Reliable high-volume progressive

[Tatume]

Hello Folks,

I'm getting really sick of repairing my Dillon XL 650. It's great when it works, but it breaks often. Dillon sends me parts for free, but the down time is frustrating. I'm trying to get in about 400 shots on my only day off each week, and reload about the same number of cartridges that afternoon. Every time the Dillon breaks I lose two weeks, one waiting for parts and another loading ammo so I can shoot the next weekend.

Can you suggest a reliable, progressive loader for pistol ammunition, with automatic primer and powder feed?

Thanks, Tom

[fredj338]

You have one. Something isn't set up right if you keep breaking things. My 650 has been running fine for almost two years, about 600rds a week. The only thing more reliable is my 550, just pure simple. What are you breaking?
The LNL priming system is more problematic than the Dillon. The lee, not if it were free. The RCBS is a good machine but the priming strips turn me off. Those are your options.

[garandsrus]

Tom,

I don't have anywhere near the problems you apparently are having with your 650. I do keep some spare parts around. One thing you might consider is building up a stock pile of ammo so that an outage doesn't disrupt anything and only results in the stock pile going down until the press is running again.

What types of problems are you having? What caliber?

[Petrol & Powder]

I agree with fredj338. My Dillon 550 has loaded 10's of thousands of rounds. An acquaintance has a 650 and it is equally as reliable. What are you breaking?

[Tatume]

You have one. Something isn't set up right if you keep breaking things. My 650 has been running fine for almost two years, about 600rds a week.

My XL 650 has been giving problems for awhile now, and it's getting worse. I bought it new in the 1990s, and have loaded many thousands of rounds of ammo, but now I'm thinking maybe it's just plain old worn out. I've asked Dillon for a box with the correct packing materials so I can ship it back to be rebuilt.

However, it has always been a delicate flower. It has little, fragile, plastic parts that break. If I can find a more robust machine that is a reliable high-volume loader, that I can afford, I'll buy it.

[Tatume]

I agree with fredj338. My Dillon 550 has loaded 10's of thousands of rounds. An acquaintance has a 650 and it is equally as reliable. What are you breaking?

Lately it's the ring indexer, twice in three weeks. It feeds primers sideways about 1 - 2% of the time (always did it once in awhile, now it's one or two for every hundred), and the sideways primer jams the shell plate. The jammed shell plate breaks the ring indexer.

Also, the powder measure is dribbling powder. I really don't understand this, because the powder goes through the expander plug, and it shouldn't be possible for powder to leak into the works, but it does. I clean about 20 - 30 grains of powder from the machine every 100 rounds or so.

I think the whole machine is just worn out, but like I said, it has always been delicate.

[TES]

What kind of primers are you using?

Powder dribble...? Is there a case in the powder hopper? Had that happen once but most likely a bug or other debris in the bottom..Empty it and see if there is something in there that should not be. Also check to see if the bearing (ball) is not worn out and you are not getting "index shake" with your powder spilling / shaking out of a charged case each time the machine indexes. You should be able to see the powder coming out when it reaches and stops at the next station.

Hope this helps.

TES

[btroj]

I would call Dillon and ask to send it in to them. They will give it a going over and replace anything worn or broken.
You own a very fine press, you aren't likely to find something better.

[Tatume]

I would call Dillon and ask to send it in to them. They will give it a going over and replace anything worn or broken.
You own a very fine press, you aren't likely to find something better.

You're probably right, I won't find anything better that I can afford. The only up side is that it's cold out. If it was warm, springtime weather, it would be even worse! :-)

Take care, Tom

[btroj]

My 550 is about 20 years old and I tore it down a couple years back. Cleaned and lubed all the pivot points and it made a huge difference. Not sure why I waited that long.
I have found that the press runs better if the primer slode and what not are cleaned every 500 rounds or so. Primer crud seems to be the problem.

[MtGun44]

+1 on Brad's comments. I ran a 450 for about 12-14 years, then upgraded
to a 550. Now two 550Bs (sm and lg primer systems) on the bench.
Not too familiar with the 650, but quite surprised to say "small plastic
parts" --- can't think of any plastic at all in the 550s except the primer
feed lips and have never ever replaced one of those or had any problems
with them. Over 20 years with 550, now, IIRC.

Cleaning the primer feed every 500 rds seems a bit early to me, but I do
use a small cheapie paint brush to brush down that area when the ram
is up and primer arm is back every 500 or 1000 rds. Maybe that is Brad's
cleaning, too. Also, I use DRY moly disulphide powder (not the paste),
rubbed into the surface of the metal on the primer slider.

More plastic in the Square deal, but never had any of that (bearing bushings
and sliding ways, IIRC) fail or wear out when I had my first SqDeal. On
my second - setting it up for my vacation home so I can put out some
plinking ammo when there.

Unless you are willing to go upmarket a good bit and get a Star progressive
with all the addons, or try the Dillon 1050, I think you are there.

Perhaps going "backwards" to the somewhat simpler systems of the 550 would
get you the reliability you want and still load enough ammo. The 650 primer
system is much more complex than the 550, and if that is your primary
headache, you could probably send the 650 to Dillon for a total rebuild,
then sell it and buy a new 550B and pocket some money in the process.

Also, do you have the case feeder and is it a part of the problem? I think
it has a lot of plastic parts, and I have never used one. Also, the complexity
of the basic, hand loaded feed tube is still a good bit above the 550.

If an easy 400 rds per hour or by working quickly and efficiently 500 or
more rounds per hour will meet your needs, the 550B and it's much
simpler primer feed, along with hand feeding cases and boolits might
be what you need.

Bill

[Love Life]

+1 on Brad's comments. Call Dillon and ask for them to let you ship it in for a diagnosis/rebuild, or use this as an excuse to get a Super 1050.

[williamwaco]

Don't know squat about Dillon but I have the Hornady LNL.
Doesn't break parts but have to stop to adjust something at least every 50 to 100 rounds.

[bigarm]

Have never used the 650, have two 550's and am happy with them. As others have said, send it back to Dillon. I have heard they will completely rebuild it for you and you will basically have a new machine. Good luck.

[btroj]

+1 on Brad's comments. Call Dillon and ask for them to let you ship it in for a diagnosis/rebuild, or use this as an excuse to get a Super 1050.

Yikes, a 1050? Press is awful nice but the conversion kits? Ouch. I wouldn't refuse one as a gift but too rich for my cheap blood.

I do love my blue press though. It just works.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm a huge fan of the 550. I've used the 650 but never saw the need to upgrade to one. If anything, I'll do what Mtngun44 did and get two so that I can have large and small primer set ups. About once a year I tear mine down and clean/lube it. It has a been a faithful machine and an excellent purchase.

[cainttype]

The only plastic parts that I change occasionally on my 650s are the cartridge slide from the casefeed to station one. The plastic indexer parts receive regular visual inspections and small dabs of grease at contact sufaces. Both machines have loaded tens of thousands of rounds with minimal, minor glitches only rarely occuring.
I'd heed the advise TESS gave earlier about abrupt stops when indexing. A smooth, steady stroke on the operating handle will move the shellplate gently to the next station. A rapid pull will throw the shellplate to the next index position and the abrupt stop will often throw powder from charged casings, fouling your turntable.
The 650 is a fine press. With a casefeeder production rates of 800+ per/hour are not uncommon...but a steady, smooth, methodical approach is the way to go.

[kevmc]

I'm still running an old Hornady Pro-jector...(model b4 LNL)
It seems pretty bulletproof to me, I load about 700 a week.......got it from a guy who couldn't make it run.....
auto primer feed, rcbs uniflow powdermeasure.....
might find a good used one...

[prs]

And youse guys laugh at the poor little LoadMaster. I like to try new things, and have debated whether my next press is a 650 or Hornady Ammo Factory. Trouble is, this damned Lee *** just keeps cranking out loads with relatively little trouble and I have had it for, what? 20 years more or less. When it fails me, I will do one or the other. I load all my own and I shoot often and have no problem keeping ammo stockpiled when I can get primers and powder. However, I agree with others, the OP should get the press repaired and tuned-up and crank on.

prs

[dragonrider]

My 650 has never given problems like that described by the OP. Can only agree with others above that recommend sending the entire machine back to Dillon for repair.

[Iron Whittler]

My 650 is one of the very first built(has steel head on ram). I purchased used from commercial reloader for local sheriff dept. It loaded a many K rounds before I got it. It has seen many K of pistol and rifle ammo since I have owned it. I just keep it clean and adjust when changing calibers. Otherwise, I call it quits while the 650 is waiting for me to come back for more. :-o

[kir_kenix]

As far as reliability, the only way you are going to outclass a Dillon (be that SD, 450, 550, 650, etc) is going to a single stage. I can't imagine anything being more reliable then a Forster Co Ax, but production is going to be a fraction of what you can pump out with the Dillon. I'd send your press back to Dillon and let them get it running right.


Only other suggestion I can think of is the Dies you are using. I have had a couple of issues using certain dies in my 550 which drove me crazy for a while.

[sparky45]

I have a 650 and it's worked without fail since day 1. Keep it clean and well lubed and it's good to go. I also have (2) Lee Loadmasters for loading .380's and 45ACP. Going to get another shell plate so I can load 44-40. The 650 is used for .223; 300 Blackout; 30-30 and 45 Colt.
As others have suggested, it's time for a trip back to Dillon for a tune up.

[Tatume]

Thanks for all the suggestions fellows. Today I disassembled the machine and put it back together and got it working. Fortunately, I had spare parts. It is up and running again, everything is lubricated and adjusted, and it seems to be working fine. But, I'm still thinking about making some changes.

I think the first thing I'll do is get a set of Dillon dies. Although I can't imagine how changing the dies would make the machine more reliable, I've read here and elsewhere numerous times that it does. We shall see.

The next thing is to get the parts and upgrade one of my Dillon 450 machines to a 550B. That way I'll have a fallback position when the XL 650 breaks again. If the XL 650 does break again in 2014 it's going back to Dillon. But at least I'll be able to continue loading and shooting.

I really do appreciate everything everyone suggested, too many to thank individually so please forgive me.

Sincerely, Tom

[Larry Gibson]

Tatume

I've had Dillon's 550B and SDB for years. Have moved a couple times in there and have mounted them on different benches. The problems you relate I have experienced before. Either I had not set the machine up and adjusted it correctly or, most often, the bench was not sturdy enough. I found a rock solid bench is needed with no flex in it when operating the machine (even a little flex causes primer feed problems). I now have a custom made bench all my presses are mounted on and have not had a single problem (I did learn how to properly set the machines up and adjust the dies and powder throwers). On the other benches a large 5/8" thick steal plate (8" x 16") securely bolted to the top of the bench took all the flex and movement out and the problems went away.

Larry Gibson

[dondiego]

That must be my problem then too - my bench. Primer feed problems have plagued my 650.

[Love Life]

Yikes, a 1050? Press is awful nice but the conversion kits? Ouch. I wouldn't refuse one as a gift but too rich for my cheap blood.

I do love my blue press though. It just works.

I sold mine when I exited stage left from the brass biz. That machine is so fast, that I would get all my loading for the year done in 4 days, and then look around and say "Now what!?" as I looked for something to do.

[Jack Stanley]

The 550 I have is only a shadow of your 650 I'm sure Since I bought it in the late eighties loaded more rounds than I have accurate count . I has been on two different benches both solid and bolted to the wall as well . It does get cleaned about every two or three M but normally after a long run of ammo . Longest run was 12.5M and it was getting a little squirrelly near the end of the run . Probably 300M through the press and the only major part I needed was a bell crank for the powder measure . They replaced the whole measure for me instead .

Jack

[wv109323]

Try a Star. I have never replaced a part due to wear or breakage. The Dillon is acceptable but it does have a lot of parts Mickey Mouse would be proud of. Most are in the primer area. You do get more exercise with the Dillon. I loaded 500 rounds of 9mm and had to get down in the floor to pick up 20 spent primers that missed the primer cup.

[btroj]

I sold mine when I exited stage left from the brass biz. That machine is so fast, that I would get all my loading for the year done in 4 days, and then look around and say "Now what!?" as I looked for something to do.

The speed is nice, I just can't justify the need. When you processed all those 308 cases it was a necessity. My 550 can load ammo plenty fast compared to my shooting needs.

A least you didn't keep buying brass to load, you wouldn't be able to find anything under the piles of loaded ammo.

[5Shot]

I would definitely not recommend going with a Hornady LNL AP. I had one and was so frustrated trying to get it to feed brass, eject finished rounds, etc. that I sold it. I bought a 650 and I don't think I'll ever go back.

I would definitely send it in for a once over - if it is severely out of date they have been know to upgrade to the latest and greatest version. Something sounds off for sure.

[stephen m weiss]

Holy smoke how do you shoot 500 or more a week? I thought my Lee Load Master made more than I could shoot.. 25,000 rounds a year? Loading for a swat team or something? Ok sure I take care of 5 kids and dont have a range in my backyard.. but but but.. I guess mebbie with ammo the way it has been side jobs get bigger....

[prs]

The comments about a rock solid bench seem to hold true for all progressive machines. I've people trying to reload with presses C clamped to what is nothing more than a light coffee table; just will not work.

prs

[Garyshome]

550 works like a charm.

[stephen m weiss]

I switched from bench to screwing them into the end of a 4x6 which is the vertical post of the press stand. You can bet that is stiff. I did a design where for a $10 2x6x8' you can make a press stand for 3 cuts and like 16 nails. It wouldnt be as stiff as the 4x6 though. It works for my single stage tho, and doesnt take up much floor space. Now I am glad I used the 4x6 even though it was just scrap I had at the time. I gotta figure out how to post pictures. There have to be others who would like to spend 5 or 10 bucks rather than hundreds. I did it so it was light and easy to toss in my truck to take to my cabin if I choose.

[MtGun44]

When I was competing in IPSC, I burned between 15 and 25K rounds of .45 ACP
per year, and I was a PIKER compared to the SERIOUS guys. I know one guy that shot the
whole Bianchi Cup match something like 3 times a week . . . . . . plus specific practice on
"problem areas". He eventually finished in the top 10 at Bianchi, best I ever did was
middle of the pack.

15,000 rds divided by 52 weeks gives only 288 rds per week and that would be very low,
since I shot a two stage Friday match every weekend and then two Saturday matches per
month with 3-4 stages, plus a minimum of one 300 rd practice session per week and often
two of them.

25,000 rds is only 480 rds per week, fortunately only about an hour a week on the Dillon
550 to keep up.

The serious guys practiced a lot more.

Bill

[TheDoctor]

If that 650 keeps giving you problems, I have a loadmaster I'll swap ya!:bigsmyl2:

[prs]

MtGun partly said; "25,000 rds is only 480 rds per week, fortunately only about an hour a week on the Dillon 550 to keep up."

And that seems to be pretty consistent with claims for speed. I don't think I get that many rounds per hour, although getting over 8 per minute is no trick at all. I get in not big rush, but what seems to break the pace is adding brass to the feeder and filling the primer feeds and then there is setting-up for the load of the day, if its changed. So, assuming you are not in a race against the clock, is it fair to say these claims discount the time not actually spent at cranking the lever?

prs

[slughammer]

Lately it's the ring indexer, twice in three weeks. It feeds primers sideways about 1 - 2% of the time (always did it once in awhile, now it's one or two for every hundred), and the sideways primer jams the shell plate. The jammed shell plate breaks the ring indexer.


Make sure the primer ring indexes the primer over the primer punch right into the center of the shell plate. You may need to debur the 2 mounting holes to get a little play in order to rotate the assy.

Also look at the case locator tab and its adjustment. Figures 194 & 195 in the manual.
http://dillonhelp.com/Dillon%20Manual%20PDFs/XL650v6p1.pdf

[Tatume]

Make sure the primer ring indexes the primer over the primer punch right into the center of the shell plate. You may need to debur the 2 mounting holes to get a little play in order to rotate the assy.

Also look at the case locator tab and its adjustment. Figures 194 & 195 in the manual.
http://dillonhelp.com/Dillon%20Manual%20PDFs/XL650v6p1.pdf

Thanks for the pointers. The tech at Dillon said he thought the spring on the primer punch may be weak, and he's sending me a new one. This will allow the punch to stand "proud" and will tip primers as they are moved into position.

As soon as I get home this afternoon I will check the adjustment on the locator tab. I had it adjusted, but I've had the assembly off so many times that it may be maladjusted now.

Take care, Tom

[bruce381]

Hmm never have had sideways primers Maybe adjust somthing. Only powder drible I have got is from fine ball powder like H110 or Acurate 2 otherwsie about 20 years on my 650 and it is more reliable than me LOL.