45 colt Lee factory crimp die?

[Cornbread]

I need to get a crimp die for my 45 colt brass as the dies I have are 454 Casull specific and everything works great except the brass can't reach the crimp portion of my dies when using 45 colt brass. So I need only the crimp die for when I am doing 45 colt brass and I would like to do seating and crimping in two steps for both 454 Casull and 45 Colt without needing to adjust my seating and crimping die between those two steps. That is why I would like a separate crimp die.

When I look online I see a lot of Lee Factory Crimp dies for sale but I am concerned that it also says it does re-sizing as well as crimping. Does that mean if I put a .454 bullet in there it is going to get sized down to .452 before it gets crimped? Because if that is the case then I definitely don't want that. I want it just to crimp. I'd also like to be able to get it off Amazon because I get free shipping there. Can somebody on here clear up for me if this die does re-sizing as well as crimping?

[High Desert Hunter]

It is my understanding that it brings everything into factory specs.

[DougGuy]

If it's carbide, yes it has the sizing ring in the bottom and you won't have a .454" anymore. Your seating die for .45 Colt also does the roll crimp. No need for a special die unless you want a specific crimp other than the roll crimp. You could use two seating dies to do what you want to do without adjusting.

[454PB]

Some guys have removed that carbide ring to prevent boolit sizing.

[Cornbread]

If it's carbide, yes it has the sizing ring in the bottom and you won't have a .454" anymore. Your seating die for .45 Colt also does the roll crimp. No need for a special die unless you want a specific crimp other than the roll crimp.

The problem is my 454 Casull dies don't work to crimp my 45 colt brass at all because the brass never reaches the crimp portion of the die even with the shell holder touching the die base. I need a roll crimp die for 45 colt so I can use it on both 454 and 45 colt and I will use my existing 454 crimp die only to seat and not crimp. It looks like you guys are saying the factory die re-sizes as well and I don't want that so I need to find just a regular 45 colt roll crimp die. I'd rather not buy a whole die set, I just want the roll crimp die with no re-sizing.

[paul h]

I just got one of those dies and I'll have to check to see if it sizes down the bullet as well as crimping. I went the opposite route using 45 acp dies to load some 45 colt rounds until I get a set of 45 colt dies and the 45 acp seater/crimper wasn't providing a sufficient crimp.

[5Shot]

Google lee collet crimp die 45 colt...it works great and only crimps.

[Cornbread]

Some guys have removed that carbide ring to prevent boolit sizing.

I don't have the equipment to do that or I would totally do so. The only person I know who could do that for me lives in Kalispell but if I had it shipped to him, it would probably only be another $5 to ship it from him to me. So I guess that would be an option.

[Cornbread]

Google lee collet crimp die 45 colt...it works great and only crimps.

Thanks I like collet crimps, I wasn't aware they were available for pistols. Will it properly crimp 454 Casull as well?

[Edster]

++1 on the collet crimp....and yes it will work for both the 45 Colt and 454 Casull

http://leeprecision.com/45-colt-custom-carbide-factory-crimp-die.html

[Cornbread]

Thanks guys! I think I will be ordering one of those then.

[DougGuy]

Here is a thread I did about modifying my #80337 Lee uncataloged collet style factory crimp die:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?201449-Question-about-type-of-crimp-required&p=2239315&viewfull=1#post2239315

This is pic of crimps this die does, it is exactly the same crimp as Buffalo Bore uses on their hunting ammo and hot dog loads:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/0d3c189d-b085-4d95-a658-1f0f88b78255_zps3f37d14d.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/0d3c189d-b085-4d95-a658-1f0f88b78255_zps3f37d14d.jpg.html)

The reasons I modified mine are listed in the thread. One thing you will be advised to do is trim cases and get them all even in length so they get not only crimped in the same place, but seating depths are the same across the board. If you use cases that are different lengths, the crimp isn't even on all of them. This at first may sound like a pita, but once done, it removes yet anther variable in the loading sequence, and while I weigh every charge for accuracy, this style crimp really works good when the cases are all trimmed to the same length, and if you do modify yours, you can place the crimp band exactly where it needs to be on the case mouth.

I am finding this crimp to be quite beneficial in using slow burning powders in that it provides more resistance to boolit movement than a roll crimp, my testing in .44 magnum shows about a 25fps increase in velocity over the same rounds, with weighed charges, and a roll crimp.

Here is a few .44 Magnum rounds, with fired cases, in the comparison of collet crimp vs roll crimp. Collet crimp on the left, roll crimp on the right:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/DSC03150_zps2fffcc0c.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/DSC03150_zps2fffcc0c.jpg.html)

I do not see where this die will work for .454 Casull. The die is actuated by the shellholder pushing up on the collet to close it. The .454 Casull brass would be sticking .100" through the crimp band. The collet itself is carbon steel, and would require either use of a spacer that sits on the shellholder like a thick washer or a slug of pipe cut to the right length, or a guy like myself that has a TiG welder could weld a piece on the end of it to make the collet longer which will correctly crimp .454 Casull.

Cornbread, if you want to order two of these I will modify one for .454 Casull if you'd like me to. I would also do the same mods I listed in the thread if you are interested in that as well.

[Vulcan Bob]

I use it with good effect with my .452" boolits with most brands of brass. With .454" I can only use it with the "thin" RP brass.

[5Shot]

Thanks I like collet crimps, I wasn't aware they were available for pistols. Will it properly crimp 454 Casull as well?

Won't work with the 454. It uses the shell holder to push the collet up and crimp the mouth. You could make a spaced up shell holder though. I have done that by gorilla gluing a bronze thrust washer of the correct diameter onto the top of the shell holder (will need a dedicated 454 one) and then used a dremmel to open up the front to allow you to insert the shell.

[454PB]

Another method is to shorten your existing seating die. I've done a few in my lathe, but it requires carbide tools. It can also be done with a bench grinder, but must be done slowly to avoid overheating.

[Cornbread]

Cornbread, if you want to order two of these I will modify one for .454 Casull if you'd like me to. I would also do the same mods I listed in the thread if you are interested in that as well.

Yes, please! and thank you for doing that for me! I would like the same mods on them that you did in that thread as well. I will PM you for your info and have the two dies shipped to you directly.

[UNIQUEDOT]

I have a couple of the pistol collet crimp dies and they work great, but one of my favorite is the carbide crimp die with the ring removed. It's easy to remove with a small socket and or a simple punch. That die will give beautiful roll crimps. I like to use the collet die with the 454190 as it doesn't have a crimp groove.

[MT Chambers]

Just buy a good quality seating die for the .45 Colt's, don't fall for all the collet crimping die Koolaid.

[5Shot]

When loading the 454, a massive crimp is a must for good ignition. The same holds true for 45 Colt @50,000 PSI. The SD of the load will drop dramatically.

You also don't shave lead by seating and crimping in one operation.

It's not Kool-aid.

[Edster]

ya know the other option is a Redding Profile Crimp die. You could use it for both with no modifications. All brass would need to be trimmed to same length.

[geargnasher]

Another method is to shorten your existing seating die. I've done a few in my lathe, but it requires carbide tools. It can also be done with a bench grinder, but must be done slowly to avoid overheating.

I've done this also, takes some finesse and a mug of cold water, but works. For a perfect finish use 3/4" automotive heater hose and a mandrel to mount any 7/8" die in a drill press and use a block and sandpaper to perfect and square the die base again.

Gear

[5Shot]

ya know the other option is a Redding Profile Crimp die. You could use it for both with no modifications. All brass would need to be trimmed to same length.

I dumped mine in favor of the Lee. The profile crimp die, when set for a heavy crimp, will actually size down the first driving band inside the case. Instead of being nice and square it will be tapered (found this after pulling some bullets due to an incorrect powder charge). Didn't seem like a good thing.

[DougGuy]

Just buy a good quality seating die for the .45 Colt's, don't fall for all the collet crimping die Koolaid.

What about this collet crimp die is koolaid friend?

[MT Chambers]

Totally unnecessary, a properly set seating die will crimp the hell out of any cartridge, if that's what your after.......I crimp the heaviest loaded 45/70 ammo, using 555gr. flat points at top velocities, with the Redding seating die, same with all my other cals. that require a crimp.

[DougGuy]

Have you ever used one? Or do you merely assume there is no perceivable benefit in doing something different.

[Nueces]

Totally unnecessary, a properly set seating die will crimp the hell out of any cartridge, if that's what your after.......I crimp the heaviest loaded 45/70 ammo, using 555gr. flat points at top velocities, with the Redding seating die, same with all my other cals. that require a crimp.

Many roll crimp dies will not accept a cartridge loaded with a fat boolit. Older steel 45 Colt dies were made for 0.454" slugs and the crimp die made lopsided crimps on 452s. Here is where the Lee collet crimper can save the day.

[Ed K]

Not a machinist but for the 454, would it be easier to shorten a S&W 460 collet die?

http://leeprecision.com/405-win-custom-factory-crimp-die.html (Yes, it is really a link for the 460)

[DougGuy]

Totally unnecessary, a properly set seating die will crimp the hell out of any cartridge, if that's what your after.......I crimp the heaviest loaded 45/70 ammo, using 555gr. flat points at top velocities, with the Redding seating die, same with all my other cals. that require a crimp.

How would you roll crimp if you wanted to seat a smooth sided boolit with no crimp groove or you didn't want to crimp in the groove for whatever reason? Pretty hard to do with just a roll crimp but the collet crimp will force it to make a crimp groove wherever you choose.

[44man]

I load .454 on my Hornady .45 Colt dies. Even loaded the .460 on them. All they say is ".45 cal."
The crimps shown are exactly like some factory cast loads that pulled all other boolits with two shots, WAY too much and is harsh on brass. I can't imagine a boolit trying to open those things and see undersize boolits as they get sized forcing them crimps open. if you think the crimp "jumps" open I have news for you.
The .454 needs two things, case tension and a roll crimp just to the bottom of the groove and no more.

[truckboss]

I have a fcd for my 45 colt and 454,mine does not size down a .454 boolit at all.I hear so much internet **** about these it makes my head spin.Maybe I just got a good one.:veryconfu

[RobS]

I have a fcd for my 45 colt and 454,mine does not size down a .454 boolit at all.I hear so much internet **** about these it makes my head spin.Maybe I just got a good one.:veryconfu

My Lee 45 Colt FCD also does not have issues with .454 boolits and under, however I've had two 45 ACP FCD's and they sized down boolits to .450-.449 in the "post sizing final stage".

[DougGuy]

I can't imagine a boolit trying to open those things and see undersize boolits as they get sized forcing them crimps open.

You see the case mouth laid flat out straight with the sides of the case? As in NO taper at all? How can it size down a boolit if it is STRAIGHT? Answer: It can't. Therefore by looking at that fired case, you should be able to stick a .432" boolit right into the case mouth okay?

Well, LOOKIE THERE! I stopped this post to go and check, LO AND BEHOLD a .432" boolit slides RIGHT into the fired case with just a little wiggling and finger pressure!

Well golly GEE Sarge! Why are all these people cutting down something they have NEVER TRIED? "I don't know Pyle, reminds me of my grandad saying it would never catch on the first time he saw a horseless carriage!"


http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/UnrolledColletCrimp_zps81bfe664.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/UnrolledColletCrimp_zps81bfe664.jpg.html)

You can cry foul if you want to Jim, fact is, THIS CRIMP WORKS.. I have fired the Buffalo Bore "Deer Grenade" with an even more drastic collet crimp, and none pulled on this end, you musta got a bad box of boolits..