How does not powder coating bullet base work ?

[mikes farm]

I am trying to get started powder coating Boolits.
In the videos of people spraying bullets the bottoms are not coated
and still preform like tumble powder coated ?
do the bases still melt, but can not get past coated sides ?
It seems that melted bases would deposit lead ?
Sprayed can still take near full 357 velocities ?
Regards
Mike

[Beagle333]

Why does the base have to melt? How are you melting it? :confused:

[mikes farm]

Sorry to assume.
I assumed that if we normally get gas jetting up the sides, that
the pressure wave pushing would be like plasma, trying to melt the base.

[bangerjim]

If you are geting wild gassing like that, you DEFINITELY need GC's and NOT rely on PC on the bases......even with DT!

The coating of the base that occurs with DT is merely a fact that it gets coated by that method. Nothing to do with adding protection and should not be used as such.

PC offers very little to absolutely NO protection against cutting and you should really be using Cu checks.....not PC.....for protection.

banger

[mikes farm]

Again I am new to PC, but I thought the whole idea of PC
is to prevent gas cutting vs just a lube method alternative ?

[Beagle333]

It is an alternative to lubing. It lets the boolit slide easily and protects against friction from the barrel. It makes the boolit slippery and functions as a lube would, while making the boolits clean to handle and keeping dies clean. It also can increase diameter of a slightly-too-small boolit and make it fit better, which would help prevent cutting, but it doesn't prevent it solely on its own. But it doesn't seal like a gas check, I can't prove that it helps prevent any stripping of the rifling if overpowered, and it doesn't protect the base, even if applied to cover it completely. Bases don't melt anyway.

It provides long term storage without oxidation of the boolits, or the lube drying/cracking or melting out of the lube grooves; it makes pretty boolits (unlimited colors), it allows color coding of loads if one wants to separate hot loads from plinkers, etc.; it doesn't smoke when fired (the indoor shooters like that), and it is much cheaper than any used lubesizer you will ever find. It also lets you store loaded boolits without any fear of long term powder contamination from lube (especially in heat), and as mentioned it also sizes up boolits that may be just a hair too small.... making some Lyman and Ideal molds give people the size boolit they were looking for, without having exactly the perfect alloy and the perfect temp for both mold and lead every time they cast. I know that I do have a couple of older single cavs that I really have trouble getting them to drop the size I want.

Here is a nice thread on gas checks, what causes leading, and what really happens to the bases.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?41033-The-real-story-on-Gas-Checks

[popper]

It does prevent gas cutting of the drive bands. Also serves as a lube. Gasses will not 'melt' the base but coating the base or at least the base edge will eliminate base edge damage.

[fcvan]

If base melting were a problem then paper patched boolits would have the base tail of the paper patch incinerated. I don't PP myself, but I've picked up patches after a friend shot his. I've also seen the base of lead boolits peened by powder kernels. Plasma cutting is a whole nother thing.

I generally check my high velocity boolits and I make my own gas checks, everything from standard checks to plain based checks from soda can. I love my CheckMaker dies from PatMarlins. When shooting high velocity magnum handgun, even at velocities where checks aren't required, I found that the checked boolits were more accurate that plain based boolits. I believe that is because there is less base deformation. Again, that is with plain based boolits with soda can checks. The only boolit I've fired that has a check shank and I didn't use a check was when I used an inert filler of corn meal. A lube cookie/wad would likely have done as well. Now let's talk PC

About 2 weeks ago, I finally tested some loads for a 30 Carbine rifle. The mold is an old SAECO 321 and the profile looks different than the current mold chart. Dad bought it back in the 1970s, when SAECO was still in Carpenteria, CA. He bought the 95gr RN mold just for the 30 Carbine but never used it. He says he had a bunch of the 110 plinker half-jacket bullets and never got around to casting with that mold. Well, I finally did, PCd them with HF flat black, and loaded them over 14 gr of 4227, listed as a starting load for a comparable jacketed boolit. The chronograph said 1650 fps, the rifle cycled just fine, and the cases ejected into a nice tight pile. This is a plain based boolit, the PC was not applied to the base, and there was no indication of port fouling. 1 pass with a dry patch and the bore was pristine. I will cast a bunch more, PC them either gloss black or copper colored, maybe even some zombie green.

So, let's re-cap: Rifle cartridge, PC not covering the plain base, gas port not fouled, bore not fouled by plasma cut base of boolit. Oh ya, I gave soda cans hell off-hand at 100 yards, no problemmo. Accuracy might be improved by a plain based gas check, but I don't have a 30 cal PB CheckMaker . . . yet! At this point I'm not sure I need one as this is the only 30 cal PB boolit mold on hand. The rest of my 30 cal boolits take checks and I have a regular CheckMaker for that. Well, there is the Lee TL309-230 5R, but I could put a check on the boat-tail base. Not sure why I would, it shoots fine ESPCd or ASBBDT coated as it is loaded subsonic in the 300 blk. I do plan on using the mini chop saw to PB some NOE 309-150 SP boolits and ESPC or ASBBDT coating those, just to do it. Kinda silly but the results might not be.

[Love Life]

Same way not lubing the base of a bullet works.

[popper]

Can't say why but my tests a couple years ago with 30/30 RD311170 PB did better with the base coated. Pushed 165 GC sans check pretty good in 308 with PC base, didn't try it bare based. Posted results on one of these threads.

[StromBusa]

somebody mentioned the "Time" factor...

[bangerjim]

fcvan.............[/QUOTE] I do plan on using the mini chop saw to PB some NOE 309-150 SP boolits and ESPC or ASBBDT coating those, just to do it. Kinda silly but the results might not be.[/QUOTE]

I have never had any luck cutting lead with a powered blade with fine teeth. Unless it is a REEEEEEEELY hard alloy. Normal lead up thru 11 or 12 just galls from the heat, binds the blade, and you have to break the blade to get it out. I learned that years ago when I ruined a couple very nice 8TPI expensive power hack saw blade that got "melted" into a 4" hunk of relatively soft lead.

Those little cheap HF chop saws have no power and will bind up in a flash. I have 3 of them and they are great for cutting wood dowels, brass bar stock and tubing, and other normal stuff, but not soft lead. After having 2 blades "welded" in place, I gave up!

I cut my big hunks of lead with a rotary blade dual-rotation action saw. Like a hot knife thru butter!

Good luck. Hope you are using a very HARD alloy with that little saw.

banger

[popper]

Even cutting Isocore with a course blade saws-all will give you a real workout. Drilling into boolit alloy with a twist drill will get you stuck. Banger - did you ever test that Isocore you got?

[edctexas]

I have cut sailboat keel lead with a sawzall. I had no luck with standard blades, but picked up a special tree cutting coarse tooth blade. It is also sort of hollow ground type of blade. That worked. I had to lube the cut and it was a workout. Needed to cut 2 one hundred lb chunks into roughly 30+ lb chunks. A chainsaw works but wrecks the chain. That is fast cutting but it is messy. Any of these fling a lot of lead chunks around. You need to be careful with the mess and not go too fast or it melts rather than cutting.

Ed C

[Stars & Bars]

Cleaning the bullet base depends on whether a single or double base gunpowder is used. Double base gunpowders containing nitroglycerin [H335 or Bullseye for example] reacts badly with powder coat melting the powder coat and fouling the gunpowder 'wet' causing misfires [duds]. There are Youtube videos covering this subject. I either clean the bullet base removing powder coat or use gas checks when using a double base gunpowder with powder coated bullets. I am now 2 weeks into a month long experiment with powder coated bullets drip coated with 3 different types of wax to determine if waxes can react badly with powder coat. A hard heat required, a soft no heat required and the Lee NRA wax.