NOE 225 45Gr. WFN

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I can't get these to consistently seat straight :cry:

Reference:
http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php?topic=222.msg1138#msg1138

I cast and lube sized a bunch of these a couple months ago.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?249238-NOE-225-45Gr-WFN&p=2920298&viewfull=1#post2920298

I finally got to loading them in 22 hornet in the last few days, in the short hours of daylight after work. I have two Lee seater dies. One from the standard pacesetter die set, and the dead length seater that comes with the neck sizer die. The dead length die has a different looking seater stem, which was promising when I had issues with the standard seater die. But I had the same dismal results of crooked (poor runout) looking seated boolits. Now before you make the quick and short reply that Lee seater dies suck, I do know that and have already bought/ordered a vintage/used Bonanza BR die set from fleabay...But why I am posting this here in results subforum, is I'm wondering if anyone has this issue with this particular NEW design? Meaning, is this extra wide meplat an issue ?

FYI, I have loaded plenty of 22 hornet ammo with these Lee dies using jwords as well as boolits (Bator,HM², and the NOE copy of RCBS 22-055) and they all seat concentric (gauged by my eye while rolling the loaded ammo on a flat surface). When I seat these WFN boolits, I can see the issue, even before rolling them...and I guarantee, anyone else, even an untrained eye looking at one of these while I roll it on a flat surface can see the crookedness.

OK, so if you read all that, I will ask again, in case you lost track...
Has anyone else had an issue seating this particular boolit ?
thanks,
Jon



PS, I plan to take the 30 or so loaded rounds to the range today, if for no other reason, to remove the boolits from the loaded rounds, and hopefully correct any issues in the brass/neck (via fireforming to the chamber) that may have been caused by pushing a boolit non-concentrically into the 22 hornets fragile case...cuz I can see a slight bulge on one side of most of them :cry:

[richhodg66]

I bought this mold with all plain based cavities and they seem to seat just fine in my Lee dies. I do use one of their Universal Expander dies first, I also use one of their neck size only dies, not sure if that means anything or not.

This bullet shoots well given what I am doing with it; light loads of Bullseye to replicate .22 LR ballistics. I've only shot it at 25 yards so far as well, which is realistic squirrel hunting distance in my experience.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I bought this mold with all plain based cavities and they seem to seat just fine in my Lee dies. I do use one of their Universal Expander dies first, I also use one of their neck size only dies, not sure if that means anything or not.

This bullet shoots well given what I am doing with it; light loads of Bullseye to replicate .22 LR ballistics. I've only shot it at 25 yards so far as well, which is realistic squirrel hunting distance in my experience.

Like yours, my mold is plain base only. Yep, the ".22 LR ballistics" was the primary reason for me as well, more on that at the end of this post with the 'white' target. But these boolits cast so well and looked so nice, I thought I'd also load some to 22WMR speeds using some vintage 2400 by Herc.

So, I did get out shooting this morning, and a excellent morning it was. I brought a variety of my handloads to shoot in my Ruger #3 with a recently mounted weaver T10...love this scope :)

Targets #1 through #5 were the NOE 225-45 WFN lubed with SL68, and of course, these were the one's in question, that were seated crooked. I am surprised how good they actually shot, but granted it was only 50 yards...I thought I'd have more of a pattern.

Lower left target were a load with Unique and the 62gr HM². I guess the boolit is just too long and heavy for the Ruger's 16 twist barrel. I loaded some of these, just to confirm my Lee seater die could seat them straight, after I had trouble with the NOE WFN. Using my visual/rolling test for runout, these looked perfect.

The two targets to the lower right were some leftover Bator's loaded with lil'gun from a couple years ago. The best load from that test was 6.8gr, I'm saving those...So I was just blasting these other Bator loads to free up the brass.

All shots on this target were from 50 yards, Standing, with my hand and gun forearm resting against a tree.


http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/target22hornNOE22545andothers_zps3427d7a5.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/target22hornNOE22545andothers_zps3427d7a5.jpg.html )


OK, I also loaded some of the NOE WFN with 1.5gr of Bullseye, Yes, these were seated crooked as well. I'm guessing these were going about 850fps. I shot 'offhand' at 25 yards. I didn't change the scope setting from shooting the previous ammo, I was quite pleased with this group, with the exception of the one I pulled :( ...the crosshairs were aimed at the 'red' cross, so I could easily see the hits as I shot them (I have issues with our target backer and the big black dot in the center). Alrighty...Only an inch low, that was nice...the remaining handloads I'm saving and will hopefully get used to thin the local rabbit herd, in my yard, there'll never be a shot beyond 25 yards for that usage. I may try some with 1.0gr when I get the Bonanza BR seater die.

PS, when loading such a light charge of Bullseye in 22 hornet, is it prudent to use a Dacron tuft to hold the charge next to the primer ? Or is it unwise? as I have read NOT to do that with fast burning powders...I'm wondering if the subsonic 'lite' charge is the exception?
Thanks in advance,
Jon


http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/target22hornNOE225451o5grbulleye_zps0741de84.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/target22hornNOE225451o5grbulleye_zps0741de84.jpg.h tml)

[TCFAN]

I also bought this mold but in a gas check version.I am using Redding dies with a Lyman m die.I see no run out on my loaded rounds that I can detect.I am using these boolits in a 218 Bee.

As to the Dacron question,I have been using 2.5grs of Bullseye in the Bee case with the 225107 NOE boolit and have seen no reason to use any kind of a filler.That pushes the boolit to about 1300 fps and make a fine squirrel load............Terry

[richhodg66]

That 1.5 grain of Bullseye is nice with three kinds of bullets I've tried, this plain based and the Bator and Lyman 225438 without checks. Almost too quiet, the first few times I shot some, I checked to make sure the bullet actually left the barrel. Rifle is an old Savage 219 with a 4x Burris scope.

This NOE bullet shoots the best of those three, not suprising since it is the only one not designed to have a check.

I haven't been using any fillers with these. One of the things on my to do list is to figure out a way to check position sensitivity of such light loads.

By the way, nice group, especially for offhand. I'd say you have your small game load figured out.

[richhodg66]

I also bought this mold but in a gas check version.I am using Redding dies with a Lyman m die.I see no run out on my loaded rounds that I can detect.I am using these boolits in a 218 Bee.

As to the Dacron question,I have been using 2.5grs of Bullseye in the Bee case with the 225107 NOE boolit and have seen no reason to use any kind of a filler.That pushes the boolit to about 1300 fps and make a fine squirrel load............Terry

What rifle are you shooting this in? I've always been intrigued with the .218 Bee, not many rifles chambered in it.

[TCFAN]

What rifle are you shooting this in? I've always been intrigued with the .218 Bee, not many rifles chambered in it.

My rifle for the Bee is a T/C Encore with a MGM 22 inch barrel with a 1-14 inch twist.I have been very pleased with the way it shoots cast as well as jacketed bullets.If you think you might want a 218 Bee some day start now looking for brass. It is some what hard to find...............Terry

[richhodg66]

I always thought the .218 Bee was inherrently a better cartridge than the Hornet. Still remember a Winchester 43 about 25 years ago I should have bought.

This .219 I have has a rough patch in the barrel, but seems to shoot well enough for my needs. I considered sleeving it at one point. If I ever change my mind and decide to do it, .218 Bee would be a strong possibility.

[richhodg66]

JonB, do you use any crimp at all? Thus far, I haven't, but I got one of the Lee factocy crimp dies for .22 Hornet thinking it may help.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

JonB, do you use any crimp at all? Thus far, I haven't, but I got one of the Lee factocy crimp dies for .22 Hornet thinking it may help.
Crimp? not really,
I do use the Lee FCD, but I am barely touching the case...basically I am just closing the case mouth flare.

[richhodg66]

I haven't even been doing that, the rifle closes without having to do anything about the slight case mouth expansion. I'm generally of the opinion that the less sizing and crimping you can get away with, the better, but it occurs to me the primer may be sending that little bullet on its way before the powder really gets ignited. I do use small pistol primers for that reason, seems to work OK.

[vernm]

JonB. Just a heads up. The sleeve in the Bonanza/Forester seating die that holds the bullet straight while seating has a very tight tolerance.

I use the Bonanza BR dies for .222Rem. Cast bullets from alloy#2 sized at .2255 to .2260 hang up in the sleeve because they are too large.

Forester will make you a custom diameter sleeve or you can hone it out if you only want to use it for cast.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

JonB. Just a heads up. The sleeve in the Bonanza/Forester seating die that holds the bullet straight while seating has a very tight tolerance.

I use the Bonanza BR dies for .222Rem. Cast bullets from alloy#2 sized at .2255 to .2260 hang up in the sleeve because they are too large.

Forester will make you a custom diameter sleeve or you can hone it out if you only want to use it for cast.
Vern,
Thanks for the heads up, This is my 3rd Bonanza BR die set (I also have the 222rem and 243win). So I am aware they are tight. If necessary, I will be resizing the boolits to .225 before I start honing anything :)
Jon

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

JonB. Just a heads up. The sleeve in the Bonanza/Forester seating die that holds the bullet straight while seating has a very tight tolerance.

I use the Bonanza BR dies for .222Rem. Cast bullets from alloy#2 sized at .2255 to .2260 hang up in the sleeve because they are too large.

Forester will make you a custom diameter sleeve or you can hone it out if you only want to use it for cast.


Vern,
Thanks for the heads up, This is my 3rd Bonanza BR die set (I also have the 222rem and 243win). So I am aware they are tight. If necessary, I will be resizing the boolits to .225 before I start honing anything :)
Jon
I got the vintage 22 Hornet Bonanza BR dies in the mail today from the fleabay seller. Just like the Bonanza BR 222rem dies I got a year ago, they're like brand new, except for the 30+ year old dried oil inside :)

After I cleaned them and put a lite coat of Kano machine tool oil on it, I installed it in a press and did a little test seating. Using the NOE 225-45 WFN...the troublesome one. I was able to easily seat a boolit that was sized to .226 AND I was also able to seat one as cast .2275 It was a tight squeeze, but was able to seat it and lower the cartridge out of the die...and the bullet stayed in the case to the same OAL as the other round with a .226 seated in it. AND most importantly, Runout 'looks' as good as it gets using the neked eye ;)

[vernm]

Glad you didn't have a problem. Looks like you are GTG.

Vern

[richhodg66]

AFter this afternoon, I can say for sure that Squirrels do not like this bullet at all. I'm sold on it as a small game bullet now. Gonna try some of these loads at longer ranges now to see what it'll do beyond 25 yards or so.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Bump for more hornet talk :)

[richhodg66]

Nothing really new to report on the 225 WFN, it does work great on squirrels. I tried some of the Lee Bator bullets with 5 grains f 2400 the other day, very nice load and shoots well.

I picked up one of the Lee FCD dies, haven't used it yet and may not bother, but I'd like to see if it affects accuracy at all.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Richhodg66, I just bumped this thread, because I am discussing a boolit swap with another member, who is looking to start out loading some 22 boolits, with the NOE as well as (maybe) the bator. Thought others might chime in as well...and also thought that member might pose a Q or two.

[TCFAN]

I shot some test loads yesterday with the 225 WFN although not in a hornet.Used 2400 and 4227. Groups ran in the 1 1/2 inch range for ten shots at 65 yards.Didn't have my Chrony set up to check velocity but they should run in the 2000+ range. Still got some more loads to shoot with AA1680. Ran out of light yesterday.......................Terry

[richhodg66]

Were these in a .223? I'll do that when I get around to it as well.

[TCFAN]

Were these in a .223? I'll do that when I get around to it as well.

No a 218 Bee.............Terry

[richhodg66]

No a 218 Bee.............Terry

That's right, I forgot and didn't read back through the thread. Neat little cartridge.

I ran into scope mounting problems with my Stevens 322 I picked up, but once I get it sorted out, I plan on trying these through it. I wonder if it'll outshoot this little 219?

[TCFAN]

219??? Like in a 219 Zipper or 219 Donaldson Wasp???

[richhodg66]

Savage Model 219 in .22 Hornet. I've had it about a year now and have been impressed with it for what I've been using it for. Just about the perfect stalking rifle. I recently found another one cheap that has a ruined barrel, should be here in a day or two. Gonna have it sleeved to something else, probably .32 S&W.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?263868-First-cast-kills-of-the-year

[TCFAN]

Ok now I am on the same page.. Guess I need to read back through some old posts also...........Terry

[CWME]

131069Sent some of these down range this afternoon. Five shot groups about a quarter at 50 yards. 14 gr of H4895 in a 222 rem, AL gas check, tac 1 lube. 10 degrees with a bone chilling wind.

[richhodg66]

Very nice. Maybe I should have gotten one in gas checked instead of all plain based. I like this bullet for what I'm using it for though.

[TCFAN]

CWME, nice group with your 225-45 WFN.Haven't tried that boolit in my 222 yet. I sure like the nice big hole it make in the target.............Terry

[CWME]

I almost got the plain base version but then I have the NOE 225107 in a plain base. It was tempting though...


I like the big hole too! Won't need to push these very fast to get great results on the vermin I suspect. Spring is coming right? Bet the groups will be better without the teeth chattering and the 40mph wind gusts.

[richhodg66]

I've been shooting mine real slow, but have been pretty impressed with the terminal performance of it so far on a few squirrels and one possum. That big meplat seems to hit hard for the size of bullet it is.

[SSGOldfart]

I bought this mold with all plain based cavities and they seem to seat just fine in my Lee dies. I do use one of their Universal Expander dies first, I also use one of their neck size only dies, not sure if that means anything or not.

This bullet shoots well given what I am doing with it; light loads of Bullseye to replicate .22 LR ballistics. I've only shot it at 25 yards so far as well, which is realistic squirrel hunting distance in my experience.

Sir could you please share your light load? I'm working with the same mold myself loading in a 22-250 no trouble seating the boolit

[richhodg66]

Anywhere from 1.5 to 2 grains. The 1.5 must be subsonic, you can barely hear it. Accuracy sweet spot seems to be around 1.8. By the way, this worked well with the Lyman 225438 and the Lee Bator bullets without gas checks too. I haven't shot it much beyond 25 yards, but definitely squirrel head accurate at that range if the shooter is.

[CWME]

I sent one of these little babies into the back of a squirrels head this afternoon. It was the same load as I was shooting above but in a 221 fireball I made this winter. Holy cow, it turned his head inside out. I mean complete hamburger brains splattered all over the tree. I thought I had missed at the shot because he never moved. I looked up and he was on the tree still. I peeked back through the scope and watched him bleed out and then fall off the tree. Good thing it was a head shot and not through the shoulder, there wouldn't have been anything left.

[richhodg66]

I have only body shot squirrels with it so far, tissue damage didn't seem bad, though velocities were low. It did anchor the squirrels and put them down where they were, so yeah, that WFN nose design does transfer energy quite well.

[CWME]

I am definately hot rodding this little hammer much more than is needed. I will either hold to head shots on game with the 14 GR 4895 load or do what you have been with the BE loads. I have shot some good groups with light BE loads in the 223 and other boolits. Just figured I would share my on game results to go with my on target work above. I saw damage that is on par with light varmint bullets going 13-1400 FPS faster. I would have no second thoughts about punching a ground hog or a coyote if it was inside 100 yards with the faster load. Anyway all I am saying is this is a great little boolit that I can see filling a lot of shoes.

[richhodg66]

Is yours the gas checked version of plain based? I opted for all plain based because I wanted to shoot these light loads, but I'm curious how it would work at faster speeds.

[CWME]

Mine is the GC version

[CWME]

Got some new people who moved in next door. They start screaming their fool heads off at the sound of a shot so went back to the bench for a quiet load. Been running 3.4 grains of trail boss in the .221 fireball which is quiet. The TB fills about 3/4 of the case. Shots on squirrels anchor them in place.

[richhodg66]

Don't know how close your neighbors are, but 1.5 grains of Bullseye is very quiet in a long barreled .22 Hornet and works fine even with gas check designs and no gas check in my experience. I probably wouldn't shoot it in town, but it's quieter than even a standard velocity .22 LR is.

[CWME]

They are a couple hundred yards away. When they cleared my lot back in the early 80's all of the dirt was pushed into a 30' pile lining the back of property so I have a great back stop and nothing behind that for a few miles. I am just busting squirrels that like to nest in my shop and destroy my bird feeders. I looked up this post to see what your load was, got to the loading room and saw the old can of TB. Figured I would try to get that used up instead but its going slow at 3.4 grains a shot. Once that is gone I will fall back on the bullseye.