Getting rid of my problem with un-burned powder

[Jevyod]

I have another thread going discussing my problems with my 45-70. In that thread, I mentioned that it seems like I am having some problem with un-burned powder. I would like to get rid of this if I can. From what I have read, it seems like I have a few things to try. First of all, is upping the charge of powder. Currently I am using 36 grains of IMR 4198 (420 grain bullet). Secondly, I read that possibly a heavier crimp would help. Or maybe I should start over with 3031. Any thoughts? I would like to get this ironed out soon as season opens Monday!

[smokeywolf]

I would suggest looking at the reloading data on Hodgdon's website.

Some powders are known for leaving behind unburned granules at lower pressures; 5744 is notorious for this. Although a little wasteful perhaps, it rarely if ever affects accuracy.

smokeywolf

[WALLNUTT]

If the load is accurate why would you care?

[rockshooter]

Agree with Wallnut. I just tip the barrel down and blow the powder out. In .223, however, I found that a heavy crimp and magnum SR primers cleared up the unburned powder issues.
Loren

[crabo]

Use 40 grains of 3031 and a tuft of dacron, accurate, not punishing, and about 1400fps out of my guide gun.

[Malamute]

I had a fair amount of unburned powder, and ended up sticking a bullet with 4198 powder and a 300 gr jacketed bullet. The powder was clumped up and weird looking after the shot. I went to 3031, still some unburned powder. A bit of folded up toilet paper made it go away, as does a small tuft of Dacron. Running the case closer to full loading density helps a lot also, but many don't want to shoot loads at that level, they aren't as much fun for many of us. 53 gr 3031 w/ 400 gr bullet burns very clean, and kicks quite a bit.

[Scharfschuetze]

Jevyod,

What is the goal with your loads velocity wise?

Different power or velocity levels will often suggest which powder to choose.

[Jevyod]

Well to be honest I was hoping for 1600 fps.

[JSnover]

Something is too light. Use a heavier boolit, a heavier crimp or a heavier charge.

[Thompsoncustom]

Throwing your stuff in quickload makes me think it's the powder. If you want it to burn super clean get VihtaVuori N110 or Hodgdon H110 and you'll be at 100% burn with the max charge or really close to it, with 4198 your only at 90% which still isn't that bad.

Down side is the max charge on both those powders with only yield you 1500fps.

[stephen m weiss]

If you want to stay at 1600fps and use those powders, and burn all your powder, you need reduced case volume. The easy way to test this is to drop to 2/3 the charge that gives you the desired speed, then top off the case with cream of wheat, rice, or grits. Rice is best if you are using a dipper and not automatic powder measure equipment, especially with larger diameter cases like 45-70. Rice has the highest stacking density so you can end up with the lowest powder charge at that speed. Crush the rice down as you seat the bullet. Your speed will come out about the same, but you will use less powder and burn all of it. The pressure will be higher, about 20ksi, and will seal your case mouth so you wont get soot and fouling in the action.

So, to be clear, I think that about 24 grains of 4198 with as much rice as will freely fit in the case on top (without sticking up past the throat), and crush the rice down with your 420 grain bullet. The rice will raise the pressure and temperature at burn so all the powder burns, scrub the bore so no unburned powder or excess lube remains, protect the base of the bullet, and save you 30% on powder cost. Use a shield in front of your crony if you put it within 20ft of your muzzle. The rice comes out at a 30 degree cone and peppers everything. I use a bit of clear plastic OJ jug cut out and taped in front. It stops the rice just fine. Another warning is wipe off excess liquid lube from your barrel. The rice gets crushed to flour and will get stuck if you have lots of sticky lube. Lube and wipe with dry patch works fine for cleaning. After 50 shots with rice, you will still have a clean dry bore.

I have a separate thread about reduced volume cases right now where I am developing a technique so the rice wont be required. It's using rubber poured permanent filler and results in even more powder savings, so you would only need about 19 grains of powder. But it's still in development so I can't recommend it yet.

There are different approaches to this problem. I recommend trying them out and going with what makes sense to you. Some posters always recommend to use lots of expensive powder that isn't even available. I prefer to just learn how to use the powder I have correctly by understanding its nature.

[WALLNUTT]

My best load in 45/70 is 28gr of 4198 behind any CB from 300gr to 525gr. No fillers,no wads,no problems.

[Doc Highwall]

If the load is accurate why would you care?

^This is more important^

[Scharfschuetze]

As alluded to by Rockshooter in a previous post above, you might try a magnum primer. Back off of your current load 10% and then work back up with a hotter primer. Federal magnum large rifle primers have proven to be the hottest in my experience and are a good choice for cold weather hunting. They are also good spark plugs for black powder loads.

As your load is for hunting, I understand you not wanting partially burned debris in you action. I have a Marlin 1895 and it has proven itself to be susceptible to jamming when using powders that don't burn fully and thus foul the action and chamber and then prevent the action from going into battery on chambering. Early lots of 5744 were particularly troublesome with tying up the Marlin as well as causing problems with even the high leverage Trapdoor actions.

I can't comment on your heavy 420 grain boolit with 3031 as my high performance loads for the 45/70 use a 350 grain bullet with 3031 powder. I've not noted any issues with this powder at Marlin or 1886 Winchester pressure levels using standard primers, but it wouldn't hurt to try a hotter primer to preclude your issue.

Good luck on your opening day hunt!