The joys of a bolt action 30 WCF

[Jack Stanley]

Some of you are familiar with how easy it is to get good groups from the old Remington 788 in any chambering . This one though is for the odd ball 30-30 Winchester round . Before I got the rifle someone thoughtfully put a Williams receiver sight on it . What is nice about this rifle is I have a nice hundred fifty grain jacketed bullet load for it and a light weight lead bullet that hits at the same sight setting .

What I'm into now is trying to at add the Lyman 311466 bullet into the same sight setting clan if I can . Current loading is twenty-two grains of Reloder seven , large rifle primer and the bullets sized at .309" with the bottom four groove filled with LBT blue lube . Overall length is long enough it isn't likely to run through a lever gun no leading is present with the load . The downside is even as nice as it shoots it's still several inches below the impact of the jacketed bullets .

My current Lyman manuals don't show this bullet listed in the 30WCF so I'm going slowly and watching close . Since the same manuals show Reloder seven in the same cartridge with a heavier bullet I can't help but wonder how much heavier of a charge I could get away with and raise the point of impact .

A question for you guys that have been on this road . Will increasing the powder charge a bit more raise the point of impact ? I don't much care if the lead bullet is faster or slower than the jacketed counterpart . Just as long as the load is safe and groups reasonably well I'm going to be happy . Any ideas ?

Thanks , Jack

[singleshot]

Jack, you have to specify at what range you;re measuring point of impact. At close(ish) range, increasing charge will lower the point of impact. At long(ish) distances the opposite will occur. Also, what do you estimate the current MV?

[Jack Stanley]

At thirty yards the groups are about an inch low , at a hundred and fifteen(ish) yards they are about two or three inches low . I think they may be in the eighteen hundred foot per second range but not real sure .

Jack

[singleshot]

How heavy do your 311466's drop at? At what range did you zero the rifle? Heavier recoil with slower boolits will raise point of impact at those ranges. On the other hand, I have seen choice of lube, gas check or not, and a few other factors affect POI.

I think you should load some lighter loads and see where they impact. (Unless you've already done that.)

[Blanket]

sold my 788 30-30 , my 35 whelen does it better, never looked back

[singleshot]

sold my 788 30-30 , my 35 whelen does it better, never looked back

This thread is for you: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?259494-Comment-only&p=3008214#post3008214

[sthwestvictoria]

To stay on topic as directed, I have not shot the 788 but do have a Savage 340 in 30-30. I have had some difficulties with the bolt catching on the tip of the top round in magazine with very flat meplats but apart from that it is a great way to shoot the 30-30.

[runfiverun]

I shoot a boolit similar to the 466 it's a mold made by walt melander but is a loverign design of about the same weight.
in the 340 savage I have run it up into jacketed territory without loss of accuracy, i'm using AA-2230 which is similar in burn speed to your rl-7.
I can use the same boolit in my win 94 but I do have to seat the boolit deeper to feed I don't change the load just the depth and I'm quite comfortable with doing so as I have reduced the load from the top end.

if I wanted what you want I'd just bump the load like the book say's you can until I was happy with things.
your cast boolit and the jacketed bullet are about 10 or so grains apart in weight so you'll end up about 100 fps slower to keep the trajectory's similar.

one more thing.
you may find more accuracy using less lube, I only lube the two lower grooves and could probably get by with just one.

[rintinglen]

Although counter intuitive, decreasing the powder charge may raise the impact slightly. There are two mechanisms at work, one is the absolute recoil of the firearm and the other is the barrel dwell time of the boolit. A lower charge decreases the former but increases the later, sometimes enough to compensate for the reduction in recoil. The problem is in calculating how much of the one do you need to balance out the other?

Your 22 grain load is very light, according to the Lyman 47th edition RELOADING HANDBOOK.

In the Contender section, they listed 22.5 grains RL 7 as the starting load with the 311-466 with a max load of 30 grains, both with an OAL of 2.540".

I used 34 grains of WW-748 with the same boolit, the hottest load that I could shoot with acceptable accuracy from my 94's. I don't know how if that load would shoot to the same POI as your other loads though. I suspect you'll just have to work your way up the ladder untill you either get where you want to go, or find that the road is washed out and you can't get there from here. Good luck.

[Jack Stanley]

Thanks guys it sounds like there is hope for this project after all . Perhaps tomorrow I can get after it .

Jack

[Jack Stanley]

In spite of the cold I got out with a few rounds with a bit more powder . That last batch I tried was twenty-six grains of Reloder seven and it was a bit higher on the target . I'll see if the weather will allow more shots tomorrow .

Jack

[popper]

Fill the rest of the case with dacron.

[Jack Stanley]

I never thought to look at the "Contender" section of the load books . Today , in spite of the weather I went out just long enough to fire four shots . Twenty-eight grains might be a bit much but I will load a few more near the twenty-seven grain mark I'm thinking a half grain higher and a half lower . Maybe I'll get a toothpick and clean the lube out of one of the rings . Runfiverun , are you using LBT blue or something similar ?


Jack

[TXGunNut]

Nice rifle. Haven't seen one since my younger, stupider (and chronically broke) days. I think the 788 action is more robust than the average 94 but I don't try to push a 30-30 much over 1800 so its a moot point.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I sneak up on 308 velocities with my old Model 54 in 30WCF and 150gr boolets...

[Jack Stanley]

I won't be looking to magnumize this rifle anytime soon . I do have a rifle that can throw heavier and faster if need be . Actually the load I really like to shoot is the H&G number sixty-seven and a light charge of fast powder . It is something of a unique rifle .... at least to me . Weather is not cooperating today but I have loads of 26.5 and 27 grains waiting for better light outside .

Jack

[ohland]

I think the 788 action is more robust than the average 94 but I don't try to push a 30-30 much over 1800 so its a moot point.

The 788 is pretty strong, with a caveat - the rear locking bolts will give more _IF_ you are shooting atomic loads.... Love the lock time. Love the receiver. Hate the factory trigger. If you want a good time (want good time sailor? call 123-4567) cough up some bux (@ $120) and buy a Timney http://www.timneytriggers.com/shop/timney-remington-788-replacement-trigger.aspx

I have done the Remington original trigger mod, and I disliked it so much I bought a Canjar Hunter trigger. Canjar is gone, so the only game in town for after-market triggers is Timney. Top notch build, fits in short or long actions.

Breaks like glass. Might not float the boat for everyone, but it is darned good.

[Motor]

When I got my Rem. 541T .22LR for small bore silhoutte I noticed the trigger was the same as my Mod 788's except the 541's was fully adjustable.

I layed out the position of the hole as measured on the 541 and I drilled and tapped the 788's trigger for the adjusting screw and put one in. I installed it with a lock nut so after setting it to the weight I wanted I tightened the lock nut and covered it with enamel.(yeah finger nail polish) It's been like this since the early 1990s. The stock had to be lightly modified to fit the screw but it had already been cut to fit my short arms anyway. lol

788's don't really have trouble with the locking lugs its the bolt itself that gets compressed after many hot loads but the compression is so small of a amount that it can only be measured using fine measuring equipment. I don't think a 30-30 or any of the lighter calibers are very likely to cause it.

I agree with the OP 100%. The 30-30 is a great round when you remove the limitations of the tubular magazine at least as far as versatality goes.

[azrednek]

sold my 788 30-30 , my 35 whelen does it better, never looked back

I was surprised to find out the Remington 788 in 30/30 is popular with custom rifle builders. I'm not familiar with the details but I've been told the action is used to build 45/70's, 444 Marlin and even 357 plinkers.


Years ago I had a 788 in 22/250. I bought it at Grant's Dept Store for a hundred and change. It came with a cheapie Universal brand scope. It printed tight clusters bench rested to 100 yards and despite the low price tag, it was a great Coyote killer. I foolishly traded it away for a pair of chrome reverse rims.

[Gtek]

I think the 788 guy's may be in a cult, go look at used prices for those things! I was toying the idea of a build using a 788 action being about the only center rear lugged out there. I have since decided not to proceed with latest mind melt and if I found one under hundreds of dollars in 30WCF I do not think I would/could dismantle.

[richhodg66]

I have a 788 in .30-30 I got a year or so back. Initial results were very pleaseing, just not sure it'll do much a good bolt gun in .308 won't do as well or better. I like my Savage 340 a lot too, and consider it a better hunting rifle.

I like 788s and have owned a few. Only other one at the moment is a 6mm and I love it.

[Jack Stanley]

Not a cult , it's like any other out of production rifle that people have found to late that it works real well for some purposes . I have noticed and you have too that some guys stuff is worth more than others .

Jack

[richhodg66]

I like the 788s and remember how they were kind of sneered at for being cheapies when they were still in production, but compared to the bottom rung bolt actions being sold now, a 788 feels like a Rolls Royce to me by comparison.

I wish someone would start making them again.

[gnoahhh]

A lot of guys did good work in CBA Production-class competition back in the day with 788 .30-30s. No moss grows on that gun.

If you want a Cadillac of .30-30 bolt guns, find yourself a Winchester M54. Mine wears a Lyman receiver sight for those rare occasions it gets hunted, and a 10x Unertl for serious bench shooting. It is a consistent MOA shooter for 10 shot groups, and enough 1/2MOA 5 shot groups show up to guarantee it'll never leave my hands- with cast loads. Funny, but accuracy is somewhat less with jacketed stuff.