What gives?

[jonk]

We have a lot of smart guys on the board, many smarter than I am. However, I am a bit puzzled.

Have the laws of physics broken down? So things work one way for one person and one way for another?

I'm speaking of the debate on Lee Liquid Alox, often abbreviated LLA by myself and others.

It seems to me that people who have tried LLA fall into one of 3 categories.
1. They like it and use it in everything and swear they have no leading and excellant accuracy.
2. They like it but don't use it in everything.
3. They despise it and vilify it and says it leads the pi$$ out of everything with abysmal accuracy.

So.... I actually accept that both sides are right. I mean, experienced shooters and casters who know what they are doing get two totally different results. I believe that both sides are being honest, based on results. So what gives? Why this dichotomy?

Personally I fall in category two. I've never had problems with LLA and still use a lot of it (I began with it when I started casting) but also have an RCBS lubri-sizer- I just like the look of bullets with a full lube groove, esp. for rifles. But I never have had issues with leading or accuracy with LLA and in fact often have greater accuracy using it than with some lubes.

[Bass Ackward]

You trying to start a fight?

[44man]

I fall into all three! :mrgreen: It works fine for my light plinking loads but fails totally with my heavy hunting loads. The same happens to me with any form of Alox, whether LLA or 50-50. 50-50 IS much better because of the wax and can be used with higher velocities.
Lube is something where how it works depends on what you shoot.
I am convinced that when pushed too hard with high pressures, Alox burns in the bore more then with light loads. All of you know it SMOKES. Only stuff that burns makes smoke. I don't like ash left in my bores.
This is a large subject with BPCR shooters that look for high temp oils and low smoke point components. You need the lube to hold up and last to the end of the barrel.

[Leftoverdj]

I'm category 2 as well. In the immortal words of Dan Jenkins, " There ain't never nothing that is dead solid perfect." I have not found LLA to be as good as its advocates claim, nor as bad as its detractors claim. It'll lube a whole lot of bullets in next to no time, and it does its job in many of my applications well enough for my purposes.

I do a great deal of plinking with .38 Specials in a scoped Handi. Never had any leading with LLA (or with the other lubes I've tried). Never had any real accuracy problems although Rooster Jacket seems to give very slightly poorer accuracy. That's a very undemanding use, but Lee's 358-148-WC will shoot into an inch at 50 yards when lubed with LLA and that's as good as I will ever need.

Truth to tell, it's the lube buildup in the seating die that bothers me more than anything else about LLA. It ain't the lube I use for high performance loads, but it's plenty good for most of what I do.

[fishhawk]

i just didn't like dealing with the mess and waiting for it to dry. if i wanted to do 50 boolits i didn't want to wait now i do it in the lubersizer and i'm done with it. as far as leading never had a problem with it in the ctgs i loaded.

[EDK]

I just got my 2 cavity RANCH DOG 432 265 and a .432 sizer for my Star. That doesn't look like a lot of lube to me after sizing. I may just mic for size and then use LLA. The RANCH DOGS are for MARLIN Cowboy rifles..I'll be pushing them some hotter than I do my pistol ammo. I've been looking for "THE CAST BOOLIT" for 44 MARLIN 1894s since I got the first one back in '73 and this looks good. There's sure been a lot written about MARLINS and cast boolits...and a lot of it very vague that boils down to "I don't know or I ain't telling."

I've been using LYMAN cowboy boolits in 357 and 44 for several years plus #431244 and the 44 full wadcutter from the GLL group buy lately. The older designs sure help LARS stay in the lube business. LOL!

No experience at all with LLA, but it's what the boolit was designed around...and it sure looks like Mike does his homework on designs and testing. I'll check out LARS for XLOX..price is great; shipping not so great. I don't know of anyplace within driving distance who has LLA.

Jump in and save me from "having to re-invent the wheel."

:cbpour::redneck:

[Scrounger]

There was a group buy on liquid alox last year, great price. Maybe one of the guys has an extra quart or so he can sell you. That's a lot of alox, especially when you cut it with mineral spirits.

[mroliver77]

I keep hearing how fast LLA is. Following direction and it seems most do it this way you roll them around in a cup or baggie with alox in it. Take them out wipe the bottoms,and stand each one on its bottom(using tweezers,needle nose or getting it all over your fingers). This just dont get it for me. I have shot lots of LLA coated peestol boolits and had no problem with leading. Then again I have tried wax, crayons,crisco,face cream and cracked feet wax with mostly good results at .38 WC speeds. I just love my Star sizer! I would much rather use my Lyman sizer than TL. I used some 50-50 in peestols and 45-70 plinkers. I went to a gathering of the Leverguns people a couple years back and they were a laughing at all the smoke I made with the alox lube.
EDK I would try the Ranch Dog boolit with regular lube and see how it works. With todays lubes you might be surprised. I think most boolits use way more lube than they need.
J

[Maineboy]

I use LLA exclusively...with a catch. I rarely push gas checked boolits over 1900 fps and plain based boolits over 1300 fps. LLA works very well for me in those applications, meaning good accuracy and little or no leading. Of course, the boolit must be sized and seated correctly and the barrel in decent shape as well. If those things are not in place, you'll probably have problems no matter what the lube is. I also vary the thickness of coating according to the expected velocity. Boolits shot at 1200 fps don't need very much lube, at 1900 fps, they need more. When I do push boolits faster, I pan lube the LLA treated boolits in Felix Lube in order to fill the grooves. In most calibers this system works pretty well, but with my 45-70, I find that the "LLA/Felix Lube" treatment works best when pushing boolits over 1600 fps.
I don't even own a sizer-luber anymore. I had an old Lyman for awhile but sold it about 25 years ago. I don't miss it one bit.

[Buckshot]

...............I use LA on all bore rider boolits before lubing the lube grooves. I also use it for plinker pistol loads.

..............Buckshot

[Lloyd Smale]

You have to consider that everyone doesnt have the same need in a lube. Some guys dont shoot cast bullets for anything but plinking and use low velocitys. Some guys dont have the same needs for a lube to prevent leading either. They shoot maybe 50 rounds out of a gun and take it home and clean it. Even accuracy has a different meaning to some guys. Some are happy with a load that will hit a beer can 3 times out of 6 at 25 yards. I personaly dont care for it but use it for some things. Its a fast easy way to make plinking bullets for the 38s ect. Just cast them, leave them unsized and tumble lube them. It works just fine for that application for me. to defend it a little ill go the other way. Some of the guys that bad mouth it dont take the time to find the right load and proper size to shoot in there guns and when it doesnt perform because of there lazyness they proclaim it as junk. I think its acutally a very small percentage of people that claim its better then a good lube and a lubesizer. Some will claim it is AS GOOD but few say better. Its a good deal for someone who wants to save some time or someone that cant afford to step up to a lubesizer but in my opionion is surely not a mirrical lube.

[jonk]

No, no miracle; and if it has a failing it is that in a long barrel it often isn't enough lube for me, nor does it work well above around 1400 to 1600 fps. But for handgun I haven't found anything to be better- though some are as good.