405 or Krag?

[ColColt]

I was considering a 40-70SS rifle from C. Sharps and was told they can cut the chamber and head space for either the 405 Winchester brass or BACO 30-40 Krag. Is there any advantage of one over the other? I've looked at my usual 5-6 sources for 405 brass and it's not to be had and some indicated no back orders. I do have 100 new cases of BACO(30-40 Krag) brass for the C.Sharps rifle but if the 405 is better I can always sell the other. There seems to be a problem finding either.

[Loudenboomer]

I have both. They are a horse of a different color but both are great calibers. I like the Krag with the 311284 and a case full of WC 860. I think in the long run you will be happier with the .405 in the Sharps. What are the intend uses?

[ColColt]

Primarily target shooting. I've read the Hornady 405 brass is better for this caliber-I don't know why that is.

[Loudenboomer]

Hornady brass is all I've used in the .405. It is of excellent quality. Accurate made me up a custom mold that shoots well in my High wall. 41-330 C. I get good results with this boolit over 5744. AA2230 has also worked well.

[fouronesix]

If C Sharps is willing to ream the 40-70SS chamber for Hornady 405 Win brass, that should work well. Probably need to talk to C Sharps about the details of the chamber specs in relation to throat, groove diameter, bullet diameter and neck wall thickness. The Hornady 405 Win brass I have averages .010-.011 neck wall thickness.

I don't know where you are looking for Hornady 405 Win brass. Graf shows it in stock. https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/7088

[Don McDowell]

Keep in mind also that Jamison makes a run of 405 brass on occasion and has ran some 40-70ss in the past. They don't list the 40-70 currently, but do say they have plans of bringing it back.
http://www.captechintl.com/default.php

[ColColt]

I could have sworn I checked Graf's yesterday and it was back ordered. That was one of the places I looked along with Midway, MidSouth and Widners. I did also check Jamison and they were out of stock in all quantities. I noticed they sure had a lot of 44-77 brass, however.

[Chill Wills]

Primarily target shooting. I've read the Hornady 405 brass is better for this caliber-I don't know why that is.

Either / both should work well if the rifle is set up for it. The Hornady 405 will have a lot less capacity as a 40-70 SS than a Krag as a 40-70SS. The Hornady brass is thicker/heaver and as said, well made.

The Krag brass is fine too given you can chamber a rifle to it and then make sure all your brass meets the spec. The problem in the past is that some reamers and rifle builders have produced chambers that weren't really one or the other and did not fit either especial well.

I have rifles chambered for both Krag and Hornady and both are fine.

Sometimes a single example of a barrel or rifle will be head and shoulder a better shooter. Nothing different about it. Just luck of the draw. One such rifle built to shoot the Krag case but a little shorter than the 2.5" 40-70 Sharps Straight is the 40-60 Maynard (2.200" case) and has won many championship matches and set national records for accuracy so Don't think you will handicap yourself using the Krag case. In the long run the Krag case may be the more available and less expensive to go with.

Much overlooked, the 40-60 Maynard can be made with out stretching cases so it has the advantage of just buying brass, fire forming them and then trimming. Most of the US singleshot rifle makers like Shiloh, C Sharps, CPA Stevens and custom gunsmiths can provide you with it.

[ColColt]

I've noticed as for case capacity, W-W have a lot more capacity in at least a 45-70 case, than Starline. In fact, something like 5-7 gr more. The Hornady 405 brass seems to be the going choice for brass in 40-70 from all I've read.

The first time I had heard of the Maynard was in a Primer by Steve Garbe. If I recall, he had won at least one championship with it. From a looks standpoint it appears to hold a bit more powder than the 40-65. I don't think C. Sharps chambers for it, however, at least not in the Bridgeport model.

[Gunlaker]

Mr. Rix, I've read the match results for you and that .40-60 :-). Obviously it works extremely well for you. What is the powder capacity like compared to a .40-65? Not that I'm looking for a new .40 as I'm extremely happy with my latest Shiloh in .40-65, I'm just curious.

Thanks,

Chris.

[ColColt]

While not Mr. Rix, the 40-65 case is about the same length as the 45-70-2.1 whereas the Maynard is 2.2 so, maybe a bit more powder capacity than the 40-65.

[Chill Wills]

Mr. Rix, I've read the match results for you and that .40-60 :-). Obviously it works extremely well for you. What is the powder capacity like compared to a .40-65? Not that I'm looking for a new .40 as I'm extremely happy with my latest Shiloh in .40-65, I'm just curious. Thanks,
Chris.

Hey Chris, Thanks! BTW- "Mr" was my father:smile: I would feel a little pretentious going along with being called that by my peers.
Anyway, the 40-65 Winchester will have the greater powder capacity given the same bullet - same throat.

The 45-70 case volume comes from its fat diameter. And, as you know the 40-60 Maynard is a straight case blown out from the 30-40. Without anything next to the loaded 40-60 Maynard in a picture to help show scale, you would think you are looking at a 45-90. It has the same proportions. Very easy to load for and very easy to create from basic Krag brass.

Michael Rix

[Chill Wills]

We went out and cut a Christmas tree and are back home. I reread the post and I see I really did not answer your question.

I can not give an exact example of the volume difference in charge weight but the smaller 40-60 Maynard will show a great efficiency with the powder used. It will drive a 406gr. bullet to 1265 fps. That is not bad for the pencil sized case. OK - its not that small! It's 40 cal front to back.

I shoot 2F Swiss and bullets from DanT's very first experimental Mini Groove Paul Jones mould. That bullet is known to BPCR shooters as the Money Bullet these days. Dan sold it to Jerry Vanwey and then Jerry sold it to me a year later. He could not make it work in his 40-70 SS. In fact nothing ever found worked to his liking in his 40-70's. But in my in my 40-60 its tapered design was great from the start and the additional few grains powder capacity did not hurt either.

I would not recommend it to a beginner only because it has a little case forming to get started but for ease of finding good accurate load it is on par or better than a 45-70 Gov and has half the recoil.

[Gunlaker]

Thanks. The .30-40 Krag case is pretty useful. I've got a .38-50 based on it. Too bad it's not a little easier to find North of the border.

I only own one .40 and sure like it a lot. ( well, sort of. I also have a .40-85 Ballard Pacific, but it's not really a target gun ). To me, the biggest advantage is that with the lighter recoil I'm less likely to make a mistake and put a shot out of the group. I've still got consistency issues, but when I shoot the .40-65 I'm a lot more likely to get ten shots off without a mistake than I am with the .45's.

I know what you mean about some rifles just working out to be better than others. I'm lucky to be able to have quite a few single shots, and every now and then you get one where all of the tolerances stack in your favor :-).

In my .40-65 I've been using the Saeco #740 bullet, but have played with Buffalo Arm's interpretation of the mini groove Money bullet. I haven't got it to work as well during testing yet, but I will do some experimenting at the ram line this spring. It seems to fit the chamber so well it really ought to shoot. Sometimes my rifles and I disagree on what ought to work best :-)

Chris.

[Dan4570]

Check Track of the Wolf, they did have Starline 40-70, and 40-90 in stock.

[Chill Wills]

When did Starline start building 40-70 (as in Sharps Straight) brass?
If they do make it now, it will be sturdy.

[Don McDowell]

Wasn't aware they made 40-90 either..