35 whelen loads

[siamese4570]

Need a little help here guys. Got a handi-rifle in 35 whelen. My intention is it will be a dedicated boolit gun. Got a NOE 235 gr mold off a group buy that I've been working with but I can't get it to group, more like patterns. I've tried imr3031, 5744, and 2400. got one good load with the 2400 (19 grs) but it was pretty slow (1500 fps). would like to get to the 1800-1900 fps range. Any suggestions on a different powder. I'm casting with ACWW, sizing to .359 with a gascheck and using 50/50 beeswax/vasoline lube.
siamese4570

[35Whelen]

Can you get the rifling to engrave the nose of the boolit? Sure seems to help with alignment. As for powder...my Whelen is a 1-12 twist and it loves IMR4064. I had it suggested to me last week that H4895 you can look up the max load for jacketed bullets and drop that down to 60% and work your way up from there. So using a 225 grain J word at 55.5 with H4895, start with 33 grains and a bit of dacron to fill the space .5 to 1 grains of dacron...work your way up from there and use a chronograph to see if you are getting adequate increases with each extra grain of powder. You might also want to start heat treating the rounds. Blammer wrote about it a while back, once he started heat treating his Whelen really started to perform
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Hodgdon%20H4895%20reduced%20rifle%20load.pdf

[pworley1]

My best cast load for the 35 Whelen is a duplex load of 4g of IMR 4198 under enough WC 872 to cause a lightly compressed load under a Lyman 358315 200g bullet. It gives around 2000fps and in my handi rifle is very accurate. The same process should work with your NOE 235. The load is not a high pressure load.

[Shuz]

My Whelen also loves 4064.

[35 shooter]

siamese4570 i've got that same boolit from the group buy if you mean the 360230 noe.
Haven't had much time to work with it and haven't worked out a load yet, but 48 to 49 gr. of imr4350 acted like it wanted to shoot. I've had some mixed results like you so far but i had it seated out and into the rifling. I've got it backed off to just contacting the .360 portion of the nose in the throat now.
I may be wrong but in my rifle at least, i think this boolit is gonna want some run at the rifling and just bare throat contact....we'll see.

BTW i ran it up to 56 gr. of the 4350 but was only getting 2" round groups @ 100 yds. Some loads showed vertical stringing, thus the reason i'm seating it shorter now to try again.
I think the 360230 noe is gonna be a shooter, but may be ticky about seating depth.Good luck with yours!

[TXGunNut]

I'm looking forward to trying H4895, H or IMR4350, 4198 and possibly 4064 or Varget if the first few powders don't work. Seems to me the 35 Whelen likes a bit slower powders with boolits than it does with j-words.
And yes, mine's still sitting on my workbench. Haven't even put a set of handles on it yet. :-(

[35 shooter]

I'm looking forward to trying H4895, H or IMR4350, 4198 and possibly 4064 or Varget if the first few powders don't work. Seems to me the 35 Whelen likes a bit slower powders with boolits than it does with j-words.
And yes, mine's still sitting on my workbench. Haven't even put a set of handles on it yet. :-(

Lol, your gonna have to get on the ball if your gonna hunt with that boolit this year! Besides, i'm banking on you to find a good load i can use. I've sure struck out so far.
This boolit sure cuts perfect holes in paper..kind of like the Thor boolit!

[Yodogsandman]

I'm also just starting load development with the NOE 360230 but, using the hollow point option at 214gr. I first tried IMR4350 but, it seemed too slow. I'm trying IMR4064 and it seems to want to shoot. I started with boolits HT'd at 450F and quenched in ice water. COAL at 3.015", just off the lands. Lubed with Bens Red and sized to .360". I haven't got too far, this is my first group with my starting load of IMR4064 at 48.0gr. I'm guessing velocity at 1800 FPS.

[siamese4570]

Thanks Guys! Good info. Knew that somebody here would have an idea on how to proceed. Won't get to it real soon, deer season opens this weekend. going to try my handi rifle in 30-30. Use the lee 170gr at about 1800 fps.
siamese4570

[35Whelen]

Yodogsandman......I think thats the start of a great looking load, especially since you have the first three out of a cold barrel. That's where it's gonna count.

[Yodogsandman]

35Whelen, Thanks... but, those last two shots and the next 5 shots showed inconsistent velocities. Using more powder has showed some improvement with rounder groups of about 2"+. I think I can get up to 56.0gr in the case, that was just the starting load and the first group. I don't want to lead anyone astray with just the one group. I still have work to do on this load. I did change the scope setting between groups. Here's the next 5 shots, same batch and conditions...

[35Whelen]

Wow...that's the same load as the previous one? If I had seen this one earlier; vertical stringing is an indicator that you're getting close to what your rifle likes??? Am I right? Typically within a couple of grains.

[Yodogsandman]

Yep, I hope so. Each rifle is an individual, though, it'll let you know what it likes.

[TXGunNut]

Lol, your gonna have to get on the ball if your gonna hunt with that boolit this year! Besides, i'm banking on you to find a good load i can use. I've sure struck out so far.
This boolit sure cuts perfect holes in paper..kind of like the Thor boolit!

Been a crazy couple of months, hunting with the RD 359-190 first trip. I may get some cast this weekend but not sure when I'll get some loaded, let alone a load developed. Have a pretty nice stash of powder, primers and cases.

[TXGunNut]

What powders have you tried, Yodogsandman?

[Yodogsandman]

What powders have you tried, Yodogsandman?

Just the IMR4350 and IMR4064. The IMR4350 wasn't that bad and I only did up a few loads (2) with it.

[sthwestvictoria]

Need a little help here guys. Got a handi-rifle in 35 whelen. My intention is it will be a dedicated boolit gun. Got a NOE 235 gr mold off a group buy that I've been working with but I can't get it to group, more like patterns. I've tried imr3031, 5744, and 2400. got one good load with the 2400 (19 grs) but it was pretty slow (1500 fps). would like to get to the 1800-1900 fps range. Any suggestions on a different powder. I'm casting with ACWW, sizing to .359 with a gascheck and using 50/50 beeswax/vasoline lube.
siamese4570
Sometimes if a rifle doesn't shoot it is helpful to go back to jacketed/factory - if this doesn't shoot then it points to more barrel/muzzle/sighting problems than the many cast bullet variables.

However if it shoots well with jacketed then I would suggest a slower powder - AR2206H (H4895) or AR2208(Varget) if you have any of these. I have not used it but I would have thought 3031 would have been a good choice.

I would also second the advise of oven heat treating - it removes the is it hard enough part of the equation. Once you have a accurate load then trial softer alloys with that load.

This is my accuracy load currently, using oven HT WW. I use the same load iwth ACWW which opens up the group to 1.5inches but still (hopefully) a hunting load. Using 50:50 opens the group up further.
http://i60.tinypic.com/2yuk9ci.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/10qhp5l.jpg

[35Whelen]

Sthwestvictoria....what is the equivalent of your AP 2206H

[Blammer]

Might I suggest that you water quench your bullets, let them age a week then load and try them.

I went through the same plight you did, and that cured my ailments.

As far as powder choices, I'd suggest IMR4350 or 4895.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Targets/35Whelen/WQWWIMR435052gr001.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/blammer8mm/media/Targets/35Whelen/WQWWIMR435052gr001.jpg.html)

[sthwestvictoria]

Sthwestvictoria....what is the equivalent of your AP 2206H


AR2206H is made here in Australia by ADI then sold to Hodgdon and re-packaged as H4895.

[35Whelen]

And there you go....Blammer confirming the Heat treating solution. Sthwest...thanks very much appreciate the clarification on the powder.

[TXGunNut]

Just the IMR4350 and IMR4064. The IMR4350 wasn't that bad and I only did up a few loads (2) with it.


I'm thinking 4895 and H4350, Ol' Ugly didn't like IMR4350 with my other boolits but I may try it again.

[TXGunNut]

And there you go....Blammer confirming the Heat treating solution. Sthwest...thanks very much appreciate the clarification on the powder.

Even my slower 35 Whelen loads do better with heat treating. Faster (untreated) boolits didn't lead even up past 2300 fps but it took HT'ing to get a decent group at any velocity. Doesn't make sense but that doesn't bother me much these days. ;-)

[35 shooter]

I'm thinking 4895 and H4350, Ol' Ugly didn't like IMR4350 with my other boolits but I may try it again.

Thinking the same thing. Maybe even 3031 too. With the lube grooves on this boolit it just might take the boot and scoot from 3031?

Agree with all the heat treat comments...seems to just work with the whelen for sure! 4064 is another good one too..can't wait to see how that works out.

[sthwestvictoria]

Another thought is about twist rate. I believe the 7600 rem are a slower 1:16, mine is 1:13, any ideas what the handi rifles have ?

[Yodogsandman]

I believe that they're 1 in 16". The NOE bullet should perform real good in it.

[smoked turkey]

I will put in my two cents worth from my shooting the Whelen with the 3589 boolit (293 grains-ww with pure mixed in) using IMR 3031 and 4350. I have found reasonable accuracy with my Ruger M77 MkII, 1:16 twist, 21" barrel. The following information is for my rifle, & shooting conditions. I expect you may have somewhat different results, but here are mine: 35 gr. 3031, velocity-1791 '/s ave, 3.34 group size ave; 39.8 gr. 3031, velocity-1946 '/s average, 2.19" group size average; 47 gr 4350, group size 2.66", no chrono readings taken. From my limited shooting I can say that I believe I will get slightly better results with 3031 as compared to 4350. The 4350 seems to have more unburned powder in the barrel. In all cases the primers were large rifle, not magnum primers. The C.O.A.L. was 3.105"-3.110" with a slight crimp in the very top of the crimp groove. I did shoot a big doe earlier in the week with the 4350 load at 40 yards. Ofcourse a through shot with lots of expansion on the off side and a 1 1/2" exit hole. I will say that with the big 3589 there is no eating up to the hole as in some other smaller calibers and boolit weights. It fairly destroyed the off side shoulder and it exited at the rear most portion of the left shoulder. So much blood shot meat that I discarded the left shoulder completely. I am not surprised at the collateral damage given a whitetail is fairly soft skinned and not too hard to put down. I plan to do some more load work after deer season. I am planning a spring black bear hunt in Canada and that is what I am doing now is experimenting with the boolit on deer to see how it performs. Hope my experience can benefit someone with similar interests.
Stan...aka smoked turkey