Which caliber/cartridge for dedicated CB shooter?

[osteodoc08]

Which cartridge/caliber lends itself well to cast boolit shooting? Thinking of picking up a new rifle to tinker with this winter in preparation for spring time shooting. I prefer a short action and common caliber. The more frugal on powder and lead a bonus.

I love lobbing 405gr hunks o lead downrange, but the lead goes quickly when shooting my 45/70. It's not unusual to shoot 50-100 in a session. That's 40500gr of lead, approx 5.5#+ of lead! If I can trim the boolit weight to 60-125gr, the lead savings would be substantial.

Strictly paper punching.

[ktw]

Moderate cartridge capacity for caliber.
Cartridges with longer rather than shorter necks.

I like the 30-30. 30-06 also works for me. Lyman 311008, or similar, makes a great pinker.

35 caliber is also popular in this application.

-ktw

[sghart3578]

Find a good bolt action 30.06. Gunbroker has several for sale all the time. I like the sporterized military rifles but stock is great also. I load 220 gr bullets all the way down to 90 gr plinkers.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/a835a54b6dd2746a5c68f19c27243269-1003.html

This is a link to an article by the great Ed Harris about why the 30.06 is the ultimate American cartridge.

I know what you mean about big chunks of lead. When I cast 405 gr bullets for my 45-70 Handi-rifle it doesn't take long to empty the lead pot.

If 30.06 is not your style try a 30.30 in either lever action or bolt action. Or try a .357 mag in lever or bolt.

I like cast bullets in everything I shoot. Here is a partial list of what I have and what I cast for:

Winchester M70, 30.06 pre '64
H&R Handi, single shot 45-70
Marlin 336 Texan 30-30
Marlin 1894CS 357
BRNO VZ24 bolt action 7X57
Savage 340 bolt action 30-30

All of these rifles will shoot cast extremely well if you take the time to find the right bullet and load. But for me that's where the fun is.

Best of luck.

[Motor]

If you are looking for inexpencive look at Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R. The brass is not as easy to get as others as in free pick up or as cheap but is available.

But, A 30-30 would probably be a better choice for a "normal" person. lol I've had zero problems getting a 30-30 to shoot cast boolits very well and 125gr to 150gr boolits work good. Personally I use a 160gr Lee in all of the above.

[osteodoc08]

I've got a few thurdy thurdys, 357, 45LC, 32special, 45/70 levers. I have a few bolt guns with calibers ranging from 22-250, 223, 243, 25-06, 30-06 and a ruger #1 is 338 win Mag.

In my mind I was thinking something off the 308 cartridge case. Possibly 7mm-08, 243, etc.

[jmort]

If you have the Lyman Cast Bullet manual check out the data for calibers under consideration. That might give you some information to help finalize your decision.

[osteodoc08]

I do have one and will check it. Perhaps a bolt gun in 308. I have a 308 AR and tons of brass.

[texassako]

I think that 32 Special you listed would make a great dedicated cast shooter. You can shoot lead at full power, and the slower twist(1:14? I think) than most .30 and less calibers is just asking for lead. Pick up one of NOE's 130 gr 321008 molds and you are in business.

[gnoahhh]

I would be quite happy with just a .30-30 built on a single shot action for all of my cast bullet experimenting for the rest of my life. Failing that, then a .32-40, but mould selections are 50 times better for the .30 caliber. As much as I love the .30-06, I feel the .30-30 is better for strictly cast bullet experimentation. Go with the '06 if full power jacketed shooting/hunting is in the cards too.

That said, the last two years have found me deriving great pleasure from the challenge of experimenting with cast bullets in .22 Hornets. If you want the biggest (most?) bangs for your buck- and a wonderful challenge to boot- consider that cartridge choice.

[Scharfschuetze]

I've never had a 30/06 that didn't shoot cast boolits well. That includes squib loads with 32/20 boolits to long range loads with boolits in the 210 grain category and velocities from 1,200 to 2,000 fps. I really like shooting the old Springfield and M1 Garand rifles so that is the perfect marriage of rifles and calibre for me.

A second round I really like for cast boolit shooting is the 30/40 Krag. In a good Krag-Jorgenson, the accuracy and flexibility is outstanding. I've never tried it in any other rifle type, but there are a couple of options out there that chamber it.

The 30/30 and the 32 Winchester Special in my stable are also often used and make reliable platforms for cast boolits; although for longer ranges beyond 200 yards, my first two options are favored. If I had a bolt action or single shot in either of these two calibres, I'd have to reconsider my personal preference.

[osteodoc08]

Gnoahhh,

I have eyed the 22 hornet for years, ever since I passed on a very nice Ruger 77 target in 22 Hornet. Wish I had the 4 bills they were asking for it then. Hardly shot as the guy bought it by mistake and couldn't find ammo for it.

[Motor]

I think the .308 Win would work just as well as a 30-30. The reason I suggested 30-30 was because of its age, the caliber that is, it very likely started out a all lead loading.

I have loaded "cast like" loads in .308 Win. using light for caliber j word bullets and it performed real well with them. I'm sure the 160 cast that I use in 30-30 and the Mosin Nagants would do very nicely in .308 Win as well.

If you can find a bolt action or single shot in 7.62x39 it makes a nice cast boolit shooter also. I have also seen guys loading cast boolits for the AK-47 type semi autos that shoot good and work the action.

[Adk Mike]

I use a 30-06 . Long case neck it works great. There are lots of others but the amount of brass I get free and an old Sears Bolt Rifle just a lot of fun.

[Artful]

I prefer a short action and common caliber.

So your limiting it to bolt actions? 30-30 or 308 come to mind immediately like the other state.

The more frugal on powder and lead a bonus.

Most frugal on powder and lead would be pistol type cases, I you look around you can find some bolt action pistol cartridges.

Just a thought but have you considered the 300 Blackout in the Ruger
http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/models.html
http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/images/6965.jpg

Or if you can find on the Ruger 77 in 7.62x39
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/RJM52/Hunting%20Rifles/Ruger762x38062411003.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/RJM52/media/Hunting%20Rifles/Ruger762x38062411003.jpg.html)

Both give similar power to 30-30

[canyon-ghost]

I shoot 22 hornet and 32-20 in handguns, they work very good. The 22 hornet is awesomely economical, makes a lot of my weekends fun.

[starmac]

If I was going to buy another rifle strictly for shooting cast, I would try to pick one that you can take full advantage of the caliber with a cast boolit. 30/30 is the first that comes to mind, but there are others.

[btroj]

30/30 would be my choice. Anything it can do with jacketed can be replicated with cast.

[osteodoc08]

I've got the 30/30 and 32WS going already with cast guys. I'm looking for a bolt gun. Or a Ruger #1. Any bolts or #1 in 30/30?

[btroj]

An 06 is never a bad choice.

[osteodoc08]

I'll start looking for a donor gun in an -06. I think I remember a NOS Vanguard 2 floating around one of the LGS for $450. Might be a good place to start.

[Okie73]

Savage made a bolt in 30-30. I see them at shows all the time for well south of $400.

Head spacing on the rim is a big plus for those cat sneeze loads.

[starmac]

Remington also made a 30/30 bolt gun. I don't know if there is any currant offerings though.

[Butler Ford]

38-55 Win.

BF

[nekshot]

I kinda like the 7.62x39 for cast. One powder is all thats needed for full throttle, heavy hunting boolets and that be HodgenLevr powder. I would like to chamber a .308 bore barrel to this cartridge so I can use all my boolits. Next would be the ole 30-30. Now we are talking cast specific correct?

[Good Cheer]

For a cast only rifle with economy of lead as a desired characteristic, to be an off the shelf shooter with no chamber modifications:
*Rimmed case.
*Neck longer than one bullet diameter.
*.30-ish or smaller caliber.

So, there's .22 Hornet, .25-35, 30-30 or 30-40?

Wanting a .338 Federal with an extended case neck in a 99 Savage [smilie=w: but don't have time to play with the idea.

[FlatTop45LC]

I don't shoot cast in my rifles but if I did I would go with a 22 Hornet or 32-20. Either of those would easily go from squirrels to deer here in south Alabama.

[quilbilly]

In the 22 cal. the 22 hornet or 222. My wife's 243 is a dedicated cast shooter and it is a fine shooter. My 308 is dedicated for cast and it is amazing. Obviously the 30/30 is the quintessential cast shooter. Come to think of it, my 444, 357 max, 7mm TCU, 338 WM, …. all like cast too.

[gnoahhh]

I've got the 30/30 and 32WS going already with cast guys. I'm looking for a bolt gun. Or a Ruger #1. Any bolts or #1 in 30/30?

Ruger made an extremely limited run of #1 .30-30s, for a distributer. Rare as hen's teeth and priced accordingly when you see one. Another option is the .303 British in another kind of rare #1, and the .30-40 Krag in an old Ruger #3. For .30-30 bolt guns there was the Savage 340 as mentioned. A good utilitarian rifle and fairly accurate but you won't win many CBA matches with one. Next was the Remington 788. A really good gun for the money. Many Production -class events were won with it in CBA competition back in the day. Lastly (that I know of) was the Winchester M54 bolt gun. If you ever stumble onto one of those rare beasts, hock the homestead, sell your first born, or rob a 7-11- just get the money to buy it. Seriously. Nothing wrong with re-barreling a Mauser or somesuch to .30-30, although it'll be a single shot without some seriously tricky gunsmithing to boot. Don't some Italian/Japanese Winchester HiWalls come in .30-30?

The entry-level break open single shots chambered in .30-30 are crude as heck, but generally shoot well and represent good value for money spent.

[texassako]

What about one of those old Savage 23's in 32-20 or 25-20? Might have to look around for one or buy online, but one in 32-20 sounds like it would work. cheap on powder, uses lead in the weights you mention. Simpson Ltd. still has a Husqvarna 35 single shot bolt action .30-30 for something different. Needs an extractor, but one of our members here has a good write up on making a replacement.

[leadman]

A Contender carbine in 300 Whisper/Blackout, 30-30 win, etc. will give you a great cast boolit gun plus you can add different barrels. Might have a larger selection of barrels now if you go up to the Encore as the Contender I think is going to go by the wayside soon. D*** S&W!
A Handi rifle is good to but might suffer the same fate as the Contender.
A sporterized Springfield 1903 or 1903a3 makes a great cast boolit shooter. Nice guns are available for around $300.

[Good Cheer]

What about one of those old Savage 23's in 32-20 or 25-20? Might have to look around for one or buy online, but one in 32-20 sounds like it would work. cheap on powder, uses lead in the weights you mention. Simpson Ltd. still has a Husqvarna 35 single shot bolt action .30-30 for something different. Needs an extractor, but one of our members here has a good write up on making a replacement.

The Savage is nice. Grew up with a six point on the wall that Mom dropped with one in 32-20.

[JWFilips]

Love the 8 mm with a second being shared with the 30-30 and .223 ....Just kidding: I love them all......... never fail to be impressed !

[MT Gianni]

243 would be my choice in a bolt. Either the LY 87 gr or the RCBS 95.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
My first thoughts were the 30-40 Krag. Have several and only one barrel is bad enough I had to get a .316 diameter mold to get respectable groups. Nice long neck to hold any weight boolit secure and straight. Plenty of powder space and you can easily get cast pills slashing along at 2100 fps. But what if I wanted a side arm to go along with it.

So up pops the 45 Colt ! None better in easy to find rifles and revolvers. No lack of power. Round ball for bunnies,rats (trees and sewers), ground hogs and other pests. 300 - 350 grains for big nasty bitty things that tend to growl and snarl. And every other thing in between is easily tended by this excellent old caliber. As a side note any caliber that is 40 something will do the same. From caliber .41 mag to 44WCF, to 44 Mag they will all get the job done.

But then I reread the OP and thought he has the top end of power secured with a caliber .45 so why not a very fine small caliber like the already mentioned 32WCF (32-20). Have a couple of those and they will take care of most needs under 70 pounds out to 100 yards. I liked my very old Model 1873 and a Savage model 23 so much I turned one of my Dan Wessons 15-2's into a 6 inch 32-20. Have not yet found a better combination to carry about on half day searches of drain ditches and wood edges along fields searching for the east ILLinois groundhogs. Brass and molds are easily found if you try.

But then the brain said (so happy it still functions at 63 and 8000+) the caliber .357 magnum will do everything a 32WCF will do and is even available here in Peru. Available revolvers on the US of A markets would bend the torsion bars on an M60A1 tank. Rifles of all flavors are lurking in many shops, electronic sales and flea markets. The cartridge can be loaded from primer pop noise and up to power that will easily topple a 50 pound hard set ram at 220 yards. A pound of lead in Round ball will last a long afternoon of shooting or exterminate enough garden raiders to fill any freezer. Get up to 200 grains (especially in the 16 barrels) and you can topple any 200 + pound corn cruncher with a well placed shot with the right mix of boolit. Again in a pinch any manly store will have ammo. Yes I have revolvers and lever rifles in this fine medium bore caliber. I do not carry them as much as the 32WCF just because I find it too hard to leave my 23 Savage and DW revolver at home.

But if I wanted to stay "one gun"... have you tried round ball in your caliber .45 ? A .460 RB chugging along at 850 fps will humble any thing it strikes at 50 yards and less. Plenty accurate from even my old 1873 Trapdoors to smack a 6" gong at 100 yards with proper loading to make for alot of fun. The one "73" rifle needs a .463 RB to be consistent but that was easily overcome. There are for sale at times the GB Mold in .460 of the old "collar button" that shoots nicely in my rifles. Great little plinker that will easily handle most shooting at 100 yards to include 100 pound and heavier critters that need to be removed. Hard to beat a one rifle man.. which I ceased to be many years ago. But if I had to choose... caliber .45 would be right at the top of the list along with probably the .375's.
Mike in Peru

[dragon813gt]

Pick a 35 caliber cartridge. You can shoot the lighter pistol bullets in them w/ fast burning powders for economy. Or shoot the heavies w/ rifle powders for thumpers. I find them to be more forgiving then some of the smaller calibers.

[truckjohn]

I suppose I would want to know what the OP is really after? Do you want to fiddle around with high velocity or do you want to do a lot of low noise, low kick plinking?

For low noise/low kick plinking...
44 mag, 357 mag, 7.62x39... New production bolt guns are available for all of these... Ruger makes a bolt in the 44 or 357. CZ and Savage have bolt guns available for the 7.62x39. Several flavors of lever guns are available for the 44 and 357 as well....

The only downside of the 7.62x39 is the limited selection of dies available.

Otherwise - all three of these are going to be cheap to shoot, cheap to load... You could hunt with it if you want to....

If you are up for a custom single shot... 30 badger...

[Harter66]

Grab a M77 357. Then you can play with trimmed cases from 357 down to 380 from a 000B to 200gr by the book and more with some caution.

[Mohillbilly]

I went with the chamber adapters that shoot .32 in my 06 , Adapters can be had for .308 .303 brit and 7.62 r , and there are others too . I also have a few handguns in .32 . cheaper to load , fun to shoot and works better than .22 There is also dual use for full power chamber deer getter .

[osteodoc08]

OP here. My intentions where for a bolt gun. Inexpensive loading and frugal on lead. Low noise/recoil so my yungins could give her a try.

Wife went to my LGS and from her questioning, are steering her towards a lever gun as a Xmas present to me. They've never steered her wrong in the past, they know both of is fairly well. I may run by today to give a nod towards one so they can "help her choose". She recently got me a Leupold vx3 for my CDL in 30-06.

[Scharfschuetze]

Great wife that you have! Any gun is better than no gun and I hope she gets you an accurate one.

Think she'll let you open your present early?

[dtknowles]

I've got a few thurdy thurdys, 357, 45LC, 32special, 45/70 levers. I have a few bolt guns with calibers ranging from 22-250, 223, 243, 25-06, 30-06 and a ruger #1 is 338 win Mag.

In my mind I was thinking something off the 308 cartridge case. Possibly 7mm-08, 243, etc.

I was thinking about making a suggestion but this tells me I was not going to be any help.

Tim

[ballistim]

I like any of the 30 calibers, especially .308 & .300 Savage with the molds I have, also have had fun with my .30 Herrett & 32/20 (.308 bore) TC Contender barrels with cast loads. 45/70 is great too, along with rifles in pistol calibers. .358 Winchester is what I really want next with the availability of surplus brass & huge selection of molds.

[MT Chambers]

CBA records show the .308 and .30 Br. as the most accurate cast bullet calibers for fixed ammo, the .32 Miller short, .32/40, and 25/20 most accurate if breach seated.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Half the fun is the learning experience, pick a gun you like in a caliber you like, then shop for a mold and die. I've had the best luck with .30/06 and .30/40 Krag. My dedicated cast boolit '06 likes the Lyman 311332 180gr. and IMR4227 for it's best accuracy, but has been fed 100gr. rn and small charges of Red Dot for yard plinking to 20yds, RCBS 30-180-FN for hunting, and the Lyman 311299 works well. The old 1896 Krag isn't picky either. I haven't had "great" success with one of my .308's, but that one's a picky bugger anyway. I'd like to try a .338 Federal myself, or a .358 Winchester in a short cartridge, but just haven't gotten around to buying a barrel yet. Once you strike on that sweet load, just about any caliber can become a favorite pet. I've come to favor IMR 4227 as a go to powder, but that's just me.

[rosst]

i would lean towards a rifle you already own and do something different, paperpatch, longrange or both at the same time . .. that would be a challenge and a half . .. and kinda frugal

[starmac]

That is no fun, how would you wind up with a new gun thinking like that. You have to get your priorities straight. lol

[orbitalair]

Ok, where are you guys getting a dirt cheap 30-40krag???? The 2 near me that I have actually held were tagged at $1200 !!! each. They have turned into true collector items. Obviously, a new Ruger 308 is far more economical. I shoot a Lee 309-150gr in my 308, a M77Mk2 with a real short barrel.

[Bill*B]

Does it matter? I would say that a .30-30 is near ideal in caliber .30, but - my .308 Winchester loads are just as accurate, if it did take a little longer to get there, and I shoot that rifle more now. The real fun is in the experimenting - and making what you have work.

[selmerfan]

I answered your question by getting a .30-40 Krag barrel for my Stevens 44 1/2. It's purely a joy to shoot and load for with cast boolits. I selected the 311299 and haven't regretted it a bit.

[Ken in Iowa]

Ok, where are you guys getting a dirt cheap 30-40krag???? The 2 near me that I have actually held were tagged at $1200 !!! each. They have turned into true collector items. Obviously, a new Ruger 308 is far more economical. I shoot a Lee 309-150gr in my 308, a M77Mk2 with a real short barrel.

I have been a Krag fan for many years.

Because excellent specimens command premium prices, many people seem to think that any old Krag is worth a mint. In reality many are incomplete, bubba jobs or just plain worn out. One needs to be very careful and ask questions of the experts when buying the higher priced rifles.

Krag supply seems to vary across the US. The West and Midwest seem to have more to choose from.

The days of the Krag as a popular, cheap shooter are in decline. That said, I recently picked up a nice Krag sporter with an excellent replacement barrel for a reasonable price.

Krag brass has become a serious bottleneck. With the ammo shortages of recent years, little if any has been made where 308 cases are cheap and plentiful.

The Ruger was not a bad choice. I have been working with a young friend who purchased a similar Remington bolt action in 308.

[greenwart]

I would go with 30-30 for a number of reasons. First is case volume of 45 grains of water vs 56g for 308 and 69g for 30-06. This allow for less position sensitivity and an almost full case in some instances. The range of usable bullet weights are from 100g to 210g, plinking to good deer load weights, and the number of mold available are extensive. There are 61 different 311 molds listed on the Buffalo bore chart for Lyman alone. The downside is trying to find a good inexpensive bolt action or single shot. I have a Savage 325c that I picked up for $50. They are typically going for ~$200 on gun broker. It is not a great rifle, but is fun to shoot. A nice Remington or Winchester bolt in 30-30 is going to set you back quite a bit more.

Bob

[Doc Highwall]

I have a Browning Low wall in 357 Mag and a Traditional Hunter in 30-30 Win that are fun to shoot. I also just picked up a Lipsey's Ruger No 1 in 30-30 with the Circassian walnut with the Boddington style checkering.

Here is a link showing pictures of one.

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=113891

[clearwater]

I have enjoyed 30-06 in bolt
in handi-rifle I have a 30-30 reamed to 30-40 that shoots cast better than jacketed.
Also have a 357 mag handi I reamed to 357 maximum and shortened the barrel to 16.5" so it is very compact
and fun to carry as well as shoot.

I don't know which I like better. The 06 has been the quickest to find a variety of good loads for.

[GabbyM]

Wow this is like picking a favorite ice cream flavor.
I shoot cast in 222 rem, 223 rem, 243 win, 270 win, 30-30 and 30-06.
As far as I"m concerned it's all good. For paper punching and can poping. 222 Rem is my hands down favorite. I'd even take it first for coyote size varmints. Extreamly economical to shoot and the 60 grain as cast lyman #225646 at 2,400 fps hits stuff hard. I have two more bullet molds to try. 222 rem case capacity is ideal for a 22 center fire. I like the way the chamber is cut over a SAMI223. Boolits loaded to designed ddepth in case are just a few thousnadths off the lands. 1:14 twist helps shoot the little boolits faster with accuracy. Just takes 14.0 grains of AA5744 under that 60 grain bullet and a gas check that's a lower price than the 30 calibers. For extream economy one can shoot the 45 grain boolits over 7 or 8 grains of Unique.

To discover if you like casting up and shooting 22 I recomend you try some out in that 22-250 you own. Most of those have a 14 twist barrel and do very well with cast at 2,300 fps.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

You could build or buy a new bolt gun or get an ex-mil in very good condition. My purpose built Ruger No1 in 38/55 and 1:12"twist barrel is surpurb as is my Springfield A4 with a new 4 groove Remington barrel that has never seen a copper boolit. 10 shots under 1" at 100yds can't be bad!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/3006moa2_zpseb7e0a10.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/3006moa2_zpseb7e0a10.jpg.html)

[osteodoc08]

OP here. I picked up a 77 vintage Marlin 94 in 44 mag. Cant wait to get her going.

I've also been continuously eyeing a Weatherby Vanguard in 30-06. Love the walnut stock on it. After all, now that all the Remington 700's have been recalled, I have a "reason" to pick it up, RIGHT?!?!

[fa38]

-Anything with a long neck so that big bullets for the caliber do not go below the neck. 30-06, 30-40, 25-20, 222 Rem, 30x47

[Geezer in NH]

30-30 bolt gun preferably a Remington 788

[Artful]

OP here. I picked up a 77 vintage Marlin 94 in 44 mag. Cant wait to get her going.

I've also been continuously eyeing a Weatherby Vanguard in 30-06. Love the walnut stock on it. After all, now that all the Remington 700's have been recalled, I have a "reason" to pick it up, RIGHT?!?!

Does it have the Microgroove barrel?

[osteodoc08]

Yes. It has the microgroove barrel.

[irishtoo]

.45-70 either collar button or round ball. 10 grs unique. cheap and easy irishtoo

[Artful]

Yes. It has the microgroove barrel.
Slug it as I find they usually run large - and I found mine likes jacketed and gas checked more than plain base.

[truckjohn]

The 44 Mag will make a great cast-shooting gun...

Now.. For off-the-shelf ammo for the kids - Try out 44 special ammo... Typically they don't kick much, don't blast much - and still hit plenty hard... For youth/wife hunting duty - you can get the "Critical defense" 44 special... That stuff lays down some serious smack on animals...

Cast wise - the 44 Mag Marlin will do fine. Most people report that they like the WFN/LFN designs better than the SWC/Keith style... For fun plinking - you can load up soft shooting light loads that will put a HUGE smile on your face... If you are worried about hunting performance - you can load them up hotter and have no worries about terminal performance. Just remember that full house 44 Mags do kick in those light rifles...

Anyway - hope you have lots of fun with it.

Thanks

[genesis]

As I cast with just straight wheel weights, I use the heavier bullets and keep the velocity to around 1000 FPS or less in 38 Special, 357 Mag, 40S&W, and 44 Mag (loaded to 44 Special ballistics). I don't size my boolits and use Lee Liquid Alox. I can shoot a few rounds loaded hotter before I start to get leading, so I shoot the hot stuff very seldom. I sometimes use a gas check on the hotter stuff. Works for me and I get great accuracy. My 44 Mag marlin carbine handles light loads (around 1000 FPS) with pin-point accuracy and no leading.