Noe 311299 hp

[mattd]

I love the mold. It functions so well i smile the whole time I use it. It came w hollow point, cup point and flat nose pins. Casted w 75ww/25pure/2tin, and pushed around 1900fps the hollow point is 3/4" at 50y in my 3006. Last year with the Lee 170FN at 2000fps I didn't appear to get any expansion on a deer with 100% ACWW. That's why I casted a little softer.

Fat old doe. Hit pretty well broad side at 30y. Quarter sized hole in fur in, thought I saw small spot of blood on the exit. Looked perfect. Dressed her and the on side lung was toast, but off side intact and no exit??? Thought maybe it went up thru spine, I was shooting slightly up hill. But she ran 30y?? Quartered her tonite and no exit that I can be sure off. Thought there would be so didn't look for bullet in the gut pile. Only one rib hit and lots of blood shot meat. A couple small pieces of lead on the outside of meat. I think the small blood in the fat must be the exit but I can't get my finger thru a hole.

[mattd]

6 month old doe. Hit perfect, hart/lungs etc. ran bout 60y. Broke on side shoulder, but not a ton of meat damage and 1-2" hole in and out.

Think i'll try the flat point next year w the 75/25.

[1johnlb]

I've got the same NOE mould (311299rg) and I casted the same 75/25 ww/pb WQ. I'm loading 22gr 4227 in a 7.5x55, guesstimated at 1700 or so. What load are you using? Looking at your pics and info I might need to change to a different powder and speed it up.

[white eagle]

looks like you may be to fast for the hp
NOE make real nice molds cast beautiful boolits
congrats on the deer

[mattd]

I agree its too fast for the HP (its the most accurate for me). i would feel plenty confident in your 1700fps and the HP, 1john. I was loaded w 34g of Varget, no filler. I would question the WQ tho. Seems like my WQ 50/50 blows up on compressed cardboard targets. 75/25 would probably be more brittle? Even if yours didn't completely come apart the nose is likely to break up, leading to more meat damage and less penetration.

Like I said I think i will go w the FP next year. The deer last year w the Lee FP I made a less quality hit on and it went a little less far then these this year, not that that mean a whole lot, but there wasnt any meat damage there. But i'll use the 75/25 rather then the 100/0.

[taco650]

Maybe it didn't work as well as you would've liked but it worked. Congrats on getting some meat in the freezer.

[mattd]

Butchering the meat tonite and one of the rear quarters was real bloody, not blood shot, just needed to be rinsed well. Couldn't figure out what was up. Then I found the bullet. In my mind she was barely quartering to, maybe it deflected and went rearward. The guts weren't touched tho.

Started at 193g, retained 145g, outside dia avg around .58. Results look cool and are exciting, but I still am sticking w the flat point next time.

[MT Gianni]

Sometimes bullets do odd things. It may have turned on a rib but that is what a nosler partition should look like. I would call the first doe being bloodshot bad luck or hit a little bit off. The second one is what we all want. I am not sure i would change.

[selmerfan]

That looks pretty much perfect - it's always hard to tell what bullets do after they hit an animal.

[1johnlb]

I think that looks good too. My only concern would be where's the other 48g.
I wonder if 50/50 with some copper would hold it together better, and still get that mushroom effect.

[MT Gianni]

I would count the other 48 gr as erosion loss. Just as in squirting a bunch of gumbo mud with a car wash hose it erodes it slowly leaving water in the material. Your penetration was probably over 40" leaving around 1.2 gr per inch. Another reason when we say eat right up to the hole we do not eat the hole. Typical performance from a jacketed bullet as well, the velocity and friction erode the exposed lead coming off not in chunks but small particles.

[stephen m weiss]

Looks great, and grats! I agree that most is erosion, although I have found quite a few flakes of lead from factory soft nose that sort of shot-gunned inside the animal and embedded in the far side ribs. I couldnt see the hits so much as feel them with my bare fingers. As the lead erodes, some of it spalls away and comes off in bigger pieces which scatter and get everywhere.

About the rear bullet, sometimes slow moving bullets will get under the skin and roll along quite a ways without doing much damage. They they may suddenly exit, or hit something and get stuck. I had a .177 pellet zip several inches under a rabbits skin after breaking some ribs then suddenly exit about 6" from the entry point. The last few inches before the exit hole showed no damage at all. It was a real bugger trying to figure out how I could have 2 entry holes and no exits but no pellets inside! Haha, so I finally decided on the slide along under the skin theory. It's not just skinning knives and fingers that can do that.

[mattd]

I brought a buddy to one of my spots during bow season. He made a straight down shot on a 10pt, his first buck w bow. We followed a consistent, light but easy blood trail for 600y. When we got the guts out we were looking thru the vitals for damage. Nothing. Looked at the body and the arrow skirted between skin and rib cage. Appeared to even follow the curve of the ribs.

[taco650]

Have you read this sticky?
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?172689-I-believe-the-cast-lead-rifle-boolit-is-the-most-effective-projectile-in-the-world
If not, read the first few pages. Tim does a great job of explaining why he chose to use 50/50 WW's/Pure.

[Elkins45]

I brought a buddy to one of my spots during bow season. He made a straight down shot on a 10pt, his first buck w bow. We followed a consistent, light but easy blood trail for 600y. When we got the guts out we were looking thru the vitals for damage. Nothing. Looked at the body and the arrow skirted between skin and rib cage. Appeared to even follow the curve of the ribs.

And that killed it? Purely from slow blood loss?

[mattd]

Yep. goes to show how much it followed the curvature of the ribs, but didn't break the skin. hit an artery next to the spine, curved around the ribs and came out low. so w an artery bleeding and a hole on the bottom it was slow and consistent. We also gave him 3 hours.

[mattd]

Little more post mortem. Got to the front, on side leg. small hole in (top hole). 2" later and massive hole on the back side. Clipped the shoulder blade and broke the bone below the blade. Hamburger all around that area. Maybe found less then 10g of lead in the hide, and meat....so erosion! Was waiting on NOE to get the HP version of the 44cal 310 mold for 44mag and 444, but I think I'm done w deep HPs.

[1johnlb]

Maybe, make the next one a headshot.

[Larry Gibson]

Mattd

Just how deep is the HP and what is the diameter of the HP at the nose?

I've been using HP'd .30 caliber cast bullets for many years on deer. I started out with a 311041HP Lyman (still have it) and found a lot of meat damage as you've shown. I've also had the same amount of meat damage with the same 311041 w/o the HP and of the same alloy. I learned that if your going to kill a deer with a bullet (any bullet) meat damage will happen. Many variables involved.

I also figured out the deep HP of the typical Lyman .30 caliber mould was not necessary and was causing more meat damage than necessary. I began shortening the HP and softening the alloy while still maintaining good hunting accuracy with 2000 - 2200 fps muzzle velocity for a max range of 200 yards. I slow that down to 1800 - 1900 fps if the range will be 100 yards or less.

I eventually found that a 1/8" HP not more than 3/16" deep was about perfect for .30 - .375 caliber bullets cast of COWWs + 2% tin and then mixed at 50/50 with lead. Expansion was always good and meat damage was minimal and acceptable. I always try to put the bullet through the heart regardless of angle which most often results in at least one of the front shoulders being hit. The deer do not go far. I also now prefer to use the 1/8" Forster HP tool as the HP depth can easily be varied to what I want. However I still use the 311041 and the 323471 with the HP stem shortened to give only a 3/16" HP depth.

Shown is the meat damage to a nice little Texas buck I shot with the RCBS 35-200-FN cast of the mentioned alloy and HP'd with the Forster HP tool to 3/16" deep [outside entrance, inside entrance, outside exit and inside exit]. The load runs 3140 fps aand the buck was about 90 yards away. At taking the shot he just staggered about 20 - 25 yards before going down. He was dead before I walked up to him. Also is the 35 Remington HP'd and solid and a 314299 HP'd with the Forster loaded in a 7.62x54R.

Larry Gibson

122735122736122732122737122734122733

[mattd]

The NOE drawing looks like .200 wide and .245 deep. that's the HP, no info on the cup point, which I haven't casted with. good looking results Larry! the first deer, with the deflection and therefore presumably more catastrophic entrance, was a mess, but the other one was in perfectly acceptable shape, which included a broken shoulder.

And of course you have to show off some pretty 35rem's. I was day dreaming about adding one while browsing gunbroker last nite. Thinking in a contender pistol. Must be a sign.

[Pilgrim]

Larry - 3140 fps? I suspect your fingers did some wandering while prepping that reply! :oops::bigsmyl2:

[1johnlb]

NICE little get away cabin you've got mattd. Home away from home, it probably makes it hard to come back to "civilization". I would have to sell everything and say goodbye carnal world, goodbye wifey.[smilie=s:

[mattd]

Thanks! I need to update that thread from the last couple weekends of deer season. It's only an hour away, but always hard to leave. Soooo much work left to do. Been working on the woods lately.

[truckjohn]

Sounds like it did just fine... 2 deer shot, 2 deer dead.

If anything - think about the ranges you shoot at... If you want more penetration - consider slowing down the velocity to 1,600-1,800 fps rather than 2,000-2,200 fps...

Also - the cup point will expand a little less...

Otherwise... Leave well enough alone.