open air observatories have been identified.

The Cherokee had developed a bill of rights that from relic documents appears to have had a great impact on the creation of our own Bill Of Rights. They elected representatives much as we do.

I agree that technologically the Indian was mid way into the Neolithic stage of development, but in some other ways they were advanced.

PS
There have been a number of discoveries in old records that suggest that Whites were not responsible for introducing most of the diseases that decimated the Indian tribes. We could go into that in another thread.

[TXGunNut]

I'd like to go back and watch the goings-on in JMB's workshop in the early days. I'd also like for him to know how his work lasted and influenced so many other guns. Not wild about the one-way concept so I'm probably better off staying right here and now.

[Forgetful]

I'd go back to the afternoon of the 28th and buy lottery ticket with the winning numbers.

Why not go back a year, with a year's worth of winning numbers? May as well milk and pummel the banking system! They'd do it to you if given the opportunity!

Why isn't anybody going back to Cain and Abel, and SLAY CAIN. lol.
Or go visit Abraham and Sarah, and SLAY ISHMAEL AND HAGAR.
Or maybe stop off at Eden and slap Eve around for looking at apples.

[NavyVet1959]

All major civilizations mastered the concept of fermenting beverages. Coincidence?

[Forgetful]

All major civilizations mastered the concept of fermenting beverages. Coincidence?

We were given that technology, as well as mathematics and agriculture and more. Records go back to first written language on Earth, pre-Babylonian. We did not invent those things. The persians or arabs had nothing to do with any of it. Except for that guy who contributed to algebra.

[Uncle Jimbo]

I would go back to the beginning. Space and the universe have a beginning somewhere, or maybe they don't.
:???::???::???:

[WILCO]

The replies have been great! Thank you Gentlemen.

[ogre]

It would have to be the late Pleistocene for me.

[Love Life]

North America, a few hundred years ago. With Universal Translator in hand, I would tell every tribal leader I could find; If it ain't got a feather in it's hair, KILL it before it gets off the boat. Then set the boats on fire and never tell the tale.

That would only delay the inevitable.

[Navy Shooter]

I have read two of his books including the one mentioned. He tries to make the case as to how neutral and objective he is, but as I recall he is a liberal professor from UCLA. He is a liberal for sure, but I enjoyed the books. A couple other books that I liked were 1491 and 1493.

There are liberals at UCLA ??? Next thing you know, California will start to have restrictive gun laws...

[jmort]

Yes that is redundant

[firefly1957]

Other than maybe hitting the lottery i would need it to see were to go forward back hey if i could rent it for an hour i would have all the time in the world!

[waynem34]

Already been mentioned I'm sure, but fermentation happens naturaly right when fruit falls on the ground ferment starts.

[Multigunner]

All major civilizations mastered the concept of fermenting beverages. Coincidence?
In caves once inhabited by early humans they have found large stones hollowed out like deep bowls or pots. In the bottom of these crude pots they found organic matter that turned out to be the remnants of crushed fruits and veast molds. From analysis they concluded the organic matter was the remains of an ancient mash allowed to ferment to make a crude wine or home brew.

Fermentation is such a simply and natural process that its no surprise that all or almost all cultures developed wine and or beer.
Distilled spirits is something else again.

Elephants will eat a particular fruit that ferments on the vine, when they do they get drunk and disorderly. The "Rogue Elephant" is usually simply a mean tempered drunk. Entire herds of Elephant are known to consume this fruit and then go looking for trouble at the closest villiage.

[Lloyd Smale]

id want to land in the late 60s. Simpler time then and lots of cool muscle cars for cheap.

[NavyVet1959]

In caves once inhabited by early humans they have found large stones hollowed out like deep bowls or pots. In the bottom of these crude pots they found organic matter that turned out to be the remnants of crushed fruits and veast molds. From analysis they concluded the organic matter was the remains of an ancient mash allowed to ferment to make a crude wine or home brew.

Fermentation is such a simply and natural process that its no surprise that all or almost all cultures developed wine and or beer.
Distilled spirits is something else again.

Elephants will eat a particular fruit that ferments on the vine, when they do they get drunk and disorderly. The "Rogue Elephant" is usually simply a mean tempered drunk. Entire herds of Elephant are known to consume this fruit and then go looking for trouble at the closest villiage.

Finding a couple of things that ferment is one thing, but having the agricultural society that provides an excess of grain that allows the excess to be stored in the form of alcohol is completely different. It's the move from a nomadic hunter-gatherer society to an agrarian one that can support more people. So, the "mastered the concept of fermenting beverages" is more of a result than a cause.

[NoAngel]

That would only delay the inevitable.

Yeah, they would need to be taught many things.
I would love to see into a future where a Unified Tribes of America happened. A warrior nation bereft of the cultural mixing pot America became.

[Love Life]

I like the cultural mixing pot of America. The stronger, smarter, and mor conniving won. What we see now is the result of that.

Not a racist comment, or a superiority complex comment. Just documented history.

[Forgetful]

Fermentation is such a simply and natural process that its no surprise that all or almost all cultures developed wine and or beer.

I was in an argument once about the word "wine" written 2000 years ago actually just meant "juice" and that alcohol was always a "sin." I had to point out they had no refrigerators to keep juice... and they couldn't use any preservatives, other than naturally occurring alcohol. Apparently I'm stupid.



I like the cultural mixing pot of America. The stronger, smarter, and mor conniving won. What we see now is the result of that.

Not a racist comment, or a superiority complex comment. Just documented history.

Crucible should be a more appropriate word, than melting pot. The garbage and impurities are to be removed and discarded as waste. No matter how much flux you use, you can't force s**t to melt.

[Multigunner]

I was in an argument once about the word "wine" written 2000 years ago actually just meant "juice" and that alcohol was always a "sin." I had to point out they had no refrigerators to keep juice... and they couldn't use any preservatives, other than naturally occurring alcohol. Apparently I'm stupid.


I've had exactly the same conversation, no argument to it just pointed out that simple fact and let them think on it.

As for surplus of grain in some regions wheat and other grains grew wild in abundance.
Some researchers duplicated primitive harvesting tools and found a neolithic family could harvest enough grain in just a few days to feed themselves for a year. That left them with a lot of free time for hunting and fishing and working on other projects. In that region at least they led the life of Riley and didn't miss the luxuries because they had never had them to begin with.
As populations grew they had to turn to cultivation and irrigation to be sure everyone got enough to eat.

[NoAngel]

I was in an argument once about the word "wine" written 2000 years ago actually just meant "juice" and that alcohol was always a "sin." I had to point out they had no refrigerators to keep juice... and they couldn't use any preservatives, other than naturally occurring alcohol. Apparently I'm stupid.




Crucible should be a more appropriate word, than melting pot. The garbage and impurities are to be removed and discarded as waste. No matter how much flux you use, you can't force s**t to melt.


Yeah but thats not what's happened at all. The lazy, inept, useless and worthless garbage has not been removed. Instead they have asserted their right to leech the system dry and force the working man into a pseudo slavery position.

I reject all notions of the melting pot paradigm NOT on the idea of it but from the results it's produced in this country.

[Multigunner]

Well slag and dross rises to the top just as feces float in a toliet bowl. The most useless are often the most vocal and evident in a society.

[WILCO]

Bump!

[firefly1957]

I had the same argument on wine and alcohol and pointing out that Noah got drunk when he got off the ark did not make the other person happy to many people try to rewrite the bible and the rest of history as well.

[waksupi]

I had the same argument on wine and alcohol and pointing out that Noah got drunk when he got off the ark did not make the other person happy to many people try to rewrite the bible and the rest of history as well.


On Cowboy Corner, I heard an old rancher say that when Noah was dealing with the flood, they only got a half inch of rain in west Texas.

[madsenshooter]

1950, I'd go back and kill Jona Salk before he developed the witches brew that contaminated 98 million Americans. This figure doesn't include what it has done to later generations.

[ell198679]

Travel back in time and shoot your self fatally with a cast boolit. How, can you travel back in time?

[Forgetful]

Travel back in time and shoot your self fatally with a cast boolit. How, can you travel back in time?

Traveling back will always be part of *your* timeline and can never be changed. You would create a parallel dimension the moment you went back, and it wouldn't matter if you shot yourself or not.

[tygar]

I have given this some thought & given that it "is" possible to time travel - & return, I would take a number of trips. The first would be back to around 1775 & hook up with my hero's like Washington, Franklin, Adams, Paine, et al, & my favorite Tom Jefferson.

Then I'd go & fight with Tim Murphy & watch him make the shot that many say, changed & won the war. Fight on until the end & watch the birth of the US.

Then I'd snag a bunch of mint condition coins return to my 30s & sell them for big bucks & buy Apple & Microsoft etc & buy a lot more guns & hunt & fish the world, raise Quarter Horses & cattle on a big *** ranch with a real nice 1 mile range.

The I'd take my millions/billions & ensure that Osama Obummer never got elected (or hopefully any of the other scumbags).

[wills]

On Cowboy Corner, I heard an old rancher say that when Noah was dealing with the flood, they only got a half inch of rain in west Texas.

And Carpetman probably got it.

[MtGun44]

Salk developed a "witches brew"? Is this supposed to be a joke or just some
insanity? Salk developed the vaccine to prevent polio - how in world is that twisted
into something bad?

Bill

[waksupi]

Salk developed a "witches brew"? Is this supposed to be a joke or just some
insanity? Salk developed the vaccine to prevent polio - how in world is that twisted
into something bad?

Bill

I was still scratching my head over that one, too. He must not know anyone who had polio.

[Col4570]

Before politicians ruined my country and way of life by allowing immigration to run wild whilst they sit in their Ivory Towers surveying their handywork.

[Forgetful]

Before politicians ruined my country and way of life by allowing immigration to run wild whilst they sit in their Ivory Towers surveying their handywork.

If they only earned room & board, and couldn't own anything or have families... (dehumanize them)... Then that would remove a huge conflict of interest, and most/all would have your interests instead of their own.

[fatelk]

I was still scratching my head over that one, too. He must not know anyone who had polio.

+2 on that one. I was wondering the same thing.

[NavyVet1959]

I was still scratching my head over that one, too. He must not know anyone who had polio.

Or knows someone who got polio from the vaccine?

[Multigunner]

Some Salk Polio Vacine made using cells from the Rehsus Monkey was found to be contaminated by the SV-40 virus. While 98 million Americans took the vacine only 30 million got the contaminated vacine.
While SV-40 has been found in cancerous tissues surveys indicate that those who carry the virus are no more likely to develop cancer than those who don't.
Still it is a cross species contamination and one that was unlikely to have ever occurred on any noticable scale otherwise.

[oldsagerat]

Back to 1965 when I was 17 if I can take what I know now with me
and not be as stupid as I was at 17.

[NavyVet1959]

Back to 1965 when I was 17 if I can take what I know now with me
and not be as stupid as I was at 17.

"If I knew then what I knew now... I would probably be in jail..." :)

[WILCO]

Bump!

[GL49]

Starbits raises an interesting question.
1- Me and material...pre-columbian North America.
2- just me......the day and place in the crowd, front and center, listening to the sermon on the mount.


So far, I like this answer best

[Janoosh]

Thank You GL49.
It is a one way ticket after all, as is Life.

[MtGun44]

Let's see, polio or a reliable vaccine with a vanishingly small risk of an obscure, non-harmful monkey virus?

I'll sign up for the vaccine any day. Have to call that a dingbat claim, IMO.

Bill

[fatnhappy]

Let's see, polio or a reliable vaccine with a vanishingly small risk of an obscure, non-harmful monkey virus?

I'll sign up for the vaccine any day. Have to call that a dingbat claim, IMO.

Bill

Amen. Jonas Salk saved untold thousands of families from the pain of watching their children die. The reward to risk ratio is so disproportionate I have to wonder why anyone would think otherwise.

[WILCO]

Bump to the top!

[scarry scarney]

Talk about a time machine.......(from way back).....

[snowwolfe]

I would go 5 years in the future to see if these dumb polls are still in existence.

[odinohi]

I would go to a time when bosses made everyone work, no matter what color they are!

[NavyVet1959]

I would go 5 years in the future to see if these dumb polls are still in existence.

Or go back to 2007 and prevent WILCO from becoming a member so these asinine polls would have never occurred. Bumping to the top like this just confirms my suspicion that he's a post *****.

[shooterg]

Geez, Navy, bit harsh there ! I would not go back any farther than early smokeless powder days. I don't care for BP and frontloaders !

[Markbo]

1976. And buy all the Apple and soon Microsoft stock I could lay hands on.

[WILCO]

I would go 5 years in the future to see if these dumb polls are still in existence.




Or go back to 2007 and prevent WILCO from becoming a member so these asinine polls would have never occurred. Bumping to the top like this just confirms my suspicion that he's a post *****.

There is no poll associated with this thread. If you don't like my posts, simply ignore them.




Geez, Navy, bit harsh there !

I would agree.

As long as the site owner and moderators allow posts like those above, this great site will continue to decline in both spirit and membership.

[Blackwater]

I dunno, but I think I'm with Popper. If I'm not satisfied here, then I probably wouldn't be satisfied there, either, so ... I think I'd sell it.

But Jsnover's comment appeals to the devil in me, too, though! :wink:

[Lloyd Smale]

id do it different. Make about the same money doing the job I liked (lineman) and take all my money instead of partying it away id buy a hemi cuda convertable, ls6 chevelle convertable, boss 429 mustang. Enjoy them but keep them nice and retire in real fine shape selling two of the three today. You could have easily picked up any of the three during the gas crunch days for 4 or 5k in mint shape and there all worth a 1/4 million or more today. Pretty good interest on something that you can actually enjoy.
1976. And buy all the Apple and soon Microsoft stock I could lay hands on.

[WILCO]

id do it different.

Same here.

[montana_charlie]

I'd go back to 1963 and grab my Dad's WWII issue 1911 and his Dad's Colt 1903 hammerless ... to keep my stepmother from selling them in a rummage sale while I was at school.

We (Dad, brother, and I) lost a lot of our 'special stuff' that day. I held it against her for as long as she lived.

[funnyjim014]

As to not disturb the past and create my own non extance i would go to amvets and buy some time period clothing go to 1960s and buy every mil surp i can get my hands on and burry them in the desert someplace to find when i get back.orrrrrrrrr i could see what a 50 bmg does to a bronasous lol

[dragonrider]

Only if I could bring someone back with me, and I would bring back Leonardo DaVinci and Benjamin Franklin, Can you imagine the conversations one could have with such men.