What's a "fluffy" powder for reloading 9 x 19, 125gr boolits?

[Walstr]

Going for "lower power" 9mm loads for 3-Gun shooting, for my son. I'm looking for a some "fluffy" powder to avoid potential double load hazards. I'm using Trail Boss for my 45LC CAS shooting, but that's the only powder I know of that is 'safe' in small amounts. I'm guessing a 9mm will take about 3-4gr, but that small amoiunt is hard to see in the case whilst reloading. Thanks for watching.

Wally

[dikman]

G'day Wally, I'm far from being an expert in this stuff, but having just discovered Trail Boss, and reading up on it, my understanding is that it's made specifically for what you want i.e. it's light and fluffy to make it almost impossible to overcharge a case to dangerous levels. I don't know of any other fluffy-type powder. I'll be reloading .357 shortly, using TB and probably 4-5 gns. How are you charging the cases?

[BDJ]

Unique

Gee, took for ever to find the chart.

http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/powder.pdf

My Google foo sucks.

[winelover]

Unique

I'll second that!

Winelover

[Poygan]

I would also consider Red Dot.

[farmerjim]

Herco! Light charges almost fill the case, heavier ones are compressed loads. A max load will not fit into the case.

[Bucking the Tiger]

Green Dot is also a good choice.

[ph4570]

Blue Dot.

[jcwit]

You could easily overcharge a case with Red Dot.

Trail Boss would be my choice, and I have no idea about the others mentioned.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Unique is what you're looking for. It'll fill those cases quite nicely! Trail boss is no good for 9x19 as I doubt you could get enough of it in the case to cycle most nines...and it can't be compressed.

[OuchHot!]

Blue dot nearly fills to compression in the 40SnW. I have heard (but not tested) that this is true for 9mm.

[waltherboy4040]

Green dot

[Okie73]

My vote would be Unique.

[dragon813gt]

Tin Star is another option. I avoid Unique any chance I get.

[bnelson06]

Tin Star is another option. I avoid Unique any chance I get.

May I ask why

[dragon813gt]

May I ask why

Never the best powder. The phrase jack or all trades but master or none comes to mind. I prefer the modern equivalent, Universal. Unique also meters horribly. I have some in my cabinet. But it's way down on the list of ones to use. I realize I will be in the minority here. I made a decision years ago to keep powder selection to minimum and buy in bulk. Unique was not on that list.

[bnelson06]

Reason enough, to each his own

[pjames32]

Red Dot. Loaded some today. Maybe not the best, but I have part of an 8# from prior shot shell loading. No way to double charge!
PJ

[Dr.S]

these days take what powder you can get.Lately its been 700x around here.

[Cherokee]

WST - I use it in 9mm with good results.

[EDG]

You don't want just a single characteristic called fluffy.
You want fluffy and the right burn rate at the same time.
Fluffy can be defined as the specific gravity of the powder. The LOWER the specific gravity the more space a grain of powder will take up in the case. Specific gravity is the mass of the powder per CC compared to water. The specific gravity of water is always 1 - that is 1 CC of water always weighs 1 gram.

Pick all the powders with the right burn rate to produce the best ballistics.

Then order the powders from the most dense to the least dense.
Measure the volume of your case to the base of the bullet.

The least dense powder with the right burn rate that fills the case would be ideal.

Use a loading manual to give you maximum charges.
Pick out a fluffy powder and see if the max charge fits. If it does not fit go to the next more dense powder on the list.
I used this method for picking a powder for the .45 ACP and wound up using HS 6.

[tazman]

WST is good and does a good job of filling the case.
For light bullets in the 9mm I have been using Titewad(not Titegroup). It uses very small charges(2.9-3.4gr), burns very clean, and measures consistently. Even the small charges do a good job of filling the case to prevent double charges in 9mm.
You will not get max velocity with this powder but I get good accuracy with it. I mostly use it with 95-105 grain boolits where it is superb.

[crashguy]

I have used IMR 700x with good result in 9mm , although, it does not make power factor in my application, it does reliably function my gun and is generally soft shooting. It does not meter well for small charges in my Lee perfect powder measure so I dip to ensure a bit of consistency. For power factor loads I have been using HS-6 ( similar application as WST), it's not fluffy , but meters like a dream and makes power factor with little effort.

[EdS]

700X works well for me in this application. Plenty of volume in the 9mm brass with appropriate loads.

[Virginia John]

The best results I have had with a 9mm have been with W-231 or HP-38 (identical twins).

[1bluehorse]

Herco! Light charges almost fill the case, heavier ones are compressed loads. A max load will not fit into the case.



THIS...........you see all the guys advocating Unique....that's because they've never used Herco, which is in between Blue Dot and Unique....Herco does/will do anything Unique can just a bit better...."generally" it will take about 1gr. more of Herco to match Unique pressure but you'll gain a bit more velocity....it wasn't THAT many years ago that Herco was THE go to powder for the 9mm luger....

[ioon44]

AA #7 is another powder that will fill a 9X19 case.

[canyon-ghost]

Bullseye also won't double charge a case but, you can overpressure the 9mm. I use a load of 3.2 grains because I've been up the scale, no reason to increase it. At a point it gets too hot.

[oldfart1956]

I had it firmly stuck in my mind that in order to simplify life I was going to only use 2 powders. Unique and Bullseye. I can...actually. I figgered that way I'd just buy 8lb. jugs and life would be swell. Unfortunatly (or not) it hasn't worked out that way. I tried fluffy. TrailBoss. I can't get it to work consistently in any of my powder measures. ( Lee perfect/Auto-Pro and a Lyman 55) Some folks can, I can't. I don't have the time or patience to dip out powders and weigh each charge with pistol rounds. It has to go thru the Auto-Pro on the turret press. And it has to be consistant as checked with the chronograph. Bullseye did well...very well. Unique works puddy good as long as it isn't small doses. Above 7 grains...not an issue. Recently started working up loads for the 9mm. and one powder easy to find (and affordable at $19 per pound) was TiteGroup so I just hadda try it. Very consistant, no sticking or bridging and the chronograph showed every round running between 1050/1075 fps. This is the 9mm in a 1911 with the Lee .358-125 rnfp resized to 356 with an O.A.L. of 1.060. At the starting load you could double-charge a case but much above that you'd play hob getting a boolit seated without bulging a case. The downside of TiteGroup is there's a small window in which it works. For the 9mm. it is starts at 3.4gr. and max is at 3.8 so pay attention. That's with my boolits and oal so check your numbers. I also ran TiteGroup thru the .45acp and 24 rounds over the chronograph had every one between 777/780fps. That's a very consistant powder. I'll never give up Unique or Bullseye (too versatile) but I sure am impressed with TiteGroup. Audie...the longwinded Oldfart..

[prs]

Going for "lower power" 9mm loads for 3-Gun shooting, for my son. I'm looking for a some "fluffy" powder to avoid potential double load hazards. I'm using Trail Boss for my 45LC CAS shooting, but that's the only powder I know of that is 'safe' in small amounts. I'm guessing a 9mm will take about 3-4gr, but that small amoiunt is hard to see in the case whilst reloading. Thanks for watching.

Wally

Is it just me, or did many of the responders above lose track of the OP's goal? He wants a very soft shooting round that fills more than half of the case. Wally, I have NEVER reloaded 9mm, but IF a charge of Trailboss that fills the case to the point of just failing to compress the powder will cycle the action consistently, then you have your load. Is it going to be the most accurate load? I highly doubt that; but at least plink worthy and definitely soft of recoil and report. I do that exact same thing with 40 S&W and it works great and is plenty accurate for plinking in my Glock 23. That powder is almost white of color and very easy to see. Just fill the case to where the boolit base will touch, but not compress the fluffy stuff. Try a few rounds, if it cycles you have it made in the shade with a powder you already have on hand. Herco is a great powder, but where are you going to find any to buy? When I tried this doughnut like powder, I "knew" it would be lousy of consistency in the powder measures -- I was wrong. In my Pro-Auto measure it drops very consistently.

prs

[Houndog]

I use 4.5 Unique under a 124 Lee TC with any case or primer loaded to 1.060 OAL for my plinking load. It works well in all 6 of my nines AND makes PF for IDPA as well!

[hometownhero]

Sorry to bring up this old thread but...

I use unique right now for 9mm. Love how it fills the case. I would like to find something that I can actually get more then once every 5 years. So something in the hodgdon lie would be great. What would compare in case fill to unique? I have some titegroup but case fill is no place near what I would like. It sure is accurate though. Making max power doesn't really matter for me as in Canada we can only target shoot our pistols at an approved shooting range.
Suggestions???

[Greg S]

I mainly use Unique but Herco is very similar. Actually had better accurracy with it.

[retread]

During the last "shortage period" I could not get my usual choice of powders but Grafs had plenty of Vectan powders. I bought 8 lbs of Vectan AS. It is "light and fluffy" but does not jump out of the case when indexing the Dillon 550 like some other powders (ETR7) comes to mind. You will definitely notice a double charge. It would be hard to miss.

[Ole Joe Clarke]

Unique is a good choice, so is Herco, Green Dot, and so on. I've never had a problem finding Unique, have and use more of it than anything else. It's an old (like me) powder that works. I like the saying: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Have a blessed day,

Leon

[farmall666]

I use green dot works very good in my ruger SR9C

[hometownhero]

So no Hodgdon powders really? Alliant is very hard to get here in Canada. This unique I have now was some of the first Alliant powder we have seen since obuma got elected the first time. Hodgdon is pretty much always available someplace

[Mytmousemalibu]

I'll second Vectan AS, its great for lightly charged 9mm and the powder is cheap and available. Bonus their 1lb containers are sold as such but are actually 1.10lbs so you get a little bit extra. Overall low price and its really great powder. Im also loading 9mm with Ba9 and Ba9-1/2. The AS is a large trapezoidal flake powder and the Ba powders are short extruded stick, too big to leak, fine enough to meter like sugar. Never had metering problems with any Vectan yet, no leakage. The Ba powders meter very nice, doesn't sling out of the case while indexing.

[hometownhero]

I'll second Vectan AS, its great for lightly charged 9mm and the powder is cheap and available. Bonus their 1lb containers are sold as such but are actually 1.10lbs so you get a little bit extra. Overall low price and its really great powder. Im also loading 9mm with Ba9 and Ba9-1/2. The AS is a large trapezoidal flake powder and the Ba powders are short extruded stick, too big to leak, fine enough to meter like sugar. Never had metering problems with any Vectan yet, no leakage. The Ba powders meter very nice, doesn't sling out of the case while indexing.

Don't get that in Canada.

[opos]

I'll probably get flamed hard for this one but while "fluffy powder" is one way to "skin a cat" of potential overloads.....proper loading techniques and checking would seem to be the proper answer...that way when powder get's tough the loader is properly schooled in the right loading methods and can concentrate on loading what is available.

I load Trail Boss on occasion...Unique for years..etc but there are many times another powder makes for a much more effective load for what I'm intending to do...a simple example would be a 200 grain LRNFP (coated) in my 45acp using W231 (load density is in several places so I won't list it here)...it's a load that meters great, is accurate in my CZ 97, is nice shooting and simply does exactly what I want..I guess I could double load or overcharge but so far (and I never get cocky) I've been right on with it for some years now.

I just think the use of "fluffy powder" can sometimes be used as a safety valve for poor loading technique and I am personally opposed to that..

my 2 cents

[Beef15]

Reddot. It's still Alliant though.

Recoil differences with the same weight bullet are dependent on powder charge weight to an extent. Most of the slower powders offer more case fill because you need more by weight to reach the same velocities, more weight equals more recoil.

Reddot at 2.6gr (you might want more, I'm loading a 155) has a 9x19mm case over half full. You could overcharge if you weren't paying any attention, you'd be blind to miss anything approaching a double charge.

I load a lot small charges of fast dense powders, but do enjoy being able to see my powder charge without having to look straight down in the case.

[retread]

Don't get that in Canada.

The actual brand is Nobel Sport. Might try looking under that name. They have a whole range of powders for pistol and rifle.

[rockrat]

Universal clays possibly

[hometownhero]

The actual brand is Nobel Sport. Might try looking under that name. They have a whole range of powders for pistol and rifle.

Still have never seen that for sale.
What we get from most available to least.
Hodgdon/imr
Winchester (yes I know same ownership)
Vihtavuori
Alliant
Ramshot/accurate

And vihtavoury is the most expensive with the others not far behind at $40-50 a pound

[jmort]

I love Unique. But if I can't find it, Universal. Most every powder fills up a 9mm case.

[Mytmousemalibu]

I havent tried it for light loads but Ramshot Silhouette is one of my favorite 9mm powders. That's my powder of choice for my USPSA 9mm Major loads but it does just fine for a standard power loading. It is really fine powder and it can leak from some measures.

stinks about the Vectan/nobel sport, its really decent and easier on the wallet. It's a popular European powder, French if i'm not mistaken.

[paul h]

Sorry to bring up this old thread but...

I use unique right now for 9mm. Love how it fills the case. I would like to find something that I can actually get more then once every 5 years. So something in the hodgdon lie would be great. What would compare in case fill to unique? I have some titegroup but case fill is no place near what I would like. It sure is accurate though. Making max power doesn't really matter for me as in Canada we can only target shoot our pistols at an approved shooting range.
Suggestions???

Try Universal, it's what I've been using in place of Unique since Unique became unobtanium.

[GhostHawk]

Red dot in everything here. Although I have tried others nothing else is so universal that it works on everything, nor as thrifty as Red Dot.

[hometownhero]

Local shop had cfe pistol or hs-6. Picked up some hs-6 to try out.

[Kevin Rohrer]

Unique

Gee, took for ever to find the chart.

http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/powder.pdf



Excellent chart, but needs to be updated. It does not include 8208 and newer powders.

[jcren]

Local shop had cfe pistol or hs-6. Picked up some hs-6 to try out.



I don't load for 9, but hs-6 is one of my favorite in .380 and full power 230 grain 45 acp. In 45, 7 grains under Lee's tc boolit is accurate, stout and tends to shoot above the sights.

[kmw1954]

I'll probably get flamed hard for this one but while "fluffy powder" is one way to "skin a cat" of potential overloads.....proper loading techniques and checking would seem to be the proper answer...that way when powder get's tough the loader is properly schooled in the right loading methods and can concentrate on loading what is available.

I just think the use of "fluffy powder" can sometimes be used as a safety valve for poor loading technique and I am personally opposed to that..

my 2 cents

Not meant as a flame but just another point of view.

I've been loading 9mm with HP-38 and recently acquired a new Lee Auto Drum measure. While doing some accuracy drop tests with this new measure I also decided to do another test.

The HP-38 in 9mm with a 124gr bullet has a load spread of just 0.6gr from start to max. Not a lot of room there for a mistake. So I loaded some cases with my target weight of 4.2gr and then loaded some at 4.0 and 4.4gr and put them all together next to one another. With the naked eye I could not discern one load from the other. So at the max load of 4.4gr it would be quite easy to over charge a case and not even know it just by looking at it.

[mdi]

I use Unique in many of my 9mm reloads, and have used Blue Dot on occasion (both bulkier than W231).

And excuse me, but I gotta say; learn to use good safe reloading practices from the get-go and you'll be able to use any powder for it's performance, not it's "safety/faux pas" factor. If you use a progressive press it may be a bit more involved avoiding double charges, but it's done every day by many reloaders. Since my first OOPS! in 1970, I have looked in every case I've charged and use methods to avoid double charging (charging off press, two loading blocks, powder cop, etc.). I have had zero doubles or squibs since...

[kmw1954]

, I have looked in every case I've charged and use methods to avoid double charging (charging off press, two loading blocks, powder cop, etc.). I have had zero doubles or squibs since...

I have never used a powder cop so please tell me, How accurate are they? Will it detect a variation of 0.1 or 0.2gr?

[jetinteriorguy]

I have used HP38, Accurate #5, Red Dot, Green Dot, HS-6, 700X, Titegroup, and Clays all in 9mm with pretty good success. Of all these Clays would best fit your requirements. Accurate, soft shooting, and fills the case enough to prevent a double charge. Also very good economical, a little goes a long way.

[mdi]

I have never used a powder cop so please tell me, How accurate are they? Will it detect a variation of 0.1 or 0.2gr? I don't use (need) one but I doubt if one could determine a .1-.2 grain difference. But what would, besides a scale? Fluffy powder or ball, what would find a .2 gr. difference in a charge other than a scale?

[kmw1954]

I don't use (need) one but I doubt if one could determine a .1-.2 grain difference. But what would, besides a scale? Fluffy powder or ball, what would find a .2 gr. difference in a charge other than a scale?

Which is probably why I never bothered with one myself. I used to scale every charge until I got a measure. Now I watch my loads carefully while loading, chose my powders wisely, don't get in a hurry and trust my measure. The most important thing to me is to establish a repeatable routine and do not deviate from it.

I don't use powders that are super fast as they are less forgiving, especially in small cases like the 9mm or 380 as pressures can jump drastically with even a small over charge. I can also understand some of us older people wanting a powder that fills the case more fully because it's easier for our old eye to see inside the case. With a powder like HP-38 or W231 a double charge will fill the case and be quite obvious as should be no charge at all. So if someone misses either of those conditions then they just are not paying attention.

The last thing any of us wants it to hear that someone was injured because of a freak or careless accident.

[3jimbo3]

Try Universal, it's what I've been using in place of Unique since Unique became unobtanium.


I have no no problem getting Unique, did they quit making it? I haven't heard anything about it being in short supply, just bought a pound a couple of months back. They were out of Bullseye is the reason I picked it up. I myself use either Bullsye or Unique for 9mm with very good results from both powders.