Midrange 454

[High Desert Hunter]

I am looking for powder ideas for a 340gr WFNPB bullet at 1200-1400fps, more in the 12-1300 range. Right now I am using HS6 and Unique, but I am running low on HS6, and Unique isn't really good for those kind of velocities with the heavier bullets. I have been experimenting with 2400, but it too seems better for the lighter weight bullets.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

i had the best luck with H110 for the 300gr boolits

[High Desert Hunter]

I use H110 for my full throttle 454 loads, but I won't go near the bottom loads with H110.

[gknarf]

4227 would work

[High Desert Hunter]

Someday I hope to be able to find some!

[dh2]

W296 is about the same as H110 and I have been able to find it when there was no H110 to be found

[Edster]

Give Lil Gun a look bottom loading looks to be in the range you are looking for.

[44man]

Twist is slow for the heavy boolits. They need shot faster. The 1 in 24" rate was made for speed.
Max load of 296 should do it.
The guns don't like Colt speeds.

[RobS]

AA#7, AA#9 or Accurate Arms 4100/Ramshot Enforcer (same powder) is also another good one. I have 10 to 11 pounds of 4100/Enforcer and have really taken to the powder for what you are wanting in the 454.

A person can get good accuracy with a 300-350 grainer starting at 1200 fps and gets better as you one goes, even with a 1:24" twist. My SRH 454 with a 7 1/2" barrel shoots 1 inch groups at 30 yards open sights at a bit over 1200 fps with the two LFN style designs I put together. I mostly shoot my 345 grainer out of the SRH and then the 310 grain in the Bisley BH.

[bobthenailer]

For loads in that velocity level of 1,200 to 1,300 fps HS6 is my choice also, if not try a powder in the same burning speed as HS6.

For loads in the 1,000 to 1,100 fps range i use 8.0 to 9.0 grs Tight group powder with excellent results.

For loads in the 1,450 fps range i have had excellent results with 28.0 grs of 296/H-110 and 26grs of WCC 820

[RobS]

W296 is about the same as H110 and I have been able to find it when there was no H110 to be found

W296 and H110 are the same powder with only lot to lot variance.

[High Desert Hunter]

I get good accuracy with bullets up to 360 grains as low as 900fps, my 45/70 has a 1:20 twist and stabilizes 550gr bullets at 1000fps. Long range the WFN designs tend to destabilize quicker than the LFN or SWC do, but even the big 360s are still stable at 150 yards, no keyholes. Right now I am almost out of HS6, which is what I have been using, and being in the middle of nowhere, my LGS hasn't gotten a powder shipment with pistol powder in months. Keep the suggestions coming, if they get a shipment in, I don't want to over look anything, my Freedom Arms gets hungry!

If you want to know what twist rate you need, here is a good calculator http://kwk.us/twist.html , length of bullet is the critical measurement, a 1:24 twist will stabilize a 1" bullet, the smaller the bore diameter, the faster the twist rate, now, as in the case of the 22-250 vs .223, you can use velocity to overcome some of the lack of twist rate. Every gun is different, but this formula has worked for me.

[44man]

No formula works, Greenhill the worst ever. The .44 Marlin is based on Greenhill with a 1 in 38" twist, what an abortion!
Want to see what a 45-70 will do with around 300 to 440 gr boolits, Get a BFR revolver with a 1 in 14" rate. 1 in 20 in a rifle is too slow and 1 in 18" is borderline. A rifle should be 1 in 16".
Every single twist thing I ever seen is too slow. Nobody has ever got it right.
I just used that site and got a 1 in 32" twist rate for my .475 BFR. ARE YOU KIDDING? Mine is 1 in 15" and has done 1/2" at 100 yards. 4 out of 5 on a 6" swinger at 400 yards after the first sighter. Yeah WFN boolit too.
No revolver maker in history has gotten twist rates better then Magnum Research. In the big guns, Freedom, Ruger and most others are wrong. The .454 should be 1 in 16". The .500's should be 1 in 15".122060 The hole in the top of this can is 5 shots from the BFR 45-70 at 100 yards. A friend did the other damage with an ACP rifle.
I shot a can at 200 yards with my .475, Creedmore and put it up at 100 and shot it off hand. Same stinking hole. http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg3/bfrshooter/Canat100ydsoffhand.jpg (http://s244.photobucket.com/user/bfrshooter/media/Canat100ydsoffhand.jpg.html)

[454PB]

I use BlueDot.

[High Desert Hunter]

My 45/70, with a 1:20 twist, and a 525gr bullet, at BP velocities will shoot MOA out beyond 500 yards, my 454, with the 1:24 will shoot 2 MOA out beyond 200 yards at 45 Colt velocities, and I have made hits on a plywood target set up for rifles at over 400 yards with 335gr bullets at 1200fps, and the bullets were still flying true. I think each gun is a rule unto itself, and while the twist calculator hasn't worked for you, it has helped me over the years. I was shooting the heavy 390s from my 454 15 years ago, and never had any issues. I am no Elmer Keith, and I'm nowhere near your class of shooter, hands and eyes won't allow it, but for my ranges, and the bullet weights I shoot, I have yet to have a single issue with my 454 out to 200 yards, and 99% of my shooting is 100 yards and in. I have even shot a sized down 412gr 45/70 bullet in my 454 at around 1K fps, and was very accurate at 50 yards. 454PB, I used to use a lot of Blue Dot, but I don't think I have seen a pound of the stuff in 2 years, it works very well in the 44 and 454. Have you tried AA #5 or #7? Just curious, I want to be able to buy anything that will work if it shows up. I may have to take a road trip to Albuquerque to see if Sportsman's Warehouse has anything in stock. I have plenty of Unique, just I am about tapped out of HS6 and 2400, which have been my midrange utility powders. I appreciate the inputs, and 44man, I know your feelings on the twist subject, and I generally defer to your experience, but in this case, personal experience has shown me different, not saying you are wrong, just know in my guns, what works, and has worked for a few years now. I bought a 454 for 325s-345s at 1500fps, years later, I'm glad I can shoot it with reduced loads, as the years of being an Air Force aircraft mechanic haven't been kind to my hands. Thank you again for the inputs, I at least have a list that is growing.

[High Desert Hunter]

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell44OverWeight.htm

This is a good article on the 44, and when I read it, I was surprised by the ability of the Marlin 1894 with a 1:38 twist to stabilize bullets over 300 grains, quite contrary to what I have read, and the main reason I didn't jump on one when I had the chance. There are a bunch of great articles on this website.

[44man]

Not to be with the Marlin. Sorry, does not work. So much is wrong I gag.

[High Desert Hunter]

I would sure like to wring one out with my 310gr RNFPGC bullet, shoots so good from my Super Blackhawk it's scary, like to just see for myself how well it does in the Marlin.

[454PB]

Way back when I discovered how versatile BlueDot was, I stocked up with several 5 pound kegs. Mine is Hercules. I've used it in everything from 9mm to 45/70.

For .454 loads, the combination I use closest to what you seek is:
Lyman 452651 GC cast in WW alloy, sized .452" weighing 330 grains
16 grains BlueDot, CCI 400 primer.

I own four .454 Casulls ranging from a 4 3/4" FA83 to a Puma model 92 rifle, so the velocity of this load ranges from 1200 fps in the short barrel to 1500 fps. in the long barrel.

I should also mention that I have increased the charge weight experimentally, but will not post those results here in the interest of "internet safety". The 16 grain loading was my starting point.

I can't discuss stability issues because I've had none, limiting my distances to under 100 yards.

[RobS]

I guess you could throw in Alliant Steel as well but metering it through a powder measure can be a PITA. I've load many rounds with this powder and it works very well. However, the only powder measure I've found that works consistently is the plain Jane, Lee auto disk powder measure with the square hopper that I cut out the baffle. Very stable powder but it isn't easy unless you have a dedicated and modified powder measure. I've even used Steel in heavy boolit 45 ACP +P loads with nice results and only a few unburnt powder flakes here and there. Similar to Blue Dot but doesn't seem to burn as hot.

[High Desert Hunter]

Never even considered Alliant Steel, haven't seen any load data for it. Looked back in my old load notes and found some good notes on Blue Dot, hope I can find some. Not worried about stability either, never had an issue.

[44man]

I made the Marlin shoot at 50 yards but 100 was a **** shoot. Deal me all new cards. It is a RB gun. I worked so hard with it I sold it to be made into a different caliber by Jack.
Beautiful little gun but a real ***. I got hold of Marlin and they sent me a Greenhill paper. Greenhill was for BP cannons. Why did Marlin change the .444 to 1 in 20"? I wanted them to change my barrel to the .444 twist but was over the two year warranty.

[High Desert Hunter]

Glen mentions in his article that there is a definite tipping point, and I personally have found in most guns, that the longer the bullet, and the more bearing surface there is, the faster twist you need. The .308 Win is a prime example, most .308s have a 1:12 twist, which shoot the 168gr match bullets very well, but when I moved up to the 208gr match bullets, accuracy started heading South, I wish I would have had some 220gr RN to see if it continued to deteriorate. Now in some cases, I have found, that what I think is a problem, really is that the bullet doesn't "settle down" until it reaches a certain yardage mark, I shot some very heavy (560gr if memory serves) bullets from my 1:20 45/70 (a #1), and at 100 yards, they shot a 3" group, which was unacceptable, so when I decided to shoot them just to empty the case, I picked a target that was a shade over 400 yards away, and was amazed that the group size only opened up by 1/2", I wasn't even expecting to hit the target. These bullets started out at 1100fps at 15ft from the muzzle, powder I was using back them was 5744. I am not an accomplished long range handgunner, never will be, for me, the handgun is generally a 100 yards and in proposition, I do shoot at ranges much further than that, but my primary concern are the shots a hundred and in. I enjoy shooting, rifles, handguns, and shotguns, I also dabble in archery, perhaps if I had been smart enough to focus on one, I would have been able to give you a run for the money.

122143

[44man]

Exactly correct. I can deal with a faster twist and over spin but never the other way.

[Cornbread]

I am looking for powder ideas for a 340gr WFNPB bullet at 1200-1400fps

4227 should get you where you want to go in the 454 Casull.

[High Desert Hunter]

I have an eye out for several powders now. For the time being, as I have plenty of Unique, I am going to see what I can accomplish with it. Even with shooting all of my other guns, I have still managed to put over 1K rounds through the FA, and I love it more every time I shoot it, it is the most comfortable pistol I have ever shot. So now I am hoping to get my hands on some 4227, Blue Dot, Alliant Steel, and more HS6. I am going to try some 2400, although I am getting down on my supply of it as well.