Savage 16 Rebarrel. What short action caliber?

[davidheart]

I have a Savage 16 short action in 22-250 and I'd like to re-barrel it to a more substantial (but not overkill) cartridge. I'd like it to be my 'grab and go' gun for:

A) Somewhere I haven't hunted before so I don't know what shots are available (usually woods cover but also power lines and bean fields)
B) Deer season around here is also hog, black bear, and small game season
C) Target shooting at local 500-700 yard known distance events
D) Hunting a field for coyote where the shots are 350-700 yards
E) Decent barrel life (I heard the 243 for example is a huge barrel burner)
F) Deer size range from Southern to Northern Deer

I hope that helps narrow things down. I reload obviously so components should be available but as long as MidwayUSA is in business so am I. My question is if you could choose ANY short action cartridge to fit this bill what direction would you go in? I have my top picks in the poll but if you have another suggestion I'd appreciate the input.

Edit: This is from post #18:


...So I've been saving my pennies and I should have the money for the custom barrel in January. I'm going to choose between 260, 7-08, or 308. For the purposes of the custom barrel votes for the 284 will go to the 7-08 and votes for the 6.5-284 will go to the 260. Seeing how those two calibers seem to have feeding problems and brass for the three calibers are all easy enough to get a hold of or make from 308 brass. It seems funny to me not one person voted for 243 yet.

I've been debating about this so much that I think I'm going to look at the number of votes cast for 260, 7-08, or 308 when it's time and I'll choose that for my custom barrel. As it is the votes are so close I have no idea which one will come out on top and I'm ok with that. Votes for 'other' will be put into a three way randomizer and will be slotted to one of the three calibers. I did however put in my own vote. :D :D

[MT Gianni]

7mmx08 will get done what you want. 6.5x284 or 284 if you need a screamer, 308 if a majority of your shots will be with cast.

[davidheart]

....308 if a majority of your shots will be with cast.

For this rifle the majority of shots will be with j-words. I use my 30-30 as an exclusive cast gun and for woods hunting. I'm thinking I'll stick with medium velocity for caliber loads (accuracy first) unless I'm shooting definite bean fields and comp matches.

[rockrat]

I would go with the 284Win. Think of it as a 7mm-06. Only drawback is the case is bigger in diameter than the 308 family of cartridges, and it might affect feeding from the magazine. Now, if you want to change bolt heads and acquire the parts for a magnum magazine, then you open up the possibilities to 300 WSM, 7mm WSM, and even 6.5 rem mag (tought to find brass though)or one of the other short mags. Going to 700 yds kind of changes things.

[texassako]

I was going to go with .308 because of the all around usefulness, but a couple of your points(C&D) would benefit from using the .284.

[NoAngel]

.358 Winchester

[RickinTN]

I would go with the 284Win. Think of it as a 7mm-06. Only drawback is the case is bigger in diameter than the 308 family of cartridges, and it might affect feeding from the magazine. Now, if you want to change bolt heads and acquire the parts for a magnum magazine, then you open up the possibilities to 300 WSM, 7mm WSM, and even 6.5 rem mag (tought to find brass though)or one of the other short mags. Going to 700 yds kind of changes things.

284 Winchester is a great cartridge. I tried it first many years ago in a short action Remington 700. It did present feeding issues. I also found that when loading any bullets longer than the 130 grain Speer I had lots of bullet in the case proper. I then decided to try the 7-08 and found it to be a better cartridge for my needs. Brass is also much easier to find or make from .308 than is the .284 case. It feeds better than the 284 and uses less powder for almost the same velocities. If we were talking about a long action the comparison would be a different ballgame but in a short action I'll take the 7-08.
Rick

[davidheart]

284 Winchester is a great cartridge..... It did present feeding issues. I also found that when loading any bullets longer than the 130 grain Speer I had lots of bullet in the case proper......

Howdy Rick! Hadn't talked to you in a bit. :)

Well you know how much painstaking time I put into researching test loads and ballistics. I heard about the feeding issues for the 284. Do you think the 7mm-08AI would have feeding issues as well? I wonder if the options were only 7mm-08 or 308 which would have the most votes?

That's really what this thread boils down to.

(@NoAngel the .358 sounds rockin' but I'm probably not going to use it to 700 yards ;) )

[country gent]

I have used the 243 win for NRA High Power and Long Range with outstanding results. A barrel with 1-7 -1-8 twist allows the heavier vld style bullets with very high BC to be used. My from 200yds to 600 yds was 9 mins with the 105 jlks. Barrel life was around 2000-2500 rounds though. Best was 2500 rounds on a krieger blank 1-7 twist stainless steel. This was a tight necked chamber. The 260 remington is good but it can be finiky Ive been told, never used one. The 7mm 08 would allow use of some very high bc bullets and should be a real performer for your listed uses. The 6.5X284 is very impressive but again barrel life similar to 243. Very good bullets available for it. A friend used 6mm X 284 for long range He figured 1200 rounds to a barrel but it was flat. 284 is a good round and can be a real performer Brass can be tougher to find though. The old stand by 308 is a proven performer Use a good 1-10 - 1-12 twist barrel and 155-175 grn bullets its good to 1000yds or a little past. The Palma shooters have been proving this for many years. I would lean towards the 243 yself but I nevered worried about barrel life. The 308 or 7-08 would also give outstanding performance.

[nekshot]

7-08, less recoil and deader deer when pointed at them!

[davidheart]

.....243 win for NRA High Power and Long Range with outstanding results.....Barrel life was around 2000-2500 rounds though..........260 remington is good but it can be finiky....7mm 08 would allow use of some very high bc bullets and should be a real performer for your listed uses.....6.5X284 is very impressive but again barrel life .....6mm X 284 for long range He figured 1200 rounds to a barrel but it was flat. 284 brass can be tough to find....The old stand by 308 is a proven performer.....The Palma shooters have been proving this for many years.....308 or 7-08 would also give outstanding performance.

Very well put... which is exactly why I wanted to put it to a vote. It looks like the only thing the vote told me is what I already knew. It's between the 7mm-08 and 308 Win as I can see at this point they're neck and neck with each other.


7-08, less recoil and deader deer when pointed at them!

:D :D :D Such a good answer. :D :D :D

[country gent]

Another plus for the 308 is the availability of very accurate match grade ammo available when there just isnt time to load. Federal Gold medal, Black Hills, And Lake City M 852 or Special Ball to name a few. Ive shot alot of M842 in dcm cmp matches when ammo was issued on the line and it was very good accuracy wise. It something to keep in mind.

[nemesisenforcer]

308. Proven in every hunting condition and locale, plentiful ammo and components, very reasonable bore life, accurate, what more could you ask for?

[RickinTN]

Howdy Rick! Hadn't talked to you in a bit. :)

Well you know how much painstaking time I put into researching test loads and ballistics. I heard about the feeding issues for the 284. Do you think the 7mm-08AI would have feeding issues as well? I wonder if the options were only 7mm-08 or 308 which would have the most votes?

That's really what this thread boils down to.

(@NoAngel the .358 sounds rockin' but I'm probably not going to use it to 700 yards ;) )

It has been a while. How do the 30-30 bullets work? Now back to subject. I tried the AI thing too many years ago (257 Roberts AI) and it was a pretty neat concept but just didn't stick for me. I think I recall feeding issues with it as well. The 7-08 has done everything I've ever asked of it including a whitetail @425 yards. I've shot the 7-08 pretty extensively (308 also for that matter) and really enjoy the cartridge. I actually hunted with one this morning....with a round-nosed bullet...imagine that. The 7-08 and 308 are neck and neck as far as their performance but I like the 7-08 a little better because of slightly lower recoil and slightly flatter trajectory. I also like being just a little "different" than the main stream.
Good luck with your choice, and take care,
Rick

[Jupiter7]

i voted .260rem, easy to make brass. will do the job flatter than 30's & 7's. best options for long range accuracy without specialized brass. plenty of data from 6.5x55 and up and less recoil.

[Doc Highwall]

The 308 will let you use the same cast bullets that you use in your 30-30 if you wanted to. The 7mm-08 and 260 would be a little easier on the shoulder then the 308. As has been pointed out as the bore diameter goes down for a given case capacity the barrel life also goes down. My uncle went with the 7mm-08 due to less recoil than a 308 but also at the same time it has greater energy at 300 yards and beyond due to higher BC. bullets.


For my light recoiling target rifle I went with the 6mmXC for almost the same ballistics as the 243 but with longer barrel life due to a smaller case capacity.

[TXGunNut]

You've already kicked the .358 to the curb so I'll join the .308 chorus. OTOH I see the need to two rifles, a long-range rifle for varmints and targets and a .358 for serious meat-hunting. I can't advise you on the LR stuff, I only do it for amusement and I'm not any good at it.

[davidheart]

I really appreciate all of y'all's thoughtful input and all of y'all have great points. (especially nekshot's thorough, in-depth review of the 7-08)

This is a debate I've been having in my mind for a while. Our financial situation is such as I can't really justify owning multiple rifles which fulfill the same goal. I have a couple rifles, but they are all for different applications. 223 for coyote/hogs/intruders, 30-30 for short range/light(7lbs)/cast, 22lr for small game. The only rifle role I don't have is the one described above and the 22-250 barrel I currently have doesn't completely fit the bill. (unless you'd like to tell me otherwise) I think the 22-250 wouldn't be good on deer any further than 300 yards. At least I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting it on deer that far and I for sure don't feel comfortable shooting black bear with it.

The 358 win sounds fun but my 30-30 already fits that bill. Maybe one day I'll have one. ;)

So I've been saving my pennies and I should have the money for the custom barrel in January. I'm going to choose between 260, 7-08, or 308. For the purposes of the custom barrel votes for the 284 will go to the 7-08 and votes for the 6.5-284 will go to the 260. Seeing how those two calibers seem to have feeding problems and brass for the three calibers are all easy enough to get a hold of or make from 308 brass. It seems funny to me not one person voted for 243 yet.

I've been debating about this so much that I think I'm just going to look at the number of votes cast for 260, 7-08, or 308 when it's time and I'll choose that for my custom barrel. As it is the votes are so close I have no idea which one will come out on top and I'm ok with that. Votes for 'other' will be put into a three way randomizer and will be slotted to one of the three calibers. I did however put in my own vote. :)

[Doc Highwall]

The 308Win. case @ 2.015" is shorter then the 243Win. @ 2.045", or the 260Rem./ 7mm-08Rem. @ 2.035" each. This will give you a gap at the case mouth which is not good for either cast bullets or jacketed for best accuracy.

[davidheart]

The 308Win. case @ 2.015" is shorter then the 243Win. @ 2.045", or the 260Rem./ 7mm-08Rem. @ 2.035" each. This will give you a gap at the case mouth which is not good for either cast bullets or jacketed for best accuracy.

I think you're saying this in reference to forming brass from 308win.... I would imagine the act of necking down 308 actually lengthens the brass...?

I honestly would only do it in a pinch but I'll purchase brass with proper headstamps.

[Doc Highwall]

davidheart, yes you are correct, I meant forming cases from the 308.

[karlrudin]

My vote was for 7-08. And since this all boils down to 7-08 vs. 308 I will chime in. 1st, I own both, shoot, and load for both. Both of these are great calibers and i'm not going to knock on either. 2nd, I only use 308 brass for both of them. I neck down for 7-08. Then trim to 308 case length. That way I only have one trim length for both calibers. IT DOES NOT LENGTHEN THE NECK WHEN NECKING DOWN. It keeps the necks just under the trim length of 308. It does shorten the neck for a 7-08, but I have seen no signs of being less accurate than a factory 7-08 case. BUT YOU MUST TURN THE NECKS BECAUSE THEY DO GET THICKER. I have got great, small groups with each. I also killed my first deer with a 308. 1 shot in a 200 lb doe dropped her like a sack of potatoes. This was using a non-premium bullet and before casting. Then I built my 7-08 on the education of the better ballistics of 7mm and the lesser recoil. Ballistics is math and so is felt recoil. Math don't lie. I would use my cast bullets in my reloads to take a shot on anything up to elk. My 308 can do the same thing but would hit me a lot harder. I'm to old for recoil, along with medical problems that don't like recoil. But either 1 I shoot with my reloads will make most animals around me stop where they are at, just one with less recoil. ps, i'm one of those unsporting hunters who 3rd eye my game. Don't like chasing a blood trail when I don't have to. Besides, i'm not going to eat the antlers.

[Gofaaast]

257 Roberts in a Pre 64 Model 70

[starmac]

257 Roberts in a Pre 64 Model 70

Not sure what this has to do with a savage 16.

[Doc Highwall]

I have a 1885 Browning Low Wall in 260 Remington that I bought due to it having less recoil and also that it is light and easy to carry. When the weather turns nasty and I don't want to take the Low Wall out I made a Encore up with a 16-1/8" barrel that has a Choat stock with a collapsible Magpul butt stock chambered in 6.5mmBR. topped off with a Nikon 1.5-6X42mm scope.

Recoil is nothing when you are young, but when you get older and wiser you come to the realization that shot placement with a properly constructed bullet is more deadly.

[davidheart]

257 Roberts in a Pre 64 Model 70

Not sure what this has to do with a savage 16.

We'll give him a break. It's his first post. ;)


I have a 1885 Browning Low Wall in 260 Remington that I bought due to it having less recoil and also that it is light and easy to carry. When the weather turns nasty and I don't want to take the Low Wall out I made a Encore up with a 16-1/8" barrel that has a Choate stock with a collapsible Magpul butt stock chambered in 6.5mmBR. topped off with a Nikon 1.5-6X42mm scope.

Recoil is nothing when you are young, but when you get older and wiser you come to the realization that shot placement with a properly constructed bullet is more deadly.

We may require a picture of that Encore side-by-side with your Low Wall.... seems like almost complete opposite styles of each other! And fyi I don't like recoil as much as the next guy... or even slightly less than the next guy. Thankfully I haven't developed a flinch!

I just don't like to be punished when I pull the trigger.

I shot a buddies wife's .308 the other day alongside a 7mm-08 and I could barely tell the difference in recoil. The 7-08 felt a little... snappier? And the 308 felt more like a thud. Kind of the difference between shooting a 9mm and a 45acp. I've never shot a .260

The 7-08 was a Savage 110E with a wood stock and hard buttpad which was sold to somebody else and the .308 was a Remington 700(?) with a light synthetic stock and very thick cushy pad. I'm sure the pad made quite a bit of difference...

I'm really watching the votes here. They're seriously neck and neck! I told my wife about this thread and she just rolled her eyes. :D

I'm honestly good with any of the three but I would prefer to end up with a .260 or 7-08. If this thread was made 70 years ago it'd be "7x57, 6.5x55, or 30-06??"

[Wayne Smith]

I'm on the 7mm side of the debate. You would have to check and see how much the AI would give you and if it is worth the cost of the dies. Some cartridges it is only a grain or two of water and thus not worth it, others it makes a big difference. I don't think there is much to add to the .308 and question if the AI would be worth it.

[oldlincoln]

I'll vote for the 260. Recoil is low and there are a good selection of hunting bullets. The 260 will serve well at 500 yd+. With a 1:9 barrel everything up to the 123s will stabilize well and if you get a 1:8 you can shoot them cruise missiles too.

[davidheart]

I just thought of something last night in regards to the .260 vs 7-08.... Isn't the ideal weight in 7-08 140gr? I heard somebody say you shouldn't shoot heavier than 140gr j-words in a 7-08 or you'll end up with depreciating values. Something to the effect of 154gr-162gr has high BC but low velocity which ends up equaling less ft-lb than using 139gr j-words with a higher velocity. So at range the .260 with a 140gr still beats out a 7-08 with a 140gr.....

So if I'm "supposed" to be shooting 140gr in a 7-08 then why not shoot a 140gr in .260? I hope this makes sense what I'm asking here.

Edit: I found where I read this. It was at AR-15.com and the post is below.

------

I'll have to disagree with the trend here as I prefer heavier bullets in the 7mm-08 for two reasons:

First:

Most cartridges have a sweet spot in terms of bullet weight, velocity and ballistic coefficient. The .284 caliber is well known for excellent BCs and the 7mm-08's sweet spot is in the upper end of the weight range. Consequently, saddling the 7mm-08 with a light bullet to get "flat shooting" is counterproductive. For example you can load:

1) 100 gr. HP at 3,300 fps in the 7mm-08. Zeroed for 314 yards it will give you a 365 yard point blank range, assuming a 10" diameter vital zone (+/- 5" from the line of sight) and at 350 yards it will have 2150 fps remaining velocity and deliver 1025 ft pounds of energy. At 400 yards it will be 9.5" low and at 450 yards it will be 18" low.

2) 120 gr SP at 3,000 fps. Zeroed for 299 yards it will give you a 349 yard point blank range, and at 350 yards it will have 2,119 fps remaining velocity and deliver 1,193 ft pounds of energy. At 400 yards it will be 12" low and at 450 yards it will be 21" low.

3) 139 gr BTSP at 2,900 fps. Zeroed for 301 yards it will give you a 351 yard point blank range, and at 350 yards it will have 2,215 fps remaining velocity and deliver 1,511 ft pounds of energy. At 400 yards it will be 11" low and at 450 yards it will be 20" low.

Let's pause here a minute and compare the 120 gr bullet with the 139 gr bullet. The 139 gr bullet is 100 fps slower at the muzzle, but has 100 fps more velocity at 350 yards, has an essentially identical point blank range, is an inch flatter shooting at 400 yards and 450 yards, and has nearly 320 ft pounds more energy.

4) 154 gr SST at 2,800 fps. Zeroed for 294 yards it will give you a 345 yard point blank range, and at 350 yards it will have 2,225 fps remaining velocity and deliver 1,680 ft pounds of energy. At 400 yards it will be 12" low and at 450 yards it will be 21" low.

Again comparing this to the 120 gr bullet, the 154 gr bullet is 200 fps slower at the muzzle, but has 110 fps more velocity at 350 yards, has an essentially identical point blank range, shoots just as flat at 400 yards and 450 yards, and has nearly 487 ft pounds more energy.

5) 162 gr SST at 2,700 fps. Zeroed for 285 yards it will give you a 335 yard point blank range, and at 350 yards it will have 2,154 fps remaining velocity and deliver 1,701 ft pounds of energy. At 400 yards it will be 14" low and at 450 yards it will be 23" low.

Finally, we've reached the point where we've perhaps went a bit too far and are losing point blank range and trajectory, however we are still retaining more long range energy, so if I'm hunting something large, this may still be the better choice.

6) 175 gr SP at 2,600 fps. Zeroed for 270 yards it will give you a 317 yard point blank range, and at 350 yards it will have 1,972 fps remaining velocity and deliver 1,510 ft pounds of energy. At 400 yards it will be 18" low and at 450 yards it will be 29" low.

Now, we are well past the point of diminishing returns and are losing ground in trajectory, velocity and retained energy.

Consequently, it's obvious looking at the data that the better BCs and heavier weights of the 139 gr and 154 gr bullets makes them better choices for long range hunting than a 120 gr bullet from the perspectives of both trajectory and retained velocity and energy, and even the 162 gr bullet gives up little in terms of trajectory but offers more energy and even better sectional density and penetration.

Second:

I've noted on smaller deer and antelope that getting hit with a high velocity 7mm at short range tends to tear things up more than a heavy bullet at more moderate velocity at the same short range. So unless you like threading the lungs back through the exit wound, a heavy bullet is just as effective. Plus if bullet placement is not perfect, a heavier slower bullet will tend to damage slightly less meat.

At long range, the better velocity, energy and penetration of the heavier bullets make them better performers. Related to this, I also have a lot more confidence in the ability of a long heavy bullet penetrating to the vitals from a rear quarter shot than a lighter bullet. In this final case energy is less important than momentum, but the heavier bullets have more of both.

It's worth nothing here that this largely holds true for any 7mm cartridge - the difference is just how heavy you can go before you reach the point of diminishing returns. The 7mm Mauser has numbers similar to the 7mm-08, in the .280/7mm Express the ideal is in the 154 and 162 grain range, while the 7mm Rem Mag will shine in the 162 and 175 grain range.

----

Source: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=386014

[Doc Highwall]

I load 162 grain Hornady bullets in the 7mm08, and 190 grain Hornady bullets in my 30/06.

[davidheart]

I load 162 grain Hornady bullets in the 7mm08, and 190 grain Hornady bullets in my 30/06.

I'm thinking I'd do the same. 154gr or 162gr 7mm bullets in 7-08. The other plus to 7mm is it seems to be regularly carried on the reloading shelves around here. Right next to 6mm, 22 and 30 caliber. 6.5 is slim to come by from what I've seen. I wonder what some of these shop owners think when they put in these orders because one guy has about 40 boxes of 6mm Remington Soft Point collecting dust on his shelf now for almost the past year. He's charging $38 a box. :veryconfu

[Three44s]

I voted for the .260 as I believe it better fits a dual purpose round that you seek.

You are right that component-wise the "7's" are going to be more flush ....... it just means that as to 6.5 availability .... you'll have to scratch a bit deeper and sooner ...... better planning.

You can think of the .260 as a modernized 6.5 swede for your circumstances. Better BC's and better penetration with the heavier slugs. On the light side if your twist you chose is not too tight ..... there are lighter varmint bullets available than the sevens have.

Now, I am a fan of the 7mm class ..... don't get me wrong ...... I have a stash of them ...... more in the magnum genre but when you throw the dual role in the mix ........ the 6.5 mm comes to mind and that's where my mad money for Savage barrels has been going lately.

I am a varmint/predator hunter too but my issue is having a calling rifle for coyotes that can stop a MAD BEAR if he won't get a clue and run off. We are getting blessed with more and more apex predators here lately. My dual purpose is different. I may need more gun without asking for it.

Best regards and good shooting

Three 44s

[Doc Highwall]

I should have mentioned that I load 140 grain bullets in my .260 Remington.

If you compare the sectional densities of bullets in different calibers it will give you a good idea as to their use. My 140 grain 6.5mm/.264" bullet has a S.D. of .287, my 162 grain 7mm/.284" bullet has a S.D. of .287, and my 190 grain .308".30 cal. has a S.D. of .286 all made for large game.

[karlrudin]

I'm thinking I'd do the same. 154gr or 162gr 7mm bullets in 7-08. The other plus to 7mm is it seems to be regularly carried on the reloading shelves around here. Right next to 6mm, 22 and 30 caliber. 6.5 is slim to come by from what I've seen. I wonder what some of these shop owners think when they put in these orders because one guy has about 40 boxes of 6mm Remington Soft Point collecting dust on his shelf now for almost the past year. He's charging $38 a box. :veryconfu

Yeah, just like those 2 boxes of 45-70 that I bought off the shelf that cost me $50 a box! Ridiculous.

[rintinglen]

In the past, I've been a "whatever-floats-your-boat" kind of guy when it comes to guns. But the component droughts of 2008-09 and the current one have made me reconsider.
I voted 308 because of the component and ammunition availability. Plus, it will do everything you ask, and a few things better. Oh a 7mm-08 is pretty much a one for one equivalent, and might be my second choice, but despite the encouraging words above, 7-08 brass and ammo is not all that thick on the ground and the 308 is much more readily available. While I can and have converted brass in days past--much of my 250 brass is headstamped .243--It is a labor that I would cheerfully dispense with, all else being even-stephens.
The 284 case and its shrunken off-spring are non-starters. The increased head diameter is likely to cause difficulties with the magazine and I view those rebated rims with a jaundiced eye. as I under stand it, this is a tight money project. Consequently, I would look for proven compatability. Then too, availability is an issue. In 40 years of brass scrounging, I don't ever recall seeing a .284 case. And that is not one easily made from some other common case.

The .243 is the other choice that merits consideration. Out to 200 yards, I think it'll do anything you wished for in your list. Recoil is mild, availability of ammo and components is excellent. And they are renowned for their accuracy. The only drawback in my view is that they are basically the same as the 22-250 you are replacing. A fast twist 22-250 will allow the use of heavy-end hunting .24 bullets that more or less equal those coming out of the 243, and recoil will be milder yet.

Were availability not a consideration, I'd go with a 260. Lower recoil than the 7mm-08 or 308, excellent accuracy, better long range capability than the .243, I just plain like the cartridge. The only one that I have fired is a Remington Model 7 stainless belonging to my friend Dave. That gun, despite its slender barrel and light weight shoots great!
That brings us back to the .308. Widely available, refined to the point where accuracy is renowned, components are easy and cheap to come by. It will shoot heavier bullets than any of the lighter calibers, which may be an issue, should you someday find yourself fly-fishing in grizzly country. Any ballistic difference between it and the 7mm-08 is more philosophical than actual. Projectiles of similar design will perform similarly at least out to 500 yards. It may lack the "Wow" factor or the "something different" appeal, but I think it meets the requirements that you laid out better than any of the other choices.

Honesty, however, compels me to state that I'd make that Savage into a .250 Savage. After all, it's in the name.

[davidheart]

I really appreciate y'alls input. Every one of you make genuine, good points. I honestly lean toward one of the three calibers but I've debated so much that it's just going to be easier to let y'all help me decide. I think I'll be happy with whichever of the three I go with in the end after the voting is done....

[starmac]

Out of your list I voted 308. It is kind of boring, but sensible, proven, components are numerous and available anywhere, and practicaly anytime.

[davidheart]

I love that absolutely nobody has voted for the .243 At least I know what I WON'T be buying!

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Doc Highwall]

The 243 is a great cartridge, but it has a shorter barrel life than larger calibers of the same case capacity.

The same thing goes for a cartridge like the 25-06 vs. 280 Rem, 270 Win and the 30/06.

[Three44s]

I also like the .243 a LOT!

The reason I don't support it for general dual purpose ....... even though most folks view it that way ...... is that the bullets it can fire are .... in my opinion ...... just not heavy enough for medium big game. Many people hunt with it ........... and that's fine ........ but you won't count me in that number.

Barrel life in and of itself for me ...... unless it's rudely short ....... and the .243 is not that harsh ...... is not a reason to not go with a particular cartridge. The reason I feel that way is that precious few shooters actually shoot their guns THAT much. Some do and for those folks ........ I'd say competitive shooters for one ...... do have to look carefully at that measure.

Any out and out hunter that washes out a barrel with round life of say 1200 rounds (varmint hunters exempted) ....... is probably not going to shun a barrel change ....... they are probably more consumed with just how much game that tube delivered.

And when it comes right down to it ......... the advent of more and better bore scopes has taught us that many a "shot out" barrel just needs some real serious cleaning. I wish these tools were more inexpensive.

Best regards

Three 44s

[davidheart]

The reason I don't support it for general dual purpose ....... even though most folks view it that way ...... ...........Any out and out hunter that washes out a barrel with round life of say 1200 rounds (varmint hunters exempted) ....... is probably not going to shun a barrel change ....... they are probably more consumed with just how much game that tube delivered.

Yep, I didn't think the .243 was a good general "dual purpose" caliber. It's kind of good to see none of y'all see it that way either.

I am one of those guys who shoots a good 500-800 rounds per year per rifle. Although it would take me longer to reach 3000 rounds. I just don't want to have to replace this barrel in 2 years. I'd rather wait a good 5-10 years before having to do so.

Although "just how much game that tube delivered" is a VERY good way of looking at things. I'll need to always keep that in mind.

[flounderman]

I have about every caliber except 7-08. I have most of the 6.5 wildcats. The last few years I have used a short barreled 260. Before that I used a 243. I killed a lot of deer with the 243, some a long ways away, and I even tried shooting 243s in the 260. That didn't work very well. Had two boxes the same color and got the wrong box. The 260 is for my money the best balanced caliber there is. It has flat trajectory, low recoil for the power, availability of brass if you make it, wide selection of bullets, good barrel life, it doesn't destroy a lot of meat with the right bullet, doesn't burn any more powder than a 243. I form my brass by opening up 243 brass.

[davidheart]

I have about every caliber except 7-08. I have most of the 6.5 wildcats. The last few years I have used a short barreled 260.......


What's the length of your barrel and your usual load? Bullet/Powder/Velocity?

[waltherboy4040]

6.5x284 Norma or 6mm

[UBER7MM]

David,

Of your selection, The 284 Win, 6x284 and 6.5x284 will be hard to find brass for. They do have a cool factor and will cause chats at the gun range and hunting lodge. They are also the most powder you'll ever get into a short action rifle that has a standard .473" bolt face. The 284 is on par with the 280 Remington, ballistic wise. There's also a 30x284 that's similar on paper to the 30'06.

The 308 Win will be the easiest brass to find and loaded ammo. It's a good overall choice. Shooting surplus NATO cartridges is also an option.

The 7'08 Rem is a nicely balanced cartridge, IMHO. I'm not certain of any advantage of the 7'08 AI over the 284 Win. I haven't much experience with the 243 Win, 260 Rem, 338 Federal or the 358 Win. They are all (including 7'08) of course, necked down or blown out wildcats (now standardized) based on the 308 Win. I've read lots of positive deer hunting posts with the cast 35 caliber slug and a 1:14" twist barrel. You might look into that.

I think for coyote hunting, you should keep the 22-250 barrel. Get a 22-250 go gauge and the correct wrench so you can swap it back with the other barrel you purchase as needed. However, you might need to have the magazine/action rails modified to get one of these wider shouldered cartridges, (especially the rebated case cartridges) to work reliably in your relatively tapered 22-250 case designed action. This is a problem with 7x57 and 8x57 Mausers converted to 7.62 CETME or 7.62 NATO.

Should be a fun project. Enjoy!

[davidheart]

Definitely appreciate the input. I always intended to keep the 22-250 barrel because it's a pretty popular caliber in this area. I like the idea of changing calibers without needing to upgrade the trigger, bed the action, and buy a new stock every time. This rifle has the Boyds thumbhole stock in pepper... and it's perfectly bedded to the action. It also has the accutrigger pull which I like.

I spoke with Shilen. From the time I order to receipt it will take about 2-6 months depending on which caliber we end up going with. It'll work out perfectly because my rifle barrel will arrive in time for the next deer season to start.

[Lloyd Smale]

nothing more versatile in a short action then the good old 308

[dkf]

6.5 Creedmoor

[rmcc]

257 Roberts

[izzyjoe]

My vote is for the 7-08, it's basically a warmed over 7x57, and with a fast twist to handle longer heavier bullets it will do anything you ask it to! Of course the 308 is a wise chose also.

[butch2570]

Out of your list I voted 308. It is kind of boring, but sensible, proven, components are numerous and available anywhere, and practicaly anytime.This is my feelings also...308 all the way

[Lloyd Smale]

yup why settle for a necked down less powerful version when you can have the real thing. Only thing that would change my opinion is if I already had two or three 308s. I cant think of a commercial round other then the short mags that do anything the good old 308 doesn't do as good or better.
This is my feelings also...308 all the way

[davidheart]

I like it when people say "The Good Old 308" It's been around for 50 years and they call it the Good Old 308. Long distance shooters have found it lacking for 1000 yard comps ever since it was created (as in, there are better choices), it's bullet has a low ballistic coefficient for past 300 yards, gut shot deer don't know the difference and the 6.5 Swede (1891), 30-30 (1895), 45-70 (1873), 7x57 (1893), and even the 22 long rifle (1887) have all taken more game than the 308 just as humanely and been around much longer. The 30-06 was designed in 1906 and is the worldwide accepted standard in a modern long action.

All of those calibers are well over twice the age of the 308. I'm sorry, but the 308 is a modern cartridge. I don't really think it's earned the status of "Good 'ol 308" yet. Not for another 50 years. :)

It's still a viable option for my purposes though.

[Lloyd Smale]

well its old compared to the rest of the rounds discussed here, as to being lacking at long range? I don't know, the military snipers have used it since the Korean war and still use it. Bullets? Theres more 30 cal match bullets made then all other calibers combined so finding a good long range 308 bullet is a cake walk. Yup theres better rounds for 1000yard shooting but most all of them are long action rounds and most are specialty rounds that aren't chambered in hunting guns so they don't apply here. I don't normaly gut shoot deer so I cant comment on that statement;) and I too am a fan of the "good old 06" but it doesn't fit in a long action. Unless your talking wildcat rounds I cant see anything in a short action with maybe the exception of the "almost obsolete" 284win that does anything any better then the 308 when it comes to hunting big game. Yup its newer then the o6, kind of a younger brother. The 22 has taken more game humanely? I wont even bother addressing that one. 6.5 swede and the 757 are normaly long action rounds too so aren't on topic here either. Only older short action round that's a hunting round that were put in bolt guns that even comes to mind is the 250 sav or 300 sav

[Artful]

I voted 308 - I have a swap barrel - I have barrels in 22-250, 243, 308, 30'06 (still need 358)
but you have short action and .30'06 is out then - 308 is very viable at 1000 yards with the right load and shooter. I have a 243 and use it out to 1000 for paper - but 308 is easy to find ammo,components and molds for, so it got my vote.

[TheCelt]

.338-08 (.338 Federal) You can load it for anything from varmints to moose and anything in between. Won't beat up your wallet or your shoulder either.