Mausers?

[pumpguy]

Alright guys, here's the deal. I am NOT a military gun guy. I really know nothing about them. The thing is, I have a chance to buy some at a really good price. One of them has me baffled. It does not have any manufactures markings. It is a bolt gun with a strange ring on the back of the bolt that you can pull or push as a safety. It has a "peg" on the side that you can rack the bolt with. I can't remember what caliber it is. He calls it a Mauser, but, I don't think it is. He also thought it was used by the French. Poor description, I know, but, any ideas what it is?

Also, when looking at Chilean and Argerntinian Mausers, what do I need to look for? One of them that he has has matching numbers on the receiver, bolt, stock etc. Is this important?

[dmftoy1]

Do you have to lift the bolt to rack it or can you pull straight back on the ring? If you can pull straight back on the ring then I think it's a swiss K31.

If the safety is a lever on the left side with a "ring" on the top and you push it forward/back to turn it on/off then you might have a Lee Enfield No. 4 MK1 or No 4. MKII

[NVcurmudgeon]

The description of the rifle with the "strange ring" could be a bit more complete, but it sounds like a Swiss Schmidt-Rubin rifle. These were made in various models between 1889 and 1957. They are all beautifully made. The later models (1911 and 1931) are more desireable as shooters because of better strength. The cartridge is the 7.5 X 55 Swiss, about a ballistic twin of our .308. These rifles are famous for accuracy. If the "peg" on the bolt only moves back and forth, but not up and down like most bolt actions, it is a straight-pull action. The bolt itself works like a Yankee ratcheting screwdriver. These are all characteristics of Schmidt-Rubin rifles. The receiver ring should have a square cross symbol (think Red Cross) and be marked "Waffenfabrik Bern."

[Hip's Ax]

Chilean's need to have a sharp crest on the forward ring (I'm assuming this is an 1895 small ring in 7mm), all numbers need to match. Everything has a number on it, I think.

Argentine 1909 large ring in 7.65 should have an in the white receiver or its a rebuilt. Again all matching numbers.

Condition, condition condition. Not only the outside but the bore and the head space as well if you plan on shooting it.

I paid $335 for my 1895 Chilean long rifle in fine to excellent all matching about 5 years ago.

I paid $450 for my very good + Argie long rifle model 1909 about 2 years ago.

More information on the rifles you are looking at would help a lot. Pictures are best.

[C A Plater]

If it's a Swiss, then it looks like this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bf/K31swissrifle.JPG/800px-K31swissrifle.JPG

[725]

Sounds like c a plater nailed it for you. It's an ugly duckling of a gun but if you ever get a chance to shoot one, you'll be delighted. Everything you would expect from Swiss enginering. The Swiss never used corrosive ammo. The civilian homeguard/army did regular training with them and were required to maintain them in tip top shape. The only regular fault ever mentioned about them comes from the way they were carried in special field back packs which put them too close to the ice axe/climbing axe they also carried. Scratched the stocks. Don't pass up a chance to add one to your collection. They are a joy to shoot.

[pumpguy]

Thanks guys. I think it is the one CA pictured. What are these worth in good condition?

What do you mean by large ring and small ring? Unfortunately, one of the Mausers has had its military stock sporterized. The old boy shot several elk with it and said it is a hell of a shooter. I think it is a 7x57. God, I really don't know about these guns! I think they would be fun to learn about, though.

I looked up the Swiss. I think that's the one. It does have that Yankee screwdriver look.

[garandsrus]

Pumpguy,

K-31's go for about $150-250 currently, depending on condition and whether their stock is walnut (+) or birch (-). A year or two ago, they were on the lower end of $150, sometimes around $100.

The GP-11 7.5x55 Swedish ammo is also very good. Many folks think it is probably the best surplus available. Current prices for GP-11 is around 50 cents/round. The cases are Berdan primed. Boxer primed brass is available.

The 7.5 caliber is basically a .30 caliber, so you can probably use any .30 caliber molds you have.

John

[Buckshot]

................Pull the bolts on'em and run a patch down the barrel. If they shine and have good strong lands I'd say go for any he'll turn loose of or that you can afford. Most of these were pre- WW1 manufacture with a quality and level of craftsmanship unseen today except in full custom offerings. The wood was of exceedingly high quality and it looks like it grew around the metalwork.

................Buckshot

[725]

pumpguy,
Large ring, small ring refers to the end of the receiver the barrel screws into. K-98's are large ring, meaning the female threaded area of the receiver is of the larger of the two sizes. Some Mausers are of a smaller size in that portion of the receiver. There have been gazillions of Mausers made over the years and there must be a quick source somewhere to give you the actual dimensions to differentiate between the two. Both are good, all things being equal. Different tools for different tasks. I might be mistaken (I frequently am), but it seems to me that old military Mausers in 7x57 were of the small ring type. I would also bet that 7x57's were made in both large and small ring configurations depending on the era/manufacturer. FWIW, 725

[scrapcan]

a place to start would be www.surplusrifle.com

It is not the most copmlete reference but will get a beginner going in short order. Also a good bit of info fo rthe mroe advanced (which I am not).

I agree with Buckshot, they are not getting cheaper or easier to find.

[725]

pumpguy,
If you do end up with a K-31, you might pull the butt plate off and see if there is a soldier's card stored under there. It was the custom for the soldier who was issued the arm to put a card with his hometown, name, and assignment under there. Some are missing today, but many have this information as some current owners are unaware of the practice. If you like such things, some collectors end up contacting the original issue soldier, exchanging correspondence / photos, etc. Sometimes it's a very interesting endeavor. Adds value and appreciation to the piece.
725

[725]

pumpguy,
Also of possible interest:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/old_mausers.htm

725

[C A Plater]

Having two of the Swiss rifles all I can say is how nice they are. They are so well made and are a pleasure to shoot. They used to go for around $150 but I have not seen one in quite a while that was less than $225 and the last one at $299. In addition to the surplus, you can get boxer primed brass from Grafs made by Privi and loaded rounds under the Wolf Gold label.

[pumpguy]

Well, I think I'm going to get the K31. I can buy it VERY reasonably, so if it doesn't suit me, I am not out much.

Next question. How can you date these? I would never hot rod this gun, so I'm sure it is plenty strong. I would like to know how old it is, though.

CA. That is interesting to know about the paper under the butt plate. I will definitely check that.

As far as the other guns he has, I will try to put up a list of what he has before I leave town this week. I will be staying at a hotel that doesn't have internet access. It's too hard to surf this site on my Blackberry. He does have several Mausers, Enfields and a few I'm going to need help with!!

[yarro]

They ones that I have shot, shot very well. I do not think that the design is as strong as a mauser so you would definately not want to hot rod it.

-Yarro

[waksupi]

The K31's were tested, and found to be as strong as a 98 Mauser, or stronger. After studying the lug lock up, I can believe it.

[Shepherd2]

Pumpguy

To find the date of a Swiss rifle go to www.swissrifles.com. Click on K31 and there you can get the year of manufacture from the serial number. This is a very good site with a wealth of information about Swiss rifles.

Hope you can buy the K31. They really are built like a Swiss watch.

[jack19512]

They used to go for around $150 but I have not seen one in quite a while that was less than $225 and the last one at $299.





http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=213



I have two of the K31's. A beech stock and a walnut stock. They are great rifles. To me one of the best buys are the Yugo 24/47's in 8 mm.

[C A Plater]

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=213


If you check them now you will see the web site (http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=613) returns
SOLD OUT AND DISCONTINUED. Backorders are not being accepted. 12/10/07

The supply is drying up so don't pass up a good deal if you find one. It may not be around again.

[Freightman]

If you check them now you will see the web site (http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=613) returns
SOLD OUT AND DISCONTINUED. Backorders are not being accepted. 12/10/07

The supply is drying up so don't pass up a good deal if you find one. It may not be around again.
I think the word is "Has Dried up" Think about it Mausers especialy German, Turk, Yugo, are no longer available, SKS's gone, Mexican Mausers on and on they are gone never to return.
I remember $30 '03's $20 M1 carbines, $40 Garands $10 Krags. Where has all of them gone? If you can aford them the return on them will be better than a IRA or 401K, wish I had done without some other things and baught 03's,M1 carbines, and Garands.

[jack19512]

If you check them now you will see the web site (http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=613) returns
SOLD OUT AND DISCONTINUED. Backorders are not being accepted. 12/10/07

The supply is drying up so don't pass up a good deal if you find one. It may not be around again.






I guess this proves a good thing won't last forever. The same thing will probably happen to the Yugo 24/47's which I think are a really good buy.

[jack19512]

Checked the two suppliers I deal with most and here is the only Yugo 24/47 Mauser's left that I know of. They use to have two grades, now only showing one. They are showing to have them in stock but for how long?

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=611

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/E463C4A2116F340/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/78B412785D7FB08/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/172DA1814FFC656/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/9ADFD0AF6A0FB91/standard.jpg

These 4 pages are from a 1992 CAI catalog I have. I had an 01 FFL from 1982 until 2001, and I managed to save quite a few of the catalogs along with a bunch of old Shotgun New's and Gunlists.

Just 3 examples of what happened in that short time. You could buy M96 Swedes for $59 by the boxcar load. Matching clean ones now fetch $325 or more. M38 Swedes were $79 and command $100 more then the M96's. The Ag42B's were $169 and that included a tool roll. Good clean ones now run from $600 to $750.

.................Buckshot