Gunshot first aid - new technology coming !

[Artful]

Coming available to a vet after January 2015

VetiGel - from Suneris - http://www.suneris.co/about/
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/nyu-student-creates-cure-excess-bleeding-article-1.1286843


A student at New York University has invented what could end up being a cure for excessive bleeding.

Veti-Gel is a new medical product designed to help close up wounds quickly and stop major bleeding.

Joe Landolina, a third-year student at NYU Polytechnic, helped discover the compound and co-founded a business called Suneris Inc. that is built around the idea.

The creation dramatically speeds the body’s natural clotting so that deep wounds, even those to arteries or internal organs, are able to close up within seconds, he said.

“It instantly tells the body, 'OK, stop the bleeding,' but also it starts the healing process," Landolina told TechNewsDaily.

"I have seen (Veti-Gel) close any size wound that it is applied to," said Landolina. "As long as you can cover it, it can close it,” he added.

The substance, a plant-based synthetic form of a compound in blood that triggers clotting, imitates the body's own healing chemistry to rapidly close punctures to soft tissue.

The body then apparently recognizes the synthetic chemicals as if they were natural, which allows the gel to “mesh into the wound surface, immediately forming a tight seal over the wound,” according to the Suneris website.

Veti-Gel then activates the body’s own clotting process.

In tests, Landolina and his colleagues were able to seal deeps cut into rats’ livers and carotid arteries, which gives Landolina hope that the product might eventually be used in surgical settings to reduce severe bleeding.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-5wqwp64MM

Human use probably about a year after that!

Way ahead of quick-clot

[twc1964]

How long do you think it will be before our troops are issued this stuff? Im betting not too long. Sounds promising.

[Mike in TX]

The problem with quick clotting is that a clot may dislodge and become an embolism. That is one of the problems with Quick Clot though it is better to stop the bleeding and take care of an embolism in a hospital.

[MaryB]

Having gone through a major leg clot that went into my left lung I debate that... 5 days in the hospital on clot busters was not a picnic

[xs11jack]

How does this help internal damage caused by a bullet traveling through the body? If you can't get the clotting agent to the wound, it won't help. This stuff seems best for surface wounds. Knife cuts, accident wounds, etc.
Ole Jack

[Love Life]

Dang. This'll take all the fun out of opening a wound enough to get the quick-clot on the bleeder...and the follow on sissy screams from the quick-clot...um reaction.

In all seriousness, if this is the real deal then that is pretty legit.

[Love Life]

How does this help internal damage caused by a bullet traveling through the body? If you can't get the clotting agent to the wound, it won't help. This stuff seems best for surface wounds. Knife cuts, accident wounds, etc.
Ole Jack

Sometimes you have to open the wound to get to the bleeder. Tourniquet plus clotting agent. Muscle damage is not a major concern if a bleeder is the case. Stop the bleeding at the time so they can make it through the golden hour.

[Bullwolf]

Let's hear it for technology.

We have come a long ways from simple hemostatic powder, and other antihemorrhagic agents like the stytptic pencil for those annoying cuts while shaving.

When younger, I witnessed a really nasty chainsaw accident on the farm, very far from civilization. That sort of thing tends to stick in your head.

These days my first aid kit always contains a blood clotting agent (Celox). I have also found that feminine pads will make a great impromptu wound bandage.

YouTube video on Celox below for the right now generation, and for those who haven't seen or heard of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mmZJMNsEsY&feature=player_detailpage

I have bag of Celox granules in the first aid kit at home, and in the truck. Much like a back up gun I hope to never have to use it, but I do find comfort that it's there.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71vjPV8WvRL._SY355_.jpg
I am aware of the clotting risks, but if someone is bleeding out typically its better to stop the bleeding ASAP, and get them someplace quickly with real medical care.

I imagine those who have seen combat first hand would have much more experience with these clotting agents and their use.

My medical expertise (or lack thereof) only comes from growing up on a farm, raising, tending, and occasionally butchering livestock... As well as doing triage on the occasional accident. Remember I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV.

While not personally familiar with the quick clot brand ,I assumed it functioned much the same way Celox does. I always found hemostatic powder to be convenient. It can stop nuisance bleeding for people and animals, without making a big mess.


- Bullwolf

[MtGun44]

As far as how this bleeding stop stuff "help internal damage caused by a bullet traveling
through the body?" If you bleed out in the next 10 minutes, what difference does
the internal damage to a kidney or liver or intestine make?

First aid is about stopping you from being DEAD, SOON. First is airway, which will
kill you in a couple minutes, next is bleeding which can kill almost as fast. After getting
a good airway and stopping serious bleeding there is time to sort out the other stuff,
hopefully at a hospital. I keep several different airways, a chest wall seal/valve and
clotting agent in my med kit, along with a lot of other stuff, since we frequently are many
miles back in the woods in roadless areas and need to be able to stabilize an injured
person without being able to get any outside help for hours. Also, a doctor friend
has checked me out on stitching and explained the finer points of an emergency
tracheotomy.

As someone else said, like my CCW pistol, I sincerely hope to never need this
emergency gear but will not be without it in the wilderness.

As to the new Veti-Gel (a veterinary product at this time?), it sounds good, hope
it lives up to the hype and can be stored for long periods in a med kit, and cost
less than million bucks.

Bill

[Blacksmith]

Here is their web site:
http://www.suneris.co/vetigel/

Not for sale yet but available to Vets for evaluation.

[smokeywolf]

Bullwolf and MtGun44 have got it right. If you bleed out before you get to the hospital, clots are not an issue.

Have carried Celox in my kits for several years. Quik-Clot burns too much.

Also pack Israeli Battle dressings, combat ap. tourniquets, Chest Seal, Airway and Cric Kits, SAM Splints. Pretty much everything that's included in a Combat Casualty Response kit.

Be sure you know how to use everything you carry.

smokeywolf

[Love Life]

The others are spot on when it comes to combat/emergency medicine. Check breathing 1st. Once that is good then move to the bleeders. Arterial bleeding will leave a person dead in short order.

for gunshot wounds to the extremities a tourniquet was usually always employed followed by a pressure bandage. Quick-Clot was a last resort as we would rather control the bleeding with the tourniquet and slowly turn it into a pressure dressing over time if we had to. If a bird could come in or a vehicle medevac then we let the higher up doctors remove the tourniquets and do what they do so well.

For bomb blast injuries a tourniquet was always applied as high as possible to a wounded extremity. That SOP saved many lives.

On the grand scheme of things, a flesh wound to the muscle was usually considered routine or what we called walking wounded. Yeah, it sucks for them but they stayed with us until casevac was convenient.

Know the priorities when applying 1st aid and use the 1st aid kit/supplies of the person who requires aid if they have one.

[Mike in TX]

Speaking of Vet supplies, 50 years plus ago when we dehorned the cattle we used a clotting agent. Made those animals antsy and jumpy.

[xs11jack]

MTGun44, I was not being sarcastic or snotty in my post, all this blood clotting agent stuff is new to me and I wanted to learn about it.
Ole Jack

[Multigunner]

A clptting agent used in ancient times was simple spiders webs. They kept wads of clean spider web handy to pack in the wound.
I guess the same stuff that makes the web sticky promotes clotting, and the web gives the clot something to form around.

Don't know if it actually works but in a TV show back in the seventies they stopped the bleeding from a cut femoral artery by placing a can of corn under the tourniquet so when tightened the can mashed the artery tightly closed. Sounds like it would work, worth a try if nothing else will stop the bleeding. Anything cylindrical and of about that size should work as well, maybe a large flash light.

[MaryB]

Don't overlook having a good first aid manual on hand, I have a copy of this in my first aid kit http://www.amazon.com/Special-Operations-Forces-Medical-Handbook-ebook/dp/B005WKM66E/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1416720297&sr=8-11&keywords=first+aid+manual

[Lonegun1894]

The way I was taught is life over limb. Should you need my help in a trauma situation, I don't expect you to be happy with me at the time, my bedside manner is going to SUCK, but if there is anything I can do about it, you will be alive for us to discuss our differences later. I have used Quick-Clot among other things for gunshot, blast, and other injuries. I have used it on myself and on others, and no, it isn't any fun, but I am still here and so are the ones I helped. Since getting out, I have used pepper spray (constricts vessels) to the same effect. As you can imagine, it is less than pleasant, but I got a deep cut and needed to stop bleeding NOW. An improvised tourniquet and the spray stopped the bleeding. And as another poster above said, tampons and maxi-pads make great dressings. My glovebox has several, as does my duty bag, and my hunting pack, and... Y'all get the idea.

[Artful]

MTGun44, I was not being sarcastic or snotty in my post, all this blood clotting agent stuff is new to me and I wanted to learn about it.
Ole Jack

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antihemorrhagic
There are several classes of antihemorrhagic drugs used in medicine.
These include antifibrinolytics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifibrinolytics), blood coagulation factors, fibrinogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibrinogen), and vitamin K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_K).
Major trauma calls for a quick acting agent to keep blood loss to a minimum.

[StolzerandSons]

For people who are unfamiliar with clotting products such as Quick-clot or Celox, a little warning is in order. If you have an allergy to Shellfish/Seafoods these products are primarily Chitosan which is a polymer extracted from shrimp.

In my case I have a severe allergy to shellfish even small amounts of it have put me into anaphylactic shock.

I also have had problems with blood clots in my legs in the past and am now on a daily dose of 325mg of aspirin, so vitamin K derived clotting agents can also cause severe negative reactions.

I look forward to seeing more about veti-gel since it appears to be solely derived from plants and doesn't contain shellfish it would be a great product for people like me.

[MtGun44]

Ole Jack,

No offense taken whatsoever, just pointing out that the whole thing about first aid is prioritizing what
it takes to keep the patient alive NOW, and stuff that will kill you tomorrow can wait until we fix what
will kill you in 5 or 10 minutes, at least temporarily stabilize it, usually not really fixing it.

I've spent time with a combat medic friend and a Dr friend discussing what sort of skills and tools are
top priority, and verifying/establishing a stable airway is first, then stopping bleeding, with various
means depending on the injury. Finally, dealing with the "other stuff" like broken bones and such
is lower level. So your point was a really good one for the longer term, but until you fix the short
term, there may be no longer term to sweat.

Hope this stuff works out like they say, sounds pretty impressive.

Bill