22 hornet load/cb questions

[hornsurgeon]

i recently picked up a handi rifle in 22 hornet for the kids to plink with. i would like a low velocity quiet load. what mold would you suggest for this? what powder? i have trail boss, unique, and lilgun. i was thinking of a 45-55 grain flatnose going 600-800 fps. also, as i am new to casting, lee liquid alox or pan lube with felix?

[35remington]

The Lyman 225438. Short bullet that will stabilize at low velocities. The longer 225415 and heavier bullets of the same or similar length will not stabilize below 1000 fps with the twist you have in your Hornet. In other words, forget the 55 grainers. The 225438 weighs around 42-44 grains depending upon what alloy it's cast from. It's a RN, but that won't matter for plinking.

From a rifle length barrel you might want to figure 800 fps as your bottom end, and there is nothing wrong with duplicating long rifle velocities as there is no recoil and noise is low. For tiny charges needed with these velocities you may want to go with Bullseye, starting around 2.0 grains and working from there. Lilgun is too slow in burn rate for the very light loads. Trail boss would be okay, but it's pricier to use than Bullseye. You may start around 2.0 grains with that, too.

The larger flake powders such as Unique, 700X and others do not work well out of many powder measures in low charge weights. Some measures actually have powder bridge in the charge cavity and throw light charges when it gets too small in diameter. Bullseye meters very well. I mention the measure because you won't want to weigh every charge - too time consuming for plinking loads. I have not tried Trailboss through a measure in two grain doses. Since its granule size is large it may have the same problem as the flake powders, but this may be offset by the great bulk of Trail boss needing a larger cavity in the first place and thus avoiding the problem.

These loads may not extract the most accuracy out of your gun but they will be accurate enough to be very usable.

These light loads need little lubricant at the slow velocities. I would just tumble lube with something ordinary and adequate like LLA. Pan lubing is a bit slow for volume production of plinking loads.

It seems a waste to have a gas check on the bullet, which is not needed at these speeds, except for the fact that many rifles do not shoot a gascheck bullet well if the gascheck is left off. You can try it and see what happens. If it doesn't shoot without them, then the gascheck alone will go for about 2-2.5 cents per bullet.

Plainbase .22 moulds are hard to find these days.

[hornsurgeon]

thanks for the info. i was leaning twards the 45 grainers myself and would be casting from ww with about 2% tin added. the only reason i mentioned pan lubing is because i am looking to cast also for my 375x284 and i could lube both while i was setup. i have a mold i made myself from a doit jig mold and a makeshift sprue plate that makes a 47 grain soupcan. i made the cherry from a modified drill bit. it does 1" within 50 yards, but groups fall apart after that.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Hornsurgeon: Amen to what 35Remington said. I have a Ruger #3 in Hornet and the 225438 is in deed the way to go.

Some newer Hornets such as the Ruger M77 in Hornet have a faster 1:14 twist instead of the old traditional 1:16 twist. The 1:14 just might stabilize the 55 gr 225415. I can tell you my 1:16 twist will only get it marginally stable at over 2100 fps.

Also, after you try 225438 with 2.0 gr Bullseye you might go up to 3.0 gr and get about 1300 fps and more precision. I do shoot 3.0 grs and its very mild in noise and recoil, but the boolits group well. Of course you'll need to use a lube such as Felix lube, but you can do that simply by smearing it in the grooves with your (or their) fingers and probably even load with out sizing the boolits.

One problem I find with .22 Hornet is volume. 100 rounds of .30 cal rifle is perhps a days' worth of shooting, 100 rounds of .22 Hornet is a couple of minutes.

Also, if you load w/o gas checks, you may need to flare the thin little cases a bit. I use a .243 sizing die and adjust its height in the press until the case mouths just bump the neck mandrel, and that leaves a nice little flare to start the unchecked boolits. Then my seating die is tight enough to remove the flare when the boolit is seated.

[mroliver77]

I shoot the 225438 unchecked over small doses of Bulls Eye. I put 50 -100 boolits in an old pan and warm it enough to heat some Felix lube and roll boolits around until they cool. I then put them in a short box and dust with a touch of talc. Also these work well out of pure lead or very soft alloy.
J

[35remington]

My Bullberry barrel sends the 225415 through the target sideways at 1000 fps. I've got either a 1-12 or 1-14 twist; I need to check and repost the actual twist tomorrow. It's fine at 1100 or better but probably marginally stable; you'd lose that stability at lower temperatures. Call it as needing 1200 fps or more for that bullet under all conditions.

Your Hornet won't get it done with a bullet much longer than the 225438 at the slower speeds. If you use softer lead add some tin as the small bands on the 438 don't want to fill out very well.

[w30wcf]

hornsurgeon,
As mentioned, the 225438 is the one you would want. I found that 2.2 grs. / 231 shoots the bullet sans g.c. very well. I didn't chronograph it, but 3.3 / 231 does 1,580, so estimate 2.2 at around 1,100 f.p.s. or so.

I got the same result that 35 remington indicated with the 225415 2.2 /231 = keyholes.

I did try Trail Boss and found that 2.5 grs. gave 1,183 f.p.s. but the accuracy wasn't as consistent as the 2.2 /231.

PRIMERS - I would strongly suggest the use of small pistol primers with the above loads.......much more consistant results.

Have funnn!
w30wcf

[Lucky Joe]

I'm trying to do the same thing as hornsurgeon, the only .224 mould I have is the RCBS 22-055-FP. Has anyone had any luck with this one, it also needs a GC.

[hornsurgeon]

thanks for the input from all. i will be looking for a used 45 grain mold at the local gun show this weekend. i just want to come up with an economical setup so i can keep my 3 kids and myself loaded up without breaking the bank on gas checks. if i must check, then so be it. has anyone here modified a mold to remove the check and make it a flatbase?

[35remington]

"the only .224 mould I have is the RCBS 22-055-FP. Has anyone had any luck with this one, it also needs a GC."

At the higher speeds it is fine. Don't figure on any less than around 15-1800 fps depending upon the twist you've got.

"has anyone here modified a mold to remove the check and make it a flatbase?"

A whole bunch of guys here do that. You might try soliciting a few; Buckshot to name one might do it for you.

[felix]

Might not work for best accuracy, depending on how much the center of gravity moves towards the nose after the shank is cut off. ... felix

[HORNET]

You could join the waiting list for the eternally back-ordered .22 Bator at Midsouth. I'd rather go whittling on a $20 mold than on a much pricier RCBS. IIRC, Bullshop Dan had a .22 Bator shortened into a plain base and used it quite successfully for whacking small game. Ought to be about the same length as the 225438 but about 50 gr.

[hornetguy]

thanks for the input from all. i will be looking for a used 45 grain mold at the local gun show this weekend. i just want to come up with an economical setup so i can keep my 3 kids and myself loaded up without breaking the bank on gas checks. if i must check, then so be it. has anyone here modified a mold to remove the check and make it a flatbase?

I haven't removed a GC, but I did remove the bevel base from a Lee mold once, making it a sharp flat base... It was on a .375 mold.
I imagine if you had access to a mill or a lathe, it wouldn't be difficult, other than the small diameter of the bullet.

[hornetguy]

Might not work for best accuracy, depending on how much the center of gravity moves towards the nose after the shank is cut off. ... felix


Felix... I did mine by just boring out the bevel... if you could do that with the mold, rather than facing off the top, it should actually move the CoG rearward slightly, shouldn't it?

[Red Logan]

primers n pellets... works for me...

[hornsurgeon]

i talked to both midsouth and lee. lee is going to make the bador molds, but don't plan on having them done for another 3 months or so. i was thinking of trying the bador when it becomes available, and if it doesn't work as is i could try boring out the gas check.

[drinks]

I have made reamers to remove the gas check part, easily done by hand, especially if you have a drill press to hold the reamer while you turn the chuck by hand, but a drill press is not necessary.
The .22 Bator shoots good in my .223 anywhere from 1200 to 2400fps, I have not tried it without a diaper [ gas check], at 700-900 fps but see no reason it would not do well.