One of my favorite 358 Win. Loads

[Ben]

For the past 5 years, this load has shot like this in my two different 358 Win. rifles.

I've killed several deer with it.

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/002_zps0621d56f.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/002_zps0621d56f.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/005-4-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/haysb/media/005-4-1.jpg.html)

[Yodogsandman]

Nice shooting Ben!

Can you tell us more about your powder choice? I've never tried it. Is it the surplus powder that's available? The surplus powder is described as being similar to the energy of IMR4831 but, bulkier. Is this how it works for you? I like to use IMR4831 in 30-06 and 6.5x55 with J-words. I've been eyeing the surplus IMR7383 for both the J-words and boolits. Do you have good luck with it in any other calibers?

[Ben]

No one should even touch IMR 7383 until they have done hours of reading and studying.

It is a VERY temperamental powder that can go from OK to wild very quickly. Most say it is at its best with heavy weight bullets.

It isn't good to compress the granules of 7383 powder. It is made in several lots that display different burn rates.

Some say to use IMR 4064 load data , Some say IMR 4350, others suggest IMR 4831. Recommendations are all over the map.

My lot from Hi-Tech from years ago , came with a recommendation to use IMR - 4064 load data ?

I'm not even certain that I trust that..........

With that said, I have 16 pounds of it, it works for me, but I treat it like a Cobra....with a lot of respect and currently only load it in a couple of applications.

A lot of people say continue increasing the charge until you get a near complete burn (while watching primers closely ) and then back off 1 grain. That is basically how I arrived at my load, I have used 40 grs. in my 358 Win. with a 262 gr. cast g/c bullet , but I've settled on 38.5 grs. with very good accuracy and a near complete burn.

Many say that once a complete burn is reached , additional increases in charge weight can become dangerous VERY QUICKLY.

Ben

[Yodogsandman]

Thanks for the warning! Be assured that I have been studying it. I've looked at this powder for over a year, maybe two. I'm still asking questions about it. I do need more information. Circling and circling. I consider the purchase as a life or death decision. I'll probably still be thinking about it until a jug of IMR4831 mysteriously shows up on my shelf and I forget about it....again. I'd already decided against it about a year ago. I still have some cans of IMR4831 left so, no hurry.

[Nobade]

I too have had good results with 7383 in the 358 win. Shooting the NOE #358008 (or is it 009 - I forget. The big 295gr. borerider) a case full (droptubed) of 7383 gives right at 1950 fps. Groups run right around MOA, and that big boolit will fly accurately for a long ways.

-Nobade

[Ben]

Nobade

Yes, I have the 358009.

It is a killer, as you say - - - for a long ways ! !

Ben



The solid from my mold with lube and g/c weighed 292 grs.

The solid shot exceptionally well, I can only assume that the HP version will shoot even better.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/358009%20HP/PICT0001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/358009%20HP/PICT0005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/358009%20HP/PICT0006.jpg

Here is a group that I shot with the 358009 solid prior to HP'ing :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/55-1.jpg

[Uncle Grinch]

Ben,

I enjoy your photos almost as much as your info! Keep it up.

Mike

[Ben]

Mike,

You're kind.

You make an old man feel good.

[35 shooter]

That 358009 is my favorite 35 cal boolit so far. Totally agree it's a hard hitter and very accurate.I don't have a hollow point version though:cry:. I do have a gc and pb in the same mold though[smilie=s:! So now it seems i've gotta get another 358009 mold and hollow point it?
Man! I give up...i can't keep up with you guys.
Seriously though i have thought about hollow pointing the pb side of the mold, as i only shoot it around 1300 to 1400 fps....Hhhmmmm!

I gotta quit looking at all these pics!!!

[Ben]

It is only $$$$$$$$$$$$$ .

[Nobade]

Hollow pointing that boolit looks interesting. Move the CG back a bit and you're right, it may shoot even better. Now that NOE makes those moulds you don't have to scrounge for a used Ideal one and pay collector prices, so it's not a bad way to go. Hmmm.....

-Nobade

[smoked turkey]

Ben this post makes me wish for a couple of things: A 358 Winchester rifle, and a 358009 HP. Unfortunately my 3589 is a single cavity so I cannot HP one cavity as you have done. As a side note I used my Ruger M77 MKII in 35 Whelen and the 3589 boolit to shoot a nice doe and a six point buck this deer season. Just finished up the butchering process and have had both summer and breakfast sausage as well as some good steaks as a result of our labor. I will say that in my case it is not possible to eat "up to the hole" when one uses a 3589 solid point and it hits the edge of the shoulder on its way out of the deer! Devastating to say the least.

[Ben]

Anyway you slice it or dice it, the 358009 is a killer in a good .35 cal. rifle.

Ben

[Artful]

That 358009 is my favorite 35 cal boolit so far. Totally agree it's a hard hitter and very accurate.I don't have a hollow point version though:cry:. I do have a gc and pb in the same mold though[smilie=s:! So now it seems i've gotta get another 358009 mold and hollow point it?
Man! I give up...i can't keep up with you guys.
Seriously though i have thought about hollow pointing the pb side of the mold, as i only shoot it around 1300 to 1400 fps....Hhhmmmm!

I gotta quit looking at all these pics!!!

Have you thought about may using Forster Universal Hollow Pointer or similar
arrangement to just drill the hollowpoint into any boolit you want?

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/371/371968.jpg

or you can use your case trimmer - no matter what the brand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InSJuNvai54

or drill press if you make a guiding jig that you can put the cartridge into that will center the drill bit as you remove metal from the point.
http://www.eabco.com/images/holoptr.gif

[35 shooter]

I actually did think about that while i was posting,but have never used one before. Looks like a neat tool to have around. I think that's actually the first picture i've seen of one.
Thanks for posting that!

[cainttype]

With enough interest, you could easily get a group buy going on NOE's forum for Al's RG hollow-point versions with plain base, gas checked, or a combo.
They already have the tooling. Al's even began offering cup-nose punches... could be fun.

[waksupi]

For the past 5 years, this load has shot like this in my two different 358 Win. rifles.

I've killed several deer with it.

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/002_zps0621d56f.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/002_zps0621d56f.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/005-4-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/haysb/media/005-4-1.jpg.html)

I shot a buck yesterday with a very similar flat point design. Weirdest cast bullet performance I ever saw. No exit wound on the off side, two large holes on the entrance side. I found four other small entry wounds around the main wounds. The shot broke the major leg bone in a manner I had not witnessed before. Obvious secondary projectiles from the bone, and I found a bullet fragment in the pelvis! The only thing I can think of, I must have hit a small tree or something between us just before the bullet hit, causing fragmentation. Bad light, and snowing. He went maybe 30 yards, then folded and slid another 40-50 yards down the mountainside. I was tempted to go back today and see if I could find what I had hit between myself and the deer, but the snow and steep mountain side convinced me to leave it a mystery.

[dougader]

Hi Ben, Can you tell me what twist and how many grooves you went with when Jesse rebored your 308 Vanguard to 358?

Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving!

[Ben]

Hi Ben, Can you tell me what twist and how many grooves you went with when Jesse rebored your 308 Vanguard to 358?

Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving!

.358 , 3 groove , 1 - 13

[Ben]

I shot a buck yesterday with a very similar flat point design. Weirdest cast bullet performance I ever saw. No exit wound on the off side, two large holes on the entrance side. I found four other small entry wounds around the main wounds. The shot broke the major leg bone in a manner I had not witnessed before. Obvious secondary projectiles from the bone, and I found a bullet fragment in the pelvis! The only thing I can think of, I must have hit a small tree or something between us just before the bullet hit, causing fragmentation. Bad light, and snowing. He went maybe 30 yards, then folded and slid another 40-50 yards down the mountainside. I was tempted to go back today and see if I could find what I had hit between myself and the deer, but the snow and steep mountain side convinced me to leave it a mystery.

waksupi

Many a twig / limb has ruined a good hunt !
It has happened to me, now you, soon some of these other fellows.

Seems to all be part of it.............
On another day you'll place that bullet perfect.

Best to you,

Ben

[Ben]

I actually did think about that while i was posting,but have never used one before. Looks like a neat tool to have around. I think that's actually the first picture i've seen of one.
Thanks for posting that!

I have several hundred .35 cal. cast rifle HP's.
I'd have hated to have tried to do all that with a drill bit. Much easier to cast em' as drill em'.

Ben

[waksupi]

waksupi

Many a twig / limb has ruined a good hunt !
It has happened to me, now you, soon some of these other fellows.

Seems to all be part of it.............
On another day you'll place that bullet perfect.

Best to you,

Ben

Well, It didn't ruin the hunt, as the deer didn't go far. Just a bit more damage than I care for through pulverized mangled meat. I probably lost a couple pounds, but blood shot meat was not a consideration. I guess it says a lot for the bullet design that it can still kill well even with damage in flight, assuming the obstruction is fairly close to the quarry.

[PAT303]

For the past 5 years, this load has shot like this in my two different 358 Win. rifles.

I've killed several deer with it.

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/002_zps0621d56f.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/002_zps0621d56f.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/005-4-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/haysb/media/005-4-1.jpg.html)What happened Ben,those three shots aren't through the same hole,ya slippin' mate,ya slippin'.How do you get a smiley face on these posts?. Pat

[GLynn41]

hi Ben --I have vanguard in .358 win too killed a 7pt swamp deer Thanksgiving day- currently loaded with 50.5 of varget and 200 gr Hornady gummie bear bullet- I have not gone to only cast becasue I still field hunt with it, want to keep the 250 or so yards I have now --looked at your sight you do good work -- may call you some day

[Ben]

hi Ben --I have vanguard in .358 win too killed a 7pt swamp deer Thanksgiving day- currently loaded with 50.5 of varget and 200 gr Hornady gummie bear bullet- I have not gone to only cast becasue I still field hunt with it, want to keep the 250 or so yards I have now --looked at your sight you do good work -- may call you some day

Thanks.
Would love to hear from you,

Ben

[GLynn41]

Ben throw up a pic of your Vanguard like to see it and I do them same -- mine ate the factory stock so I got Fajen? it was thirty years ago-- semi inlet finished it bedded it and now years later still good -- shots theSeirra the best -- but does well with 200 gr -- refinished the stock with five coats of true oil hand rubbed buffed before the last coat- it looks pretty good but hunting in the swamp is hard on the stock

[dougader]

.358 , 3 groove , 1 - 13

Thanks, Ben. That Vanguard (and you) sure can shoot!

[Ben]

Ben throw up a pic of your Vanguard like to see it and I do them same -- mine ate the factory stock so I got Fajen? it was thirty years ago-- semi inlet finished it bedded it and now years later still good -- shots theSeirra the best -- but does well with 200 gr -- refinished the stock with five coats of true oil hand rubbed buffed before the last coat- it looks pretty good but hunting in the swamp is hard on the stock

For me personally, I do believe of all of my 40 or so center fire rifles, this one ( for white tail deer ) is clearly my all time favorite.

Set up with a Millet 3 X 9 X 40 illuminated reticle scope. The reticle inside the scope is etched in the glass, that is a super reliable way of doing it in my opinion.

I've tried 3 different stocks on this rifle. This synthetic , that is on it now , is best suited for my purposes. The stock is rugged, takes a lot of abuse in the woods and shows little signs of any use at all.

The barreled action is glass bedded and the barrel free floats. JES rebored my 308 factory barrel. Mine is now .358 ", 1-13 twist, 3 groove. It is a super accurate barrel. JES does excellent work. The interior of this barrel looks like a mirror.

This rifle is a " KILLER " ! ! !

Ben

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/009_zps239ebf62.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/009_zps239ebf62.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/002_zps91d473bf.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/002_zps91d473bf.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/008_zps79f92d0e.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/008_zps79f92d0e.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/006_zps167b46a6.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/006_zps167b46a6.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/001_zps169e5097.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/001_zps169e5097.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/007_zps6fdcc8be.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/007_zps6fdcc8be.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/005_zps857cfc35.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/005_zps857cfc35.jpg.html)

[GLynn41]

thanks for the heads up I will do the same -my stock was a Fajen semi inletted -- shape is much like yours-- took a 141# dressed weight 7pt thanksgiving morning

[Mk42gunner]

waksupi

Many a twig / limb has ruined a good hunt !
It has happened to me, now you, soon some of these other fellows.

Seems to all be part of it.............
On another day you'll place that bullet perfect.

Best to you,

Ben
It really doesn't take much of a twig either. One time I shot at a pretty decent buck with a 6.5-06 and hit a sumac sprout right where it forked into three limbs. I have no idea where the bullet went, but it wasn't into the deer.

I went back the next day and walked my line of fire until I found the twig I hit. It was maybe 3/8" diameter.

Robert

[lastborn]

Tag for later reference.

[atr]

Ben,
good hand-loading and great shooting !
(but plastic stocks ...ugh!)
atr

[RustyMusket]

Range Report: I just made it to the range yesterday with my newly re-bored 358 Win. by Jesse at JES. It was an old SAKO L579 Forester (.243) sporter that saw hard, hard use by a prior owner and it was time to give to a second life. I spoke at some length with Jesse and I decided on a 1/12 twist 5 groove. After cleaning, I shot 40 (seasoning) shots in groups of 5 with full bore scrub and copper removal after every 5. These were 158 gr. pistol bullets over 11 gr. Trail Boss. and then 5 more with 180 gr. Speer.

My mild 'test load' was LC 74 Match brass, Fed primer, 43.5 gr. H4895 and Hornady 200 gr. Spire pt. I only had time for 100 yard testing but I shot two, 3 shot groups at .70". I shot another 5 shot group (not letting barrel cool) where 4 were at .65" but the fifth edged out to just over an inch. I think that one was my fault. My point here is my extreme satisfaction with the work that Jesse did for me. The service was fast, it looks great and performance of the rifle is far better than I expected. I'll start to play with cast when I get time and report. I should mention that Jesse explained that a 3 groove would be just fine but for personal reasons, I chose the 5 groove..and am happy.

[NLS1]

Love the threads for 358 win. Can't wait to build one.

Thanks for all the great info guys.


Dan