PDA

View Full Version : See if this works! what do you think?



Freightman
02-13-2008, 06:49 PM
I went to Harbor Freight this morning and they had a set of punches for $3.99 so I got them and came home and punched out some for the base of a Lyman 300 g .458 boolit, out of a Folgers plastic coffee can.Then laid them out on a flat serface and put a drop of super glue in the middle of each, then set the boolits on them. Going to tyry it may cause a problem cleaning up but might protect the base of the boolit.
What do you think? This is more fun than chasing cars!!

joejr
02-13-2008, 06:53 PM
doesn't plastic have a lower melting point than lead?

oneokie
02-13-2008, 07:01 PM
Smokeless or BP? Worth a try for a learning experience.

leftiye
02-13-2008, 07:05 PM
As for cars, you'll probly catch more of 'em if you take them head on..............

montana_charlie
02-13-2008, 07:15 PM
I assume that is a set of hollow punches.
Which one did you use to make the base wads...the 7/16ths?
CM

Freightman
02-13-2008, 07:21 PM
That is right there are eight up to 1/2"
I also did a coke can for AL bases, we will se what happnes.
I get bored hitting the 10 and X ring every time need to change up things for variety. Life is to short to take seriously!

JIMinPHX
02-13-2008, 07:32 PM
Federal used to make Ny-clads. They were a soft lead core with a Nylon jacket. Those shot pretty well & the barrel cleaned up real easily. I think that coffee can lids are usually LDPE, not Nylon. I’m not sure what plastic the sabots in the .30 cal Accelerator rounds from Remington are made out of. Let us know how that works out.

Thanks,
Jim

Freightman
02-13-2008, 08:26 PM
This is not the lid i cut a piece of the side aprox 1/8" thick.

Lead melter
02-13-2008, 08:42 PM
Over the past summer I read the Toby Bridges book, "Muzzleloading Big Game Rifles." He stated thet he got erratic results in his .50 caliber smokepoles in warm weather from loads that were very accurate in cold weather.

His trial an error solution was to trim the lower cup [read-against the powder] from a 28 gauge shotshell wad and place it between the powder and the sabot. With this technique his performance came back into the stable load as in cold weather.

I bought a bag of the wads from the local shooting club, about $8 for 500 and tried it, but could never get them trimmed just flush, so my results were not spectacular. With the use of a punch, it might be a bit easier to get a smooth cut.

Maybe you could give this a try. If you can't find any wads, send a PM and I'll donate some for experimentation.

wills
02-13-2008, 09:25 PM
Low Density Polyethylene is sometimes used for BPCR wads, but the boolit is firmly seated against the powder and the wads are not glued to the base of the boolit, in fact a newspaper wad is usually used between a wad and boolit to prevent the wad from adhering to the boolit base.

montana_charlie
02-13-2008, 10:23 PM
...and those wads (in .45 caliber) are .460" in diameter...not 7/16ths (.437").

I'd say your wads are too small to protect the corners of your .458" bullet bases.
CM

mooman76
02-13-2008, 10:49 PM
I got some sheets of soft foam about 1/8" thick with a sticky backing I was going to try the same thing to. I just have to p/u some hole punches!

Wayne Smith
02-14-2008, 08:58 AM
Buffaloarms.com has the proper sized punches, and has punches that you can mount on your press so you don't make so much noise! I use them in my 40/70 but not in my 44-40 with BP.

Freightman
02-14-2008, 10:19 AM
I only tried it with a few to see if possable, thoes are PB boolits , Think ai will shoot them in my Buffalo Classic to see how it works. Thank uou for the information about punches at Buffalo Arms, will ck with them.
Actually bought the punches to put some holes in some leather.

mroliver77
02-15-2008, 02:38 PM
One can use a sharpened case to cut also. I have used these frieghtman and they do help to reduce leading in a peestol I had that was prone to lead. I have used thin "cookies" (afraid I'll get flamed if I call them wads)from foam meat trays with good results. I also use the foam to hold powder to the casehead in 45-70 with plinkster loads. I have been chastised that I will ring my chamber. OK.
J

Freightman
02-15-2008, 02:43 PM
Well you will not be the only one, and probley not the first.

mroliver77
02-15-2008, 03:35 PM
Well you will not be the only one, and probley not the first.

My skin is not too thin. :)

DLCTEX
02-15-2008, 07:56 PM
I would think the glue counter productive and unnecessary. The foam works well in shot cartridge loads, but these are low pressure. Experimentation is fun and I really hate it when someone tells me "that won't work" 'cause they obviously haven't tried it in every possible way, so hang in there and keep experimenting. let us know what you discover. Dale

Bret4207
02-16-2008, 09:37 AM
doesn't plastic have a lower melting point than lead?

Yup, but there has to be enough time for the heat to melt it. The pressure may abrade or erode it, just as it does with lead, but the heat may not have time to actually MELT the plastic, or the lead for that matter. Been a pet peeve of mine for years that "lead bullets melt and that gives you leading". I don't think thats what happens. I think it's gas pressure erosion and vaporization that gives us leading, not heat itself.

This is just my opinion/theory and worth exactly what you paid for it.:coffee:

Bigjohn
02-16-2008, 06:45 PM
Been a pet peeve of mine for years that "lead bullets melt and that gives you leading". I don't think thats what happens. I think it's gas pressure erosion and vaporization that gives us leading, not heat itself.

This is just my opinion/theory and worth exactly what you paid for it.:coffee:

That's my understanding of the situation, otherwise known as "Gas cutting" which can also occur on the top strap of a revolver above the cylinder gap.

This is also not the first time I have heard of using disks of plastic between the projectile base and powder charge. A fellow shooter I know in ADELAIDE is trying out the same thing in .38 Spl/.357 Mag. I don't know what his results have been like but he does not glue them on to the boolit. He just seats them level in the case mouth just before seating the boolits in place.

John

leftiye
02-16-2008, 10:37 PM
You should try a card of hard wax like castor wax, or Carnauba. It will protect the boolit base from heat (melting), and also seal the boolit against blow by (gas cutting) as it gets forced into the boolit/barrel interface. Also, it will coat the bore and improve lubrication (reduce leading further). If you use a hard enough wax, and keep it from getting too hot, it will not contaminate your powder (maybe a piece of plastic film, or card paper under the wax).

lovedogs
02-16-2008, 11:15 PM
Years ago when I was friends with one of the big shots at Dan Wesson Arms he sent me some sheets of red waxy stuff to experiment with. After dropping the powder into the case you just pressed the wax sheet over the mouth of the case to cut it and put it into the charged case, then seated the bullet. He said it was to prevent leading. I don't know what that waxy stuff was. Some sort of special wax, I guess. Anyway, it worked like a charm. He never did tell me what it was or if I could get any more of it. He left DWA shortly afterwards and I lost track of him.

Duckdog
02-17-2008, 10:42 AM
Wouldn't some thin wool felt work just as good as most for this? I use it not only in muzzloaders, but also in the steel shot I reload. I've also thought of trying it as a gas check. I was going to heat some liquid alox and let it cool. Then just as it is about to set up, I would place it on the case of the bullet. I make my own cutters, as mentioned, from old nickel cases with the primer hole reamed out so I can insert a small bolt for a drill or drill press.

I have also been thinking about cutting some checks out of card stock, and treating them with alox, and running them through a Lee sizer to "seat" them on the bullets.

I agree that the plastic check will not have time to melt, as it is no different than a shotgun shell, and or wad.

Let us know how it turns out.

Nueces
02-17-2008, 04:17 PM
lovedogs (me, too :drinks:), I believe you are talking about soft gas checks, once marketed by CF Ventures, now by Cliff's Gunsmithing, in Utah:

http://www.cliffsgunsmithing.com/Cat_SGC.htm

Some have opined that the sheets are no more than dental wax:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-8121.html

A Google search for 'dental wax' turns up stuff that appears to be the same.

I have a box of the CFV version, which I intend to use with Keith bullets in 38-44 loads, but have not done so yet. Glad to hear they worked for you.

Mark

mroliver77
02-17-2008, 06:02 PM
You should try a card of hard wax like castor wax, or Carnauba. It will protect the boolit base from heat (melting), and also seal the boolit against blow by (gas cutting) as it gets forced into the boolit/barrel interface. Also, it will coat the bore and improve lubrication (reduce leading further). If you use a hard enough wax, and keep it from getting too hot, it will not contaminate your powder (maybe a piece of plastic film, or card paper under the wax).
This has worked very well for me. I have used the CF Ventures "Soft Checks" and am very satisfied with performance but they are pricey. I have made my own out of stiffend FWFL and it also worked well. Gund forced to shoot undersized boolits were sealed well and leading negated using these. I also shot unlubed boolits in a 8mm Mauser with the softcheck under the boolit and all was well. As far as boolit bases melting, not at .38 special +P loads it dont. I have recovered many plain base boolits that have lube on the bottom yet. Once took a piece of paper and LLA glued it to a boolit base. Paper was unburnt after firing boolit. Pressure sure flattens it though.
J

Scrounger
02-17-2008, 06:16 PM
Didn't someone say that you could get the same stuff cheaper at McMaster-Carr?

Greg5278
02-17-2008, 07:41 PM
Why don't you thinkabout using cork? It shouldn't foul the bore as much.
Greg