.44 Mag Ruger SBH and reloading ?'s

[Babbott213]

Fairly new to reloading. Under two years. I've been using Unique powder since I started loading and started with my .44 mag. My wheel gun is a Ruger SBH stainless with a 10.5" barrel. I checked the load data on the Alliant web page for loads for the .44mag and their info there is not much info. I'm using a 210gr JHP boolit. The powder load is suggested at 12.5gr. What would be a maximum load for this gun? I had a gunsmith at a local gun shop where I buy my reloading supplies and he said that 15gr would be a good hot load. Thoughts? Any experience with running Unique at this amount in a .44Mag?

I also have a .44Mag in a DE as well and would like to load for both if possible. I know the DE likes the loads on the hot side. I've rand some through at 12gr of unique and it seemed to run through the mags ok but can I go any higher. Again, I am new and like to take baby steps. I do keep logs of every batch I load. For the DE I know that a clean burning powder is important due to the gas ports.

[44MAG#1]

That 12.5 gr load is max according to Speer data.
Do yourself a favor and get some education on reloading.
It would be safer to you AND the person next to you at the range.
Stay away from the "Einstien" that you talked to at the local gun shop too.

[Babbott213]

Why do you think I'm here and asking questions?

[Fishman]

The best approach would be to get two or three reloading manuals and review their data to arrive at a good starting load which ypu work up from. While it is lots of fun to discuss loads with others, this is the best way to work up a load that is safe in your gun.

I like Unique in my .44 but don't push it.

If you really must have maximum loads, I would recommend H110. It is different from Unique in that it should be reduced no more than 3%.

Welcome to the forum!

[Thumbcocker]

Stick with book data and do not improvise. If you want more velocity go to slower powders like 2400, H110, or AA#9. Start at starting loads and work up. Max in your particulr gun may be less than max in the book. My experience is that best accuracy is somewhat less than max loads. Most here load for accuracy first and don't worry so muchabout speed.

[DougGuy]

Jeez 12.5gr Unique in a .44 Magnum? I know it's published data but that would be a MAX load no doubt. In .45 Colt, for instance, with a 255gr boolit, 10.0gr Unique is dangerous because Unique at this charge weight can become spiky and unpredictable. This powder can be scary at times if you are not really careful and double checking your data you could get in trouble with it pretty quick.

Beside published data, John Taffin writes a good article outlining his choices of powders and boolit weights. I think you will find it goes right along with what many of us have used in this caliber, and still use today, and would consider "traditional" loads.

http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt44mag.htm

I would urge you to separate Unique and your SBH, and move to some of the more traditional slow burning powders listed in this article IF you can find some. Reason being that the .44 really comes into it's own as a hunting cartridge with heavier boolits, and Unique's burn rate is too fast for these heavy boolits. The norm boolit weight for hunting with .44 magnum is 240gr, and I think the Unique data at Alliant stops just short of that with the 225gr boolit and 11.0gr powder.

You have a 10.5" barrel, loads that are 85% of max will yield velocities near the same as max loads in shorter barrels. Take advantage of this and find some loads that are accurate and shoot well.

We welcome you here at the forum, and THANK GOD you came here first instead of stoking a case with 15.0gr Unique and touching it off! DO NOT do this.. Whoever told you that, is someone you should NOT take seriously when it comes to reloading..

[oger]

I agree that unique is not really the best powder for anything close to serious loads for 44mag. I've shot the same pistol you have for 30years and use H-110 for j-word boolets and IMR-4227 for cast almost exclusively. The little loading I have done for the DE showed it required with in 10% of max loads to be reliable with H-110.

[William Yanda]

"I had a gunsmith at a local gun shop where I buy my reloading supplies and he said that 15gr would be a good hot load"

I had two thoughts on this. Is this "gunsmith" trying to create some business for himself? and Would you(the gunsmith) demonstrate that for me in your gun, please?

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I shoot 10 gr of Unique in my SBH with 240 gr cast boolits. It's pretty light but does everything I need to do. I'd stick with Unique, not even think about pushing it hotter, and then get into casting your own lead. That's when you'll really find your SBH rewarding.

The above posts advising you to switch to slower burning powders for higher velocities are right on. I've found Blue Dot and 2400 excellent performers for higher velocity in the SBH, I've just gotten away from seeking higher velocities personally.

[Babbott213]

Thanks for the responses. As I stated I'm still learning and will be trying out some different powders along the way.

As as far as the range I go to, I have it all to my self. My back yard plus 20 acres and no one behind me for miles. Been shooting here since I was a kid.

As as for the gunsmith, he's been in the business for a long time and has a very large reputable shop and does have a extensive loading center where he loads and has books and books of his load data that he has done himself. He still has both hands with all. 11 fingers intact.

12gr of unique is about where I stay with my loads to date. I've shot about 200 rounds at that load so far.

I will ill be giving the H110 a try soon. As far as the DE goes, I want to stay with good clean powders so to advoid blocking the gas tube up with junk.

Again, thanks for all the information so far. If you have anymore, send it along. I'm listening.

[Babbott213]

Thanks! I like the flame that the unique produces as well. To date I haven't tried any slower burning powders.

[DougGuy]

The only note I would add to this, is to not download H110. They advise in the load data not to download more than 3% because this powder needs a high load density to burn safely. If you are heading for the 75% ~ 90% of the power band of your .44 magnum, 2400 and LilGun are excellent choices for this power level and work well with heavy boolits in the 1200fps velocity range. H110 is the king of the hill for top end loads.

[Outpost75]

You are getting good advice. Unique is best for "medium velocity" loads, not for maximum velocity. If you need more velocity than you will get with 10-12 grains with a 215-grain bullet, you should get a more suitable powder such as H110, 296, etc.

But most field and recreational shooting can be done with milder loads equivalent to .44-40 or. 45 Colt levels. Game hasn't gotten any harder to kill. Improve your fieldcraft and marksmanship instead of increasing your load.

[30calflash]

I shoot 10 gr of Unique in my SBH with 240 gr cast boolits. It's pretty light but does everything I need to do. I'd stick with Unique, not even think about pushing it hotter, and then get into casting your own lead. That's when you'll really find your SBH rewarding.

The above posts advising you to switch to slower burning powders for higher velocities are right on. I've found Blue Dot and 2400 excellent performers for higher velocity in the SBH, I've just gotten away from seeking higher velocities personally.

I used 10 grains of Unique in my 7 1/2 " barreled SBH silhouette loads years ago. Lyman #429421 cast of WW, air cooled, CCI primer and Federal brass. The load didn't punish you thru 40 or 60 rounds, cases fell out of the chambers and every ram that was hit by it fell.

As mentioned get a few loading current manuals and start a little lower. Have fun and be safe.

[44man]

The boolit is too light for the .44 at the start. The Ruger comes to life with 240 to over 300 GR boolits. Unique is for can shooting and 7 gr with a 240 or 250 is enough. Go to 296 for hunting.
To search for more velocity with Unique is folly. Do you like your gun or prefer scrap metal?
NO to 4227's, Heat sensitive in the .44. 2400 or 296 only.

[DougGuy]

BTW, W296 and H110 are the same exact powder, made in the same plant, they just put two different labels on it when it ships. They are 100% interchangeable in load date also.

[williamwaco]

Fairly new to reloading. Under two years. I've been using Unique powder since I started loading and started with my .44 mag. My wheel gun is a Ruger SBH stainless with a 10.5" barrel. I checked the load data on the Alliant web page for loads for the .44mag and their info there is not much info. I'm using a 210gr JHP boolit. The powder load is suggested at 12.5gr. What would be a maximum load for this gun? I had a gunsmith at a local gun shop where I buy my reloading supplies and he said that 15gr would be a good hot load. Thoughts? Any experience with running Unique at this amount in a .44Mag?

I also have a .44Mag in a DE as well and would like to load for both if possible. I know the DE likes the loads on the hot side. I've rand some through at 12gr of unique and it seemed to run through the mags ok but can I go any higher. Again, I am new and like to take baby steps. I do keep logs of every batch I load. For the DE I know that a clean burning powder is important due to the gas ports.

If Alliant says it is OK, you be the judge.

I consulted four manuals and I would advise 11.5 as maximum.

I would not try it in one of my guns, but I would be very surprised if 15 grains didn't blow the primer and expand the head.

[paul h]

Just to add a little bit to the discussion, the term "hot load" should be clarified. Some would consider a hot load to be one generating the highest velocity for a given bullet weight. But to me a hot load is one that generates a pressure higher than the round was designed for.

Unique is a wonderful powder for mild to medium velocities in the 44 mag and can produce excellent accuracy. The key is understanding that it is a medium burning rate handgun powder and as such is not capable of generating the highest velocities. However if you put too much of it in the case, you can generate dangerous pressures. And as mentioned, unique can produce pressure spikes when loaded "hot" so an extra 1/2 to grain of powder can generate much higher pressure peak than a lower lode. While the SBH is a very strong gun, it can be permanently disassembled with too much of the wrong powder.

http://www.reedercustomguns.net/forum/images/uploaded/2014073110245453da1976b69c4.jpg

My personal thought is if your goal is to get the highest velocities with light to medium weight 44 bullets, i.e. those 250 gr and lighter, 2400 is the powder to use. If you want top velocity with the heavy bullets, 270's and especially 300+, then H-110/W-296 is the powder to use.

One last thing, when a local or internet expert espouses powder loads over those published in loading manuals, it's a sign you should dismiss that "expert's" advice on most anything gun or reloading related.

[Alablam]

I'll give your gunsmith the benefit of the doubt and assume he heard Bluedot when you said Unique. I have shot 15 gr. of older Bluedot with Remington 210gr. and it wasn't a hot load, the cases fell out of the chamber by gravity. I think that the newer Bluedot supposedly is a little faster burning so 15gr. might be close to the maximum now. As to Unique and other powders, Unique has worked pretty good in my SBH but never has been the best powder. Even the slightly slower Herco gives better accuracy in my weapon.

[44man]

BTW, W296 and H110 are the same exact powder, made in the same plant, they just put two different labels on it when it ships. They are 100% interchangeable in load date also.
This is true, only lot numbers separated one from another. But on the range, there was a difference with 296 preferred in the Rugers and S&W's but the RH loved H110. I never got the RH to shoot 296 and never got the SBH or SRH to shoot H110.
Today with Hodgdon having both, I can't say. I still stay with 296.

[Char-Gar]

For what it matters, I concur that Unique is not for top end loads. I use 10/Unique over the 245 grain Keith bullet with good results and it will kill anything I need to shoot. The slower powders like 2400, AA9 and 296/H110 are the powders for full snort magnum loads.

[Tatume]

One last thing, when a local or internet expert espouses powder loads over those published in loading manuals, it's a sign you should dismiss that "expert's" advice on most anything gun or reloading related.

What he said!

[Airman Basic]

Haven't seen it mentioned, but 4227 is available and an excellent high-end choice for 44 mag. Start with 21 grains and work up to my hunting load of 25 grains with an RCBS 240 grain Keith cast SWC. Really don't think you can put enough 4227 in a 44 hull to make over pressure. You will know you're firing a magnum round, though. It's a forgiving powder and doesn't have the problems 296 does with too light loads.

[DougGuy]

44man posted once about 4227, and a changing point of impact as the barrel/cylinder kept getting hotter. Very peculiar, but then again so is the mystique of Unique when it's only half grain too much and the pressure spikes can equal 5 grains too much.. Strange idiosyncrasies we live with at the reloading bench.

[lino]

Lots of good advice here. Have been blessed to have Elmer Keith as friend and down the street neighbor. I stoked my first first Ruger SBH. with 24 grains of 2400. Both the gun and I survived. (Elmer used 22 grains). What I almost didn't survive was Elmer's colorful evaluation of my thought processes. Somewhere I settled on l0 grains of Unique which my SBH shoots very well. That is behind a 255 grain Keith style bullet. I have taken 14 head of big game with various hand guns over the years. What I have learned is that none of those animals could tell that I didn't shoot maximum loads. What counted most was a carefully placed shot at a range I was comfortable with.

[Alablam]

Thanks for the responses. As I stated I'm still learning and will be trying out some different powders along the way.

As as far as the range I go to, I have it all to my self. My back yard plus 20 acres and no one behind me for miles. Been shooting here since I was a kid.

As as for the gunsmith, he's been in the business for a long time and has a very large reputable shop and does have a extensive loading center where he loads and has books and books of his load data that he has done himself. He still has both hands with all. 11 fingers intact.

12gr of unique is about where I stay with my loads to date. I've shot about 200 rounds at that load so far.

I will ill be giving the H110 a try soon. As far as the DE goes, I want to stay with good clean powders so to advoid blocking the gas tube up with junk.

Again, thanks for all the information so far. If you have anymore, send it along. I'm listening.

__________________________________________________ ______

The Lyman 49'th edition shows a max. of 11.8 gr. Unique under a 210 gr. Silvertip for 38,200 CUP. A SBH is built like a tank but you might be at the squirrelly point where a tenth or two grains more powder may cause a extreme rise in pressure.

[phonejack]

10 grains of Unique and a 240 cast does everything I want out of a pistol.

[High Desert Hunter]

I agree with everyone else here, if you want more velocity from that bullet, 2400 or Blue Dot are logical choices. I use Unique with the 429421 bullets I cast for general purpose in my SBH, I switch to H110 if I want more velocity. Either way, I never aim for top speed, just top accuracy.

[Duckiller]

If you want a BIG ball of flame out of your DE use H110. Get a manual or check with Hodgdon' s web site for Max loads. Your gunsmith friend may have a gun with oversized dimensions that can handle over max loads. Don't care how experienced or knowledgeable he is he should NEVER recommend anyone using over max loads without carefully slowly working up to them with your own gun. Dimensions vary in every gun and every guns reacts differently to the same load. BELIEVE max loads in every manual you can get your hands on. It was maximum in the the test gun and may be over max in your gun. All maxs should be approached slowly and carefully. This is a fun hobby, just don't hurt your equipment or yourself.

[WALLNUTT]

You like the flame?!

[kweidner]

Personal thougt here 100 yd max effective kill range of 44 through a revolver. Any 240ish and heavier range projectile leaving at 1000+ fps will kill most anything in North America. Hotter is not going to make the intended target deader. Hotter might make it more effective for 10-15 yards but at the expense of what? ...... developing bad shooting habits and shortening the life of your gun. I strive for 1000-1200 fps in my .4s and 44s looking for the accuracy node and forget about how fast its going. JMHO. I believe accuracy is way more impportant than speed. If i can drive it into a couple inches or less at 100 yds with irons it's good to go.

[44man]

Accuracy is the king, nothing else matters. Too much power is a waste if you miss.

[Markbo]

OP if I may be so bold since I dony know you...you have been loading abot 2 years. Me about 8. Allow me please to give you one small bit if advice that helped me immensely when I started. Buy 3 reloding manuals. "The ABCs of Reloading", " Lyman Reloading Handbook" & one other of your choice. Speer, Lee, Hornady, etc.

Take the first and read it cover to cover. Take the first & read it cover to cover again, this time highlighting things of interest to you concerning your eqipment, your calibers of interest and safety information or whatever.

Take book 2 & repeat. Book 3 will be more specific to their bullets or powders depending on your preferences. Choose carefully. Only now should you choose & purchase equipment. Just an FYI...whatever you budget, double it. ;)

Start with one or two ONLY calibers of straight wall pistol cartridges. Start low and slowly work your way up in power. After a year or so add another caliber. After another year try a rifle cartridge if you care to.
-----

This is but a small fraction of what was told me here and was absolutely Key to my starting and continuing to load safely without incidents. It takes exactly ONE error to lose your sight, fingers or worse so if you think thatbat advice is too basic it is not. Now you may be beyond this start up advice but one thing has stuck with me...never go outside published book data high or low in YOUR manuals. Take ALL internet advice wuth a huge grain of salt. Its your *** and those around you on the line. Nit the typist.

All of the above is offered as friendly, helpful advice only. It helped me tremendously as did pages and pages of additional advice. Like "when you start thinking you know what you're doing is when you become dangerous". Above all...

Be safe
Mark

[Nicholas]

If you want more power, don't hotrod your gun, go to a moderate load in a bigger caliber. I personally prefer a moderate load in the 454 over the 44 for that reason.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

If you want more power, don't hotrod your gun, go to a moderate load in a bigger caliber. I personally prefer a moderate load in the 454 over the 44 for that reason.

yep better to down load then push a maximum load

[CLAYPOOL]

12 gauge reloads before steel shot. Blue dot straight up just before day light. lots of unburnt powder also coming down in your eyes. Wonder how I would know this..?

[EDK]

Blowing up a gun is not an experience I recommend. I had a stainless 44 magnum Original Size RUGER Vaquero come apart in my hand two years ago. Just got it back from an action job and a fitted SBH-Hunter grip frame. $1000 worth of pistol turned into $200 worth of spare parts. Flat out ruined my day. No injuries but to my pride and wallet. Price and availability on a replacement are terrible.
I've been reloading almost 50 years. I check data from every available source...preferably published by the powder manufacturer. Never thought it would happen to me.

[Airman Basic]

Blowing up a gun is not an experience I recommend. I had a stainless 44 magnum Original Size RUGER Vaquero come apart in my hand two years ago. Just got it back from an action job and a fitted SBH-Hunter grip frame. $1000 worth of pistol turned into $200 worth of spare parts. Flat out ruined my day. No injuries but to my pride and wallet. Price and availability on a replacement are terrible.
I've been reloading almost 50 years. I check data from every available source...preferably published by the powder manufacturer. Never thought it would happen to me.
Don't stop there! More details. Load, bullet, circumstances. Inquiring minds.

[paul h]

yep better to down load then push a maximum load

With the Ruger 44's, there is no need to download them. Published maximum loads are perfectly safe, you can run 10,000 of them through your gun and it won't be the worse for wear compared to a milder load.

And most importantly, if you're using H-110/W-296, don't download those powders or you run the very real risk of blowing up your gun. Conversely you'll find those powders tend to produce their best accuracy at their max levels.

[Babbott213]

Well here is what I done today. I had some time the past couple of days and worked with a few loads. Working with what I had in my inventory I loaded a few Boolits of 240 grain Speer JHP with 10 grain of Unique powder, 200 grain Hornady XTP with 10 grains of Unique powder, 200 grain Hornady XTP with 12 grains of Unique Powder, 180 grain Hornady XTP with 13 grains of Unique Powder and 14 grains of Unique powder.

I shot them all through my Desert Eagle as I wanted to see which ones had the force to push the slide all the way back to load a round from the magazine after firing a round.

The 240 grain JHP with 10 grains of Unique would not load a round from the mag after the first round was fired. Attempted it three times with no luck. Those I will shoot with my RSB.

The 200 grain JHP with 10 grain of unique had the same result.

The 200 grain JHP with 12 grain of unique would load at times and others, would not load. So those as well will be used for the RSB.


Then I tried the 180 grain JHP with 13 and 14 grains of Unique and man the DE worked flawless. I ran about 20 rounds of each through and did not experience not one bit of problems.


I'm out of 180 grain JHP's so I will probably not load anymore of those anyway. I like the 200-240 grain boolit weight anyway. Next I will be loading some rounds using H110. I picked a bottle up at the store the other day along with some more boolits. I knew the the DE needed a hot load as I have owed one before several years ago. I plan on starting with published load data first and see if they will work in the DE. I'll probably stay with the Unique for the SBH loads as I really like that powder right now. I write everything down as I go so I'm sure to have a running log on all the loads that I do.


I'll keep my loads for the two guns separated for sure and I'll keep the ones for the SBH under or at the max as I love my SBH. She is a beefy girl. One thing about the Ruger Vaquero is they are not a gun for heavy loads. More use in the Cowboy Loads.

Thanks for all the information guys. It has been helpful and I'm sure that I will be asking more in the future. I try to spend a little time a day doing searches and reading back in the deep pages of the site as well. This is not my first forum and probably not my last.

[Babbott213]

One question that I do have is this. With .44 Mag, is there a big difference in the load if I use No. 150 Federal primers or No. 155? Last time I bought primers, all they had was the Federal No. 155 in stock and I picked up a few boxes. When I first started loading for the .44 Mag I started out with the No. 150's. I know one is for Large Pistol and the other is for Magnum Pistols, but other than that I'm not real sure.

[Alablam]

One question that I do have is this. With .44 Mag, is there a big difference in the load if I use No. 150 Federal primers or No. 155? Last time I bought primers, all they had was the Federal No. 155 in stock and I picked up a few boxes. When I first started loading for the .44 Mag I started out with the No. 150's. I know one is for Large Pistol and the other is for Magnum Pistols, but other than that I'm not real sure.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________

155's are magnum primers and if you're using H-110/W-296 you'll probably need them. Don't go lower than recommended start grains and use a good crimp. A listing of primers:
http://www.handloads.com/misc/primers.asp

[Alablam]

Sometimes powder companies like to "forget" loadings with older powders. This site has old powder catalog listings:
http://castpics.net/dpl/

[Babbott213]

What part of the state are you located in Alablam?

[DougGuy]

I'll probably stay with the Unique for the SBH loads as I really like that powder right now.

Flirtin' with disaster using Unique to gain magnum velocities.. Jus sayin'.. fair warning.

[jmort]

I did not see that as his loads, e.g. 240 grain bullet with 10 grains of Unique, are not crazy. He said he was going to H110.

[DougGuy]

I did not see that as his loads, e.g. 240 grain bullet with 10 grains of Unique, are not crazy. He said he was going to H110.

H110 for the Desert Eagle. He said he was sticking with Unique for the SBH. Not saying it cannot be loaded safely with Unique, but everybody and their brother that's loaded for .44 magnum for very long knows that Unique is probably the last choice on the list for this caliber.

Alliant cuts off at 7.0gr for a 240gr LSWC with a COA of 1.605 yet they list 11.0gr for a 250gr Keith type LSWC seated to 1.71" COA so you really got to pay attention to the details as this is a rather fast burning powder with a known reputation for being spiky and unpredictable at near max charges.

[jmort]

Pistols and Revolvers44 Rem. Magnum

240 gr Speer GDHP
Unique
CCI 300


http://www.alliantpowder.com/images/product_images/reloaders_guide/unique.jpg




Minimum OAL(inches)
Bbl Length
Primer
Powder
Charge Weight
grains)
Velocity
(fps)


1.575
8.3
CCI 300
Unique (http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/unique.aspx)
10.3
1,175




Nothing wrong with Unique and a .44 Mag

[Babbott213]

I've had people brag on Unique and others bash it. I think it's all personal preference myself. I've found a good load for my Stainless SBH and a good load for the DE for now. As far as the Stainless SBH, I've taken Unique up to 14 grains with a 200 grain JHP and had no pleoblem other than a sore wrist. Cases fell out of the cylinder with ease and no flattening or bulging of the primers at all. But I could tell that it was a very hot load. Hence why I backed off on the loads a bit. But as far as the DE goes, it needs a hot load to move that heavy slide back all the way.

[Babbott213]

10gr of unique with a 240gr boolit wouldn't even push the slide back enough on the DE to grab the next round from the mag. That can't be max. Maybe for a standard revolver. Even my SBH is a tank. Solid smooth thick walled cylinder. I can't see a problem with 10-12 grains from her not one bit.

In the near future I plan on getting a chronograph so I can see what my velocities are for these loaded rounds as well.

[jmort]

Now I am with the notion that you are posting loads that are off the books. Good luck.

[DougGuy]

Chronys are a great aid. Myself, I wish I had quickload to go with mine.

[Alablam]

I've had people brag on Unique and others bash it. I think it's all personal preference myself. I've found a good load for my Stainless SBH and a good load for the DE for now. As far as the Stainless SBH, I've taken Unique up to 14 grains with a 200 grain JHP and had no pleoblem other than a sore wrist. Cases fell out of the cylinder with ease and no flattening or bulging of the primers at all. But I could tell that it was a very hot load. Hence why I backed off on the loads a bit. But as far as the DE goes, it needs a hot load to move that heavy slide back all the way.
__________________________________________________ __________________
Looking at old Alliant data for the 200 grainer they show a max. of 13 gr. for 34,400psi, so you are probably spiking well over 40,000.
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44%20Magnum&Weight=200&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

The load for 240gr. jmortimer shows 34900 psi. a couple more grains and i have no clue what the pressure would be. Someone with quickload might have an educated guess.

Desert Eagles are gas operated so they need the correct amount of gas to operate, and Unique won't give the right volume at the right pressures. Oh yeah, I live in the Muscle Shoals area.

[Babbott213]

Ok then, your not too far from me then. Are you a member of Bama Carry yet?

As as for the DE, I'm moving to the H110 powder and the 200-240 grain Boolits.

With the SBH I'll continue with the Unique powder till it's gone and I'll load at the 10-12 grain range. Right now I don't have nothing loaded over 12 grain and that is with the 180 grain XTP Boolits and I have a few of the 240 speers loaded at 10 grains.

I think I've gotten a hundred or so empty cases I can load with the 200 grain XTP Boolits and use the H110 powder and the No. 150 primers for the DE.

I want ant to get to a point of only using one or two different powders for my pistol rounds so I don't have all different kinds of powders all over the place.

Ill lol be out in LA all next week so I won't be able to load anymore until after I get back anyway. But I do have enough cases cleaned and ready for loading when I get back though.

[44man]

I started with the flat top in 56 and my current one is the silhouette SBH model bought when it came out, early 80's. It might have 50 light loads through it and the rest were IHMSA loads and for years now 310 to 330 gr hunting boolits, all with 296. I quit counting primers when I reached 76,000.
There is zero measurable wear other then the sand blasting on the cone edges.
If you wear a Ruger with heavy loads, you shoot a dry gun. Put STP on the pin, ratchet and front bushing. The gun will outlive us.
The light loads were a 245 RCBS and 7 gr of Unique. Good for cans but I hunt mostly with it. My heavy boolit loads run 1316 fps ave.
I would not mess with Unique if you want any velocity. The gun thrives on 296 and a Fed 150 primer or CCI 300. You do NOT need or want a mag primer. H110 is the same powder.

[singleshot]

I have to disagree on one point in this thread. With heavy boolits (310 grain Lee) my Ruger SBH really likes 4227 for both velocity and accuracy.

[EDK]

Don't stop there! More details. Load, bullet, circumstances. Inquiring minds.

7.0 TITEGROUP, NOE plain base lube groove clone of RANCH DOG 265 grain, loaded on a 550B DILLON. Scared the $%^& out of me at first and then I wanted to cry...just got the pair of them back from ALPHA PRECISION. Probably a double charge.
Reloading distracted is like driving distracted. I retired in January 2012; gun blew up in July; got presented divorce papers in August. Things had been tough for years. Court stuff took 25 months. Getting back on my feet now...close on a house in a week. GOD blessed me with a lot of things, especially the castboolits friends.

[daniel lawecki]

Since H110 2400 are not to be found in NW Ohio at this time. I been loading with some Titegroup 250 SWC at near max load of 10grs of powder. Not a mag load like slower burning powders but groups nice out to 50yards at this time. Same SS Super Blackhawk with 10 1/2'' barrel. Try Hodgdon web site it will list a lot of loads and it's free.

[Babbott213]

Since H110 2400 are not to be found in NW Ohio at this time. I been loading with some Titegroup 250 SWC at near max load of 10grs of powder. Not a mag load like slower burning powders but groups nice out to 50yards at this time. Same SS Super Blackhawk with 10 1/2'' barrel. Try Hodgdon web site it will list a lot of loads and it's free.

Yeah, I've been checking the sight out. A lot of good information in there. If you ever want to get rid of that Hog Leg let me know. I've always liked twins.

[44man]

I have to disagree on one point in this thread. With heavy boolits (310 grain Lee) my Ruger SBH really likes 4227 for both velocity and accuracy.
If you ever shot IHMSA, you would find 4227 is the worst powder in the .44 ever. from a dead cold gun shot slow it will be accurate but look out as it warms. It will never be dropped in my .44 again. The .357 max loves it though.
Long ago I tested H110 in my SBH and never got it to shoot good, went to 296 and it came in. Found a RH did not like 296 and H110 brought it in.
YEAH, YEAH, I know, same powder but WW got a different batch then Hodgdon at the time. I still stay with 296 in all my guns. Today I don't know because I still do not buy H110.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup and the only thing ill add is 2400 and aa9 also work well. unique is not what you want to load anything over a 1000 fps.
The boolit is too light for the .44 at the start. The Ruger comes to life with 240 to over 300 GR boolits. Unique is for can shooting and 7 gr with a 240 or 250 is enough. Go to 296 for hunting.
To search for more velocity with Unique is folly. Do you like your gun or prefer scrap metal?
NO to 4227's, Heat sensitive in the .44. 2400 or 296 only.

[Babbott213]

So I finally got around to loading some 44mags with the Hodgdon H110 powder. Loaded some rounds using the Hornady XTP 240 grain JHP and I started at the minimum recommended load at 23 grains. Loaded 8 rounds into my mag for the Desert Eagle and it ran them all through with not issues at all. With those 8 rounds I'm really pleased with what I felt. I can take store bought ammo at 240 grain and they will not run through the Eagle. So next, I'll be running some through the SBH. Thanks for all the information. I think I've found my powder of choice for my 44 mags. I've still got a full pound of Unique and I'll continue to use it in my 45LC until it is all gone. I do have some Tight Group and HP-38 as well. I've used the HP-38 for my .38 SPL for the wife. Now I'm looking for a new press set-up for Christmas. Gonna get away from the Lee Classic Loaders. They've been great, but now I'm ready to move up to a better system.

[Seancass]

Glad you found h110 and loads that work for you! Now please go buy two or three reloading manuals and read them. I just read thru this thread expecting to find the post where your gun exploded. I firmly believe luck kept it from happening. Please buy some manuals and don't use a load that isn't published in them. Preferably brass, primer, bullet, and powder exactly as published, starting at the starting load and working up to satisfactory accuracy.

The part that worries me is that you never figured out that unique is the WRONG POWDER for a DE in 44mag. You just kept working up higher chasing the desired result. You never seemed to grasp that if you went to far, you lose a hand or an eye or the person next to you.

There was a lot of good advice in this thread, i hope you follow it.

[44man]

Hard to explain a 1 in 20" twist is rather slow. So boolits need some velocity for stability. 900 fps does not work and the heavier the boolit the faster it needs to be.
The DE has a 1 in 18" twist and will handle a heavy boolit. You do not shoot heavy boolits with Unique. The DE can shoot a heavy boolit slower then my SBH, not much less and sure not 900 fps.
You will not believe groups we got from the DE.
Some problems with the gas channel and cast with lubes. I will never figure out how they machined the gas channel in that thing.

[Babbott213]

Glad you found h110 and loads that work for you! Now please go buy two or three reloading manuals and read them. I just read thru this thread expecting to find the post where your gun exploded. I firmly believe luck kept it from happening. Please buy some manuals and don't use a load that isn't published in them. Preferably brass, primer, bullet, and powder exactly as published, starting at the starting load and working up to satisfactory accuracy.

The part that worries me is that you never figured out that unique is the WRONG POWDER for a DE in 44mag. You just kept working up higher chasing the desired result. You never seemed to grasp that if you went to far, you lose a hand or an eye or the person next to you.

There was a lot of good advice in this thread, i hope you follow it.

dude, you are bad wrong. I DID NOT just work up on loads, but I did go by people that I trust that have been loading for many many years and work in the gun industry day in day out. My SBH or Eagle never sustained any damage. Sure, I wasn't working from published data, but trusted data from people that has and is loading these loads day in day out. Do you always go by posted speed limits when you drive?

I was was looking for other usable loads as I felt like I wasn't getting what I was wanting from the Unique powder, so I came here. And while here I got some good advise and as well some not so good advise. Some like Chevy and others Dodge. Everyone has their own personal opinion but never makes one right.

[44man]

I post loads that are safe and the most accurate for the guns in question. Others post even hotter that I know do not work and at limits. Even gun rags go beyond what I know works. Not that some are unsafe but that I know have gone past accuracy.
I don't like you not working loads and just using what others say. You do not yet know the vast knowledge here and I feel a little bad response. Cool it!

[Markbo]

Recommending that one load from published data only ALWAYS makes you right.

If you try and argue that, you are being foolhardy and dangerous. Using others recommendations and then defending them & catstigating others for simply giving you good advice to get educated and be careful when you admit you dont know what you're talking about because you haven't read a reloading manual just of proves your are a fool.

[paralaska]

I use 10 gr of unique for my plinking loads. For the power loads . . . it's 2400 or h110/w296 . . .

[MtGun44]

+1 on 10 gr of Unique. Works well in all my .44 Mags.

Bill

[TCLouis]

First, give your "gunsmith" the benefit of doubt and NEVER get loading advice from him again.

Not filled with some of the great information found in their manuals, but tall of the powder companies have online data.

The 44 is more forgiving, but if you ever get into some of he shorter higher intensity cartridges then paying STRICT attention to COL is critical.

Unlike others I think Unique is a great powder and deserves all the accolades it receives, but it is certainly not the only medium speed pistol powder to fill that niche.

[TCLouis]

First, give your "gunsmith" the benefit of doubt and NEVER get loading advice from him again.

Not filled with some of the great information found in their manuals, but all of the powder companies have online data.
Google by name.

The 44 is more forgiving, but if you ever get into some of he shorter higher intensity cartridges then paying STRICT attention to COL is critical.

Unlike others I think Unique is a great powder and deserves all the accolades it receives, but it is certainly not the only medium speed pistol powder to fill that niche.

[44man]

Unique, like Red Dot, Green Dot and herco are SHOTGUN powders. Very fast pressure rise and easy ignition. Yes even 296 was made for the .410. Shotgun wads go on the powder, no air space. Even 2400 was not made as a pistol powder and can spike if too much is added. Only 296/H110 will not spike.
They wanted a reduced rifle powder with bulk to fill brass and made SR4759, fast but a good fill. Then there is MP 300 or such, slower then 296 but it has not been able to match 296. Need to compress too much, like Triple Seven in a BPCR. Stuff hates any compression so you can't load enough for velocity. Pyrodex can't take too much compression either.
Bullseye might have been made for the .38 but nobody in their right mind would increase the charge over book.
I am not up for what powders were made for but know to increase Unique loads is crazy and 10 gr with a 240 in the .44 is top. Make the boolit heavier and you better reduce even more. Those loads do not work. Want a heavy boolit in the .44, go to 296.

[N4AUD]

Used reloading manuals are pretty cheap insurance. Best bargain you'll ever find.

[Char-Gar]

This thread seems to roll on, so I will add a few more thoughts.

When you get to "big bore" sixguns, the 44 Magnum round is by far my favorite. It is very easy to find accurate loads all up and down the power scale. This is one round that is not finicky and just seems to want to please the loader.

I only shoot 240 grain cast bullets and divide my loading into three levels or ranges.

1. Full magnum loads - These are loaded with one of the slower powders like 2400, H110 or AA9. I shoot very few of these as I have no real use for that power level.

2. Field loads - There are for use in the field for game. This load will kill deer cleanly and anything smaller while delivering great accuracy, moderate recoil and promote long gun life. I used either 10 grains of Unique or 11 grains of AA5.

3. Utility loads - These are for recreational shooting, and game smaller than deer. Although at reasonable range, I would not hesitate to shoot a deer with it. I use 6.2 grains of Bulleye. There is nothing magic about this charge weight, I use it because I keep one powder measure set for that amount. It works well in both the 45 Colt and 44 Magnum rounds. For pure paper target punching, you can go down as low as 5 grains of Bulleye and get excellent results.

Again, the 44 Magnum rounds is amazingly versatile and one that has a place in the hand-gunners kit.

While, I have many handguns in many calibers, my favorite rounds are 22 Long rifle, 38 Special, 45 ACP and 44 Magnum. There is considerable overlap in the utility of these rounds and I could probably do without one or more, but I don't have to, so why do it.

[44man]

I am a firm believer in enough energy for hunting, placed in the right place. I have shot deer to a little over 100 yards with the .44 and there is a lot of difference in how far a deer will go. Just the loss of velocity at 100 will change things. To start a boolit at the muzzle with the velocity you get at 100 with the right load is not good practice. By the time it gets to 50 yards, it is already short of energy.
Even if a boolit goes all the way through, it is still not a good thing if you lack energy.

[jwp475]

Energy is not a good way to rate lethality, any bullet that will penetrate through the vitals will kill cleanly. Bullet placement is the most important factor and if a slower load with less muzzle blast and recoil aids in better shot placement, then that is the best load for that individual to use IMHO and experience.

[Char-Gar]

I don't hold out that I am an expert on anything, just a recorder of what I have seen, heard and done. I have shot Texas Whitetail deer with handguns from 1964 until I quit hunting about 2,000. I killed them with a Colt Gold Cup in 45 ACP (452423/4.7/Bulleye), 45 Colt (454424/8.5/Unique and the 44 Magnum (429421/10/Unique and 429421/21/2400).

The ranges were from 20 yards to 100 yards and I really didn't see any difference in performance that could not be attributed to difference in shot placement. They were all dead and ended up in the freezer.

I do need to state that I was principally a rifle hunter, but carried a handgun for use when the proper shot presented itself. With both rifle and handgun I never lost an animal and only a few required more than once shot. It is not that I am either a superior shot or a superior hunter, I just pass up shots that are not a lead pipe cinch. Yes, I have hunted many times and passed up what I could call marginal shots. I always had enough money to buy beef at the local super market.

Therefore, I hold the opinion that if a fellow shoots a deer with a 44 or 45 cast bullet with a good meplat that gives through and through penetration, in a vital place, a dead deer will be the result. I don't subscribe to the "blast em out of there tracks" theory of bullet performance. Dead is dead and no handgun will do the job better than a good rifle. I have shot several deer that did not move from their tracks, but it was with a 45-70 rifle.

I have never known any rifle to be superior to the 45-70 at killing deer at any range you can hit them. The limitation is the rainbow trajectory of the bullet and just how far the rifleman can drop that bullet from the sky into the right place on the target.

As always read my disclaimer below.

[Outpost75]

I have to agree with Char-Gar. A revolver does not need to be run at full power all the time any more than any other "machine."

I have found that any handgun caliber which starts with a "4" in which you can shoot a 180-grain or heavier flatnosed bullet having a meplat not less than 0.6 of the bullet diameter, at a revolver velocity approaching 1000 fps +/- or a rifle velocity of 1300 fps +/- will shoot clear through deer from any angle.
Neither gaschecked bullets nor trick heat treated alloys are needed. Plain old air cooled wheelweights or backstop lead will work just fine. Over the years I have witnessed many "failures" of JHP bullets which either came apart and fragmented, or zipped through without expanding, causing little damage.

I have never witnessed a bullet "failure" with a wheelweight metal, flatnosed bullet of .38-40 or larger, in full charges which approximated the velocity of the original blackpowder ammunition. Through and through penetration even when large bones are hit, and a good blood trail were always the result.

Properly loaded a .44-40 rifle is more effective than a .30-30 rifle and the .44 Magnum does every bit as well and handles heavier bullets better. In a STRONG revolver like the Ruger, the .44-40, using modern powders and bullets of proper design, seated out long to exploit the 8% greater capacity of Starline .44-40 brass than .44 Magnum, the round has great potential.

That being said, I do the majority of my field shooting with 7.2 grains of Bulleye and 230-250 grain bullets in the .44-40, .44 Magnum and .45 Colt. Typical revolver velocities are in the 900-1000 fps range. I seldom need or use a heavier load, except in my Marlin 1894S rifles, mainly to flatten trajectory to make hitting beyond 100 yards easier. My Ruger revolver with line-bored .44-40 cylinder is more accurate than the factory .44 Magnum cylinder and can handle my heavy rifle loads easily.

Indeed, had a strong .44-40 revolver been available in Keith's time the .44 Magnum may not have ever happened.

If you want ONE bullet for use in the .44 Special, .44-40, and .44 Magnum, the Accurate 43-230G is close to ideal. It is heavy enough to penetrate well, but shoots flatter than heavier bullets, is frugal of lead, does not protrude into the powder space when seated in the short neck of .44-40 brass, and also has two crimp grooves so that it may be seated out to exploit the greater cylinder length of Ruger revolvers or Marlin rifles which have been "tweaked" to handle longer rounds up to 1.7" OAL, as well as to increase powder capacity when loaded in the .44 Special.

Note also on the drawing that the rear crimp groove is larger so that it permits a heavy crimp in stiff loads and also holds more lube for applications when the rear crimp groove is actually used as a lube groove. The difference in meplat diameter compared to a typical Remington softpoint is readily apparent in the photo. Tom at Accurate molds understands what it takes to design an effective general-purpose bullet.

125197 125198125199

My usual rifle load is a compressed nominal caseful of RL7 in the .44-40 and .44 Mag. Ballistic uniformity and accuracy are superb, and while RL7 isn't ordinarily considered a revolver powder, my rifle loads shoot well in the Ruger revolver and the amount of unburned powder is minimal and does not impair function, so I have true interchangibility of rifle and revolver ammo, which, indeed, is the purpose of the exercise!

[jwp475]

I don't hold out that I am an expert on anything, just a recorder of what I have seen, heard and done. I have shot Texas Whitetail deer with handguns from 1964 until I quit hunting about 2,000. I killed them with a Colt Gold Cup in 45 ACP (452423/4.7/Bulleye), 45 Colt (454424/8.5/Unique and the 44 Magnum (429421/10/Unique and 429421/21/2400 (tel:429421/21/2400)).

The ranges were from 20 yards to 100 yards and I really didn't see any difference in performance that could not be attributed to difference in shot placement. They were all dead and ended up in the freezer.

I do need to state that I was principally a rifle hunter, but carried a handgun for use when the proper shot presented itself. With both rifle and handgun I never lost an animal and only a few required more than once shot. It is not that I am either a superior shot or a superior hunter, I just pass up shots that are not a lead pipe cinch. Yes, I have hunted many times and passed up what I could call marginal shots. I always had enough money to buy beef at the local super market.

Therefore, I hold the opinion that if a fellow shoots a deer with a 44 or 45 cast bullet with a good meplat that gives through and through penetration, in a vital place, a dead deer will be the result. I don't subscribe to the "blast em out of there tracks" theory of bullet performance. Dead is dead and no handgun will do the job better than a good rifle. I have shot several deer that did not move from their tracks, but it was with a 45-70 rifle.

I have never known any rifle to be superior to the 45-70 at killing deer at any range you can hit them. The limitation is the rainbow trajectory of the bullet and just how far the rifleman can drop that bullet from the sky into the right place on the target.

As always read my disclaimer below.


I agree totally.

[Seancass]

dude, you are bad wrong. I DID NOT just work up on loads, but I did go by people that I trust that have been loading for many many years and work in the gun industry day in day out. My SBH or Eagle never sustained any damage. Sure, I wasn't working from published data, but trusted data from people that has and is loading these loads day in day out. Do you always go by posted speed limits when you drive?

I was was looking for other usable loads as I felt like I wasn't getting what I was wanting from the Unique powder, so I came here. And while here I got some good advise and as well some not so good advise. Some like Chevy and others Dodge. Everyone has their own personal opinion but never makes one right.

Every gun is a rule unto it's self. A load that is safe in one man's gun may blow another gun to pieces. An expert reloader making conversation in a gun store may mis-remember his load data and cause others to make mistakes. Every powder has it's own place in the reloading world. Unique has been around since the dawn of time because it flat works and works well for what it was intended. It just can't be used for every purpose and one area it falls short is heavy loads. Joe-Shmoe on the internet may also not be an expert and just because two Schmoe's agree doesn't make them correct. Or safe. Also, some powders are not as friendly as others. You can increase a charge one grain and go up a little in pressure. Then you increase by another grain and go up A LOT in pressure, maybe exponentially higher.

I'm not sure what you have against reloading manuals, but you should get a couple and read them. They have a lot of fun facts in them.

I'm also not sure why I'm bothering to write this, I'm pretty sure you're now mad at me and you're going to ignore me so you can prove me wrong because I'm a jerk. I guess.

[Tar Heel]

The advise provided to educate yourself by getting and reading multiple published reloading manuals is sage advise. That data is vetted and is not provided by some person, well intentioned perhaps, but one you have never met nor have any idea about. If I told you to load 20gr of WW231 under your 240gr bullet would you do it? Use the published data as a foundation on which to build your experience. Listen to other hand-loaders with interest, but develop your own load data based on what you have studied and learned. If you want quick answers, you will get them here. They may not be the best answers for you nor may they be correct or safe.

In this "information age" with instant answers, results can be unpredictable. Not everyone is as savvy as the manufactures are.

[Char-Gar]

dude, you are bad wrong. I DID NOT just work up on loads, but I did go by people that I trust that have been loading for many many years and work in the gun industry day in day out. My SBH or Eagle never sustained any damage. Sure, I wasn't working from published data, but trusted data from people that has and is loading these loads day in day out. Do you always go by posted speed limits when you drive?

Have you ever had a person you trusted prove to be wrong? Trust is an iffy thing, when your turn loose tens of thousands of pounds of hot gas in your hand, and just inches away from you head and eyes.

But everybody gets to do it his way, but Karma can be a B(&ch.

[44man]

I lost deer with just .45 caliber holes poked through, Those I found had no blood trail on a back track. I back track every deer to the point they were hit and do a necropsy on all to see damage. The .44 with a hard boolit can ruin a lot of meat. The .475 will drop almost every deer in place with less meat damage but my .500 JRH was failing until I made half the nose softer. of the 5 I shot this year, 4 were legs up before I came out of recoil and the last made 20 yards. The big revolver will put down deer faster then a .300. I do not talk much to guys that say hit the spine, You have a revolver in your hand. Funny you post 4" groups at 25 yet hit a spine at 100. Many of my instant drops were not near the spine and I have come to expect a deer on the ground right now. You don't know how a revolver works and how deadly it is.
A hole is never enough since deer hit with a .500 went 100 to 120 yards with no blood trail.
If I want a deer down in 30 yards, the .44 works but if I want an instant drop, the .475 or JRH will do it. Energy kills or you can slowly stick a .45 size stick through a deer. Target arrow or broadhead!
I might have taken more deer then anyone here with revolvers. 5 to 7 a season. Would I ever tell you all you need is a hole?

[shoot-n-lead]

I lost deer with just .45 caliber holes poked through, Those I found had no blood trail on a back track. I back track every deer to the point they were hit and do a necropsy on all to see damage. The .44 with a hard boolit can ruin a lot of meat. The .475 will drop almost every deer in place with less meat damage but my .500 JRH was failing until I made half the nose softer. of the 5 I shot this year, 4 were legs up before I came out of recoil and the last made 20 yards. The big revolver will put down deer faster then a .300. I do not talk much to guys that say hit the spine, You have a revolver in your hand. Funny you post 4" groups at 25 yet hit a spine at 100. Many of my instant drops were not near the spine and I have come to expect a deer on the ground right now. You don't know how a revolver works and how deadly it is.
A hole is never enough since deer hit with a .500 went 100 to 120 yards with no blood trail.
If I want a deer down in 30 yards, the .44 works but if I want an instant drop, the .475 or JRH will do it. Energy kills or you can slowly stick a .45 size stick through a deer. Target arrow or broadhead!
I might have taken more deer then anyone here with revolvers. 5 to 7 a season. Would I ever tell you all you need is a hole?

Here we go again...you telling everyone what it takes in a handgun load, to kill a deer "effectively".

Give us a break...killing animals with handgun loads was being done many years before you came along.

There is no PERFECT round or load.

My rounds and loads have worked for 27yrs...and I doubt seriously if I have ever used ONE of the rounds that you use.

Sorry to have to break this to someone with all of your , many times touted, experience.

[Tar Heel]

I have shot deer with 32 caliber handguns, 357 caliber handguns, 375 caliber handguns, 40 caliber handguns, 41 caliber handguns, 44 caliber handguns, and 45 caliber handguns. Every one of then died rather quickly. The bullet is not the only variable involved nor the most important variable involved. Shot placement is the single most important factor involved in the quick dispatch of game animals. I have to agree with shoot-in-lead and throw in my 40 years of handgun hunting experience to support my premise that shot placement rules the road. Caliber is important, don't misunderstand me, but shot placement is critical. Shot placement will compensate for smaller caliber but caliber will never compensate for poor shot placement unless you are using a JDAM.

[44man]

I have used about every revolver for deer. Strange things happen. Put a boolit through both lungs, deer jumps and walks into the thick, stands there with it's head down and just walks away to never stop makes me rethink boolit construction.
That is the point I try to make. not the caliber. I changed the boolit and must have lost 15# of meat. You need to pay attention to what your boolits do and how they transmit energy.
The only reason for the loads I use is the accuracy, not how fast, lets me place boolits where I aim. Some heavy boolits in some guns can't be shot slow. Never about killing power because you can adjust the alloy. I don't like a shotgun pattern.
I have killed many deer with my Ruger old army and round balls and can say for a fact, it kills faster then a .44 mag. Hard to beat a pure lead ball. Only problem is distance is limited because accuracy is fleeting. I stay with shots of 20 yards max with it but it sure will kill deer.
The SBH shoots the 310 best with the load I listed, tried it with Unique, etc and best I could do at 50 yards was close to 2', no "placement" on deer. I watched groups tighten to an inch or less at 50 as I worked loads, then they open with too much powder and I know many use much more powder then I do. I do not recommend heavier charges, you again lose "placement."
You can argue forever about how important "placement is." I agree 100% but some of the loads used are not capable unless you restrict distance to archery ranges.
If you want slower, use a 240-250 Keith, not the 310 or 320 gr. These two heavy boolits NEED a shade over 1300 fps to be accurate. You can tailor a boolit for the velocity.125259 I showed this before, it is a heavy boolit shot too slow. Now all with shorts in a wad, would you shoot at deer with this? SBH with scope at 50 yards.
Why is it so hard to understand that you get accuracy first, then fix the boolit to work?

[44man]

Too many misunderstand me. Had a problem with the .500 JRH and a 440 gr boolit, popped a hole, two deer went 100 to 120 yards, no blood trail. Boolit too hard for 1350 fps. Softened the nose and it has turned into the darndest killing machine I own, not because it is bigger, but because I got the boolit to work without losing accuracy. Revolver has done 1/2" at 100. Why do I need 1350 fps? Because that's where the gun shoots. Just try that at 1100 fps.
"Placement" is everything and is repeated over and over but I know some of your loads can not shoot to the sights. Not you as a shooter but you use what doesn't work.
My .475 with a 420 gr NEEDS 1329 fps, the JRH NEEDS 1350 fps, the 45-70 BFR and a 317 gr boolit NEEDS 1632 fps. The .44 with a 310 or 320 NEEDS 1316 fps. My 30-30 marlin NEEDS a tad over 1900 fps. My .45 Colt NEEDS 1160 fps with a 300 to 335 gr. Now that you can hit, work the alloy to place energy where needed.

[44man]

Whitworth was here hunting with me when I made a good shot on a deer with the 45-70 BFR, double lungs. I did not see blood until I went to where I knew the deer was headed, it laid up and bounced out and ran more. We found it well over 200 yards from where hit. most likely farther. I opened it to see pink lungs with a clean hole. Just knowing where the deer was going let us find it.
Then he was here when I shot a buck on the run with the 300 gr Hornady. Deer did not go far and he still wonders how I hit the buck on the run in the thick.
Whit is a good man and understood. Then he shot a nice buck with his .475 and dropped it quick. I think he would agree that energy is important. I think he would agree about boolit changes. You never want just a hole.

[jwp475]

Too many misunderstand me. Had a problem with the .500 JRH and a 440 gr boolit, popped a hole, two deer went 100 to 120 yards, no blood trail. Boolit too hard for 1350 fps. Softened the nose and it has turned into the darndest killing machine I own, not because it is bigger, but because I got the boolit to work without losing accuracy. Revolver has done 1/2" at 100. Why do I need 1350 fps? Because that's where the gun shoots. Just try that at 1100 fps.
"Placement" is everything and is repeated over and over but I know some of your loads can not shoot to the sights. Not you as a shooter but you use what doesn't work.
My .475 with a 420 gr NEEDS 1329 fps, the JRH NEEDS 1350 fps, the 45-70 BFR and a 317 gr boolit NEEDS 1632 fps. The .44 with a 310 or 320 NEEDS 1316 fps. My 30-30 marlin NEEDS a tad over 1900 fps. My .45 Colt NEEDS 1160 fps with a 300 to 335 gr. Now that you can hit, work the alloy to place energy where needed.


Exit of a 500 JRH 440 grain flat point hard cast 20 to 22 Brunel with a muzzle velocity of 950 FPS
Meplat size and nose shape determine damage

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/HuntingPicturesfrom2006061.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/jwp475/media/HuntingPicturesfrom2006061.jpg.html)

[Char-Gar]

People have experiences which they interpret and from which they draw conclusions. However without rigorous scientific testing, the conclusions, remain theory and opinion. Problems begin when folks assert these opinions as fact and universal truth.

This is the source of about 95% of the conflict on this board and life in general.

[44man]

Exactly JWP, Larger animal where on a small deer it would be a smaller hole. You put the boolit to work. It is what your boolit does while inside before exit.
Velocity is only for the gun for accuracy. The boolit itself is the only factor after that.
my .45 vaquero does that but if I slow it I could shoot in the air and hope. But it has dropped deer over 100 yards. Just spin up for accuracy first.
Nothing comes before the ability to hit first. My complaint is to use loads I know can not hit. My Vaquero is about the same as you got for velocity and darn sure kills. My boolit is also the same hardness.
I like when you show how a revolver can do. You still need to hit at any range you shoot.
The JRH is the best of the best and my hard boolits are perfect for a larger animal but deer are smaller so just half the nose softer (3# of pure with 1# of WW) turned it into the best deer killer ever. I do not fear full hard on any larger animal. Darn thing will kill T Rex.

[44man]

People have experiences which they interpret and from which they draw conclusions. However without rigorous scientific testing, the conclusions, remain theory and opinion. Problems begin when folks assert these opinions as fact and universal truth.

This is the source of about 95% of the conflict on this board and life in general.
I don't like to say conflict, I would rather talk about boolit results. Since I hunt only deer, I have to guess on larger animals. I think mine will work. Deer are small and need a boolit to work faster yet not explode or come apart. Might be harder to get right without a loss of penetration. Why I don't like a soft HP in the .44 for deer.
Is energy dump more the you felt in your hand or would it be more if you broke your wrist and smashed your head? It is a myth, but boolit work is not.
Would you shoot a deer with a .38 S&W, .38 special or a .357? Why do hunters prefer 180 gr in the .357 over a light wad cutter? same as the .41 shooters use a heavy boolit and .44 hunters too.

[Char-Gar]

I don't like to say conflict, I would rather talk about boolit results. Since I hunt only deer, I have to guess on larger animals. I think mine will work. Deer are small and need a boolit to work faster yet not explode or come apart. Might be harder to get right without a loss of penetration. Why I don't like a soft HP in the .44 for deer.
Is energy dump more the you felt in your hand or would it be more if you broke your wrist and smashed your head? It is a myth, but boolit work is not.
Would you shoot a deer with a .38 S&W, .38 special or a .357? Why do hunters prefer 180 gr in the .357 over a light wad cutter? same as the .41 shooters use a heavy boolit and .44 hunters too.

I have indeed killed deer with the 357 Magnum round and a good SWC cast bullet, but all things being equal it would not be my first choice.

You are entitled to your own opinions drawn from your experience. However it is a rather bold assertion that you have killed more deer with a handgun that anybody else on this board. I suppose that assertion is to bolster your opinion and elevate it above the opinions of others. Why else would you make it.

I think it is time to quit gnawing on this bone and get on with life. I see no purpose in folks restating what they have already said. Opinions don't morph into ultimate truth by stating them over and over again.

I will freely state that what I have expressed about the power needed to take deer cleanly comes from my experience and therefore is nothing more than my opinion. That is always clearly stated in my disclaimer below. Folks can attach as much or as little weight to it as they wish. I don't have any need to have my opinions accepted as fact.

[44man]

Well I agree because everything I say is just my opinion based on experience. I am probably over 570 deer shot with anything you can shoot. This season I have five, last season I shot 7. Did orchard reduction in Ohio long ago with unlimited tags. Bow, shotguns, percussion and flintlocks.
For 28 years I might have 2 rifle kills and a couple with a ML. All others are with a revolver and I sold off deer rifles long ago. I have some with a bow thrown in but can't pull them anymore.
Average just 6 deer a season and it means 168 deer, some years more. Subtract a few with other then revolvers and I might reach 170 with them.
Every single deer is evaluated for what the revolver does. Is that not enough experience?
My experience and what I found is to help others that go into the field. it is not from a gun rag.
Now fess up, how many have you shot with revolvers?
I don't brag, but my experience should not be tossed that way, I am 77 and if you can't learn from me you must know so much more. Will you teach me? You are hard pressed to say you have over 170 deer with revolvers but I have friends with double my kills but they use rifles in states with more deer allowed.
How many here have taken that many deer with revolvers?

[jwp475]

I have never seen a problem with the bullet used in the above picture on any size game. 44man unless you have used every bullet made then your experience like everyone elses is limited to what you have used.

[44man]

I have never seen a problem with the bullet used in the above picture on any size game. 44man unless you have used every bullet made then your experience like everyone elses is limited to what you have used.
Good point but I have and even a keith shot right is wonderful. I just never could afford larger game so I refer to you. I have used all jacketed and cast and all loads but deer are my only test subjects. A boolit that fails on deer might be what you want on bison or elk.
I have seen what fast expanding HP's with soft lead do on deer and what quick expanding jacketed does, sad and I know you would never shoot a large animal with them.

[jwp475]

How old were you when you killed your first deer?

[Tar Heel]

How do you guys kill any deer when you spend your whole day on here racking up post counts? I went shooting today. Only added this one post today.

125425

[Lloyd Smale]

I welcome opinions from 44man and jwp. I know they've actually killed a bunch of animals. I have killed a few myself with handguns and rifles using cast bullets and have my opinion on what works too. That's sure not to say im not open to more education or are close minded to others experiences. What I kind of chuckle at is a few on here that may have shot 4 or 5 deer and claim they have the answers. You can shoot 4 deer with the same load the same day and get 4 completely different reactions. Its when you've shot 20 or 30 deer with that combo that you can come up with rock solid opinions on how it actually works. So it doesn't leave much room for the average guy that can only shoot one or two deer a year to ever know. Its guys that like that should keep quiet and listen to guys like 44man and jwp that have been there and done that.

[jwp475]

Lloyd thanks for the kind words, like others I know what has worked well for me and what has not, but certainly have not tried every bullet. New bullets come along constantly, I am not into expereimenting at my age I tend to stick to what I know.

[44man]

How old were you when you killed your first deer?
Don't remember John but shot too many doing orchard deer reduction. Massive deer damage and free doe tags. Also farms with too many deer. Free tags, as many as needed. Fed the poor and did not have to pay to process. I quit when it started to cost me to get deer butchered but I did cut many myself to avoid the cost. I can not give meat away here without paying so I give to friends where I hunt and they come to help butcher and buy paper and tape to wrap.
My friend still averages over 17 a season and does most of the cutting.
You don't know how I have it. come up the lane and see a table with a bottle of booze on it for us and then get a free truck load of firewood.
Farms in Ohio would let us stay in the house to sleep in front of a fireplace. I had farms and orchards from lake Erie to the river to hunt. In PA, come have coffee and home made dough nuts before hunting. Slept in homes in PA too.
Just how many of you have been invited to stay in a farmers home? We even had a whole house once since the old people went to Fla in the winter.
All of us are true hunters with respect. I drove in and went hunting without asking first. Everyone knew me. I do the same here where I live.
Need to look at yourself and I have memories and those that will never forget me and my friends. I am proud to have known such great people.
This is a good site and it does no good to pick one one another.

[Seancass]

I hate to put this thread back on the topic of handloading 44mag, instead of hunting, but I just had a quick note. The OP mentions 14 gr of Unique with 15 gr recommended by the expert. Lyman says 12gr makes for 40,000ps. I could crunch some numbers, but if Unique performed in a linear fashion you'd be up around 60,000psi with 14gr. But unique isn't linear, so this load could have been north of 80,000psi. That's right up there in Proof load territory. You know, the kind of load that blows up any gun with the slightest flaw. But hey, what do I know. The OP has loaded Hundreds of rounds and hasn't even damaged a gun yet!

Anyway, you guys were talking about hunting, carry on.

[Doc1]

I run a lot of Red Dot through my SBH for mild cast plinking rounds. Like Unique, it is not a powder to use seeking high velocity. If you want more velocity, use appropiate propellents. Powders - exactly like firearms - are only tools. Some are best for certain applications and others are downright dangerous when used for the wrong purpose. Unique is dangerous in .44 Mag high velocity loadings; it is simply the wrong tool. Look, I don't dislike Unique and I keep a little around the bench because it is so versatile. You can do a lot with it from loading cast boolit rifle cartridges to a lot of handgun loads, but I can't think of a single application where it's my favorite powder. My go-to high velocity .44 Mag powder is 2400.

Reloading components are cheap compared to factory ammo and are very cheap compared to medical emergencies! Use the right tools.

Best regards
Doc