Solenoid flow control, bottom pour pot?

[Spector]

Is it an outlandish idea to create a solenoid flow controlled bottom pour pot? Should be easy enough to adapt to a large Lee bottom flow pot. I have had this idea for more than a few years now.

My question is, in your opinion, could this be of benefit, or is it just complicating an already simple and sound system. I suspect responses will be be varied. I am especially interested in any safety concerns.

I have a picture in my head of how I believe I would do it, but please add any ideas you might have as well. I am assuming that I would not want to overheat the solenoid so some separation and shielding for the solenoid would be necessary. I think a flow control rod could be constructed that would not transmit too much heat to an overhead mounted solenoid.

A silly idea, or may it have some merit.....again keeping casting safety in mind? Someone may already be doing it for all I know.

Mike

[dragon813gt]

Pointless on anything but an automated casting machine. There is no benefit and you'd just be complicating things. Since it's not automated all the other variables aren't controlled.

[dikman]

I agree. While it would be an interesting challenge, I reckon it would be rather pointless (and I certainly wouldn't want one). I much prefer the control I have by doing it manually.

[HATCH]

It wouldn't be that hard to do.
Same principle we use to automate the master caster.

But I don't know why you would.
On the master caster and most casting machines they use dual cavity molds and they use a spout that is also dual pour.
On most bottom pour pots they use a single stream.

[bangerjim]

I design and sell solenoid and automated industrial control valve systems and ones that will withstand casting temps would cost many many times the cost of the Lee pot!

You would have to heat trace the thing to keep lead from hardening inside it.

You would have to isolate the coil far enought from the ~700F temp so it would not fry.
Not realistic to attempt. Unless you have lots of time and money on your hands!

Being an engineer, machininst, and designer, I could see how it could be done, but no way worth the time or money invested.

Just use the casting pot handle and get some eye hand coordination practice going.



banger

[Spector]

Thanks for the reality check.

I have psoriatic arthritis that hit my wrists hard about two years ago. I never suspected before that, but now realize the signs were there as far back as 1973. It is fairly well controlled for now with Methotrexate. It apparently compromises my immune system as a means of control, but I caught every winter-time ailment that came down the pike last year including the flu even though I had a flu shot months earlier. Rarely used to catch anything.

I guess if my wrists get bad enough that I need a lazy man's flow control then I couldn't stand the recoil from my Springfield XDs anyway.

Mike

[jmorris]

I used a generic solenoid to control my homade pot, nothing special or expensive. Looks like a solenoid one would find in a washing machine.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/caster5.jpg

After a few hours of operation, I could see the tape around the coil was getting a little hot. So I sawed a notch in a section of aluminum to act as a heat sheld, can be seen in this video. Been pouring lead for more than a decade now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2U1ujg_nzo

[jmorris]

I just realized that might not help. Are you trying to actuate the existing valve or run the molten lead through a solenoid/valve itself?

[HATCH]

I thought he was trying to modify a existing setup.

[castalott]

I use an air cylinder on my homemade auto-caster. A relay activates an air solenoid which activates a cylinder which moves the lever to open the pot. The valve in the pot itself is spring loaded to shut. The cylinder attachment has double acting springs so that you can override the air cylinder either way with just your hand. It's very , very easy to do and works quite well. ( remember to add flow controls to adjust the rate the cylinder moves and a regulator to adjust the power the cylinder has.)

Dale

[dikman]

I thought he was trying to modify a existing setup.

Yeah, it sounded to me like he wanted to add a solenoid control to the nozzle of a Lee Pro4.

[bangerjim]

After thing about your situation today, I was going to post the exact idea of a remote coil attached to the existing lever. Looks like someone else had the same idea.

Having joint problems and pains is a real "pain" and I feel for you brother!

Hope you can mod your pot with the external coil as shown above.

best of luck!

banger

[bnelson06]

I can see the reason to do this if the hands aren't working the way they should but I wouldn't complicate the manual pour for any other reason. KISS. Adding anything that complicates the action also increases the probability of a failure.

[dikman]

Oops. For some reason I took it to mean modifying the nozzle itself with a flow valve of some sort - definitely a complicated way to do things. However, adding a remote solenoid to operate the needle valve wouldn't actually be that difficult, BUT I reckon you would have to throw away the existing handle (which isn't really that good anyway) and make some sort of framework across the top to support the new lever assembly and solenoid, which would be mounted out the side somewhere. A bell crank attached to the top of the needle would allow the solenoid to be mounted horizontally to the side and change the horizontal movement of the solenoid to a vertical lift.

Or an external framework extending up over the pot would allow the solenoid to be mounted above it with a direct pull onto the needle. As the travel of the solenoid would be much greater than the small movement needed to open the valve, that could create a problem, so again a bell crank in line with the needle would allow some method of adjusting the travel, or I suppose a simple lever with adjustment holes would work.

Ideally, removing the pot assembly from its existing base and mounting it in a custom frame would be best, I reckon, as then a proper mold support shelf could be added too.

Thinking out loud here.......

[Spector]

Well........apparently some of you now have the idea rattling around in your heads as well and some had it previously. I had envisioned a high inline mounting, though the lever linkage probably makes more sense........Mike

[jmorris]

In the first photo I posted in #8 you can see a 1/4-20 bolt under the lever, that is the flow adjustment.

It really is that simple a few inches of 1/8" flat strap with 3 holes in it. One end bolts to the needle, the other end to the solenoid and a pivot point.

[dikman]

Yours is a substantial construction, Mr. Morris, the problem with the Lee pot will be making things solid enough to give some rigidity to everything. And yes, your stop bolt is a simple solution indeed.

[Tazza]

I can't see why you can't do it that way.

Wymannwin made his casting machine pneumatic for the same reasons you wish to change your setup.

How would you go with an air cylinder to start and stop lead pour controlled by a food switch? is that an option? it doesn't help the fact you will still need your wrist(s) to hold the mold closed, cut the sprue and dump cast projectiles.

[hornetguy]

to Jmorris..... your casting machine ROCKS. That is automation that just WORKS. I suppose you could put all kind of time delay relays in it to slow down/speed up the cycle time as each mold requires. Very slick looking tool. Kudos from me....

[SSGOldfart]

Pointless on anything but an automated casting machine. There is no benefit and you'd just be complicating things. Since it's not automated all the other variables aren't controlled.
I have to disagree I think it's a very grand ideal,I'm one handed(Hemiplegic ) this could be a good improvement that would open up doors for a lot of people.

[HATCH]

For single cavity molds its not pointless on a bottom pour pot. If you had a master pot then dual cavity would be good too.

Its nice to not have to look at the lead pouring into the mold. Just hit the switch and x amount of leas is dropped every time.

[jmorris]

FWIW all I did on my pot was machine an 1/8" wide slot and drilled two holes at either end of the slot. It's bolted to the bottom of the pot so the single hole just diverts to two holes.

[HATCH]

That's how the magma is done.