.32-20 recipes?

[plain old dave]

Got an honest old Smith and Wesson K frame recently. New enough to have the heat treated cylinder. Anybody got any particularly accurate .32WCF recipes?

[cuzinbruce]

Nice gun! I have one too. I can recommend RCBS 32-098-SWC. Herco or Unique. I don't have my notes handy for amounts. If you have a chance, slug your barrel. In my experience S&W barrels are more like .314 than the .311 usually listed for 32/20. I think they just used the tooling for 32 S&W. Winchester barrels I have slugged are mostly .311. Also S&W barrels have an odd number of grooves making it harder to measure the diameter slugging the bore.

[Guesser]

I use Ideal 3118 over 2.9 gr. Trail boss in 5 Colts and 1 Uberti. Nice soft load, easy on the old girls and fun in the newer Italian youngster. I size .313

[10mmShooter]

I run the RCBS 32-098-SWC drops at 100 grains with my alloy I size to .314 seat to COAL of 1.250 over 3.4 grains of AA#5 for 650 fps over my chrony. Works in my 100 year K frame 32WCF number 96xxx, I think heat treating started around 81xxx.

[plain old dave]

Good gouge, everyone. Keep it coming.

[rintinglen]

The RCBS 32-98 SWC over 4.4 grains of Unique, or the RCBS 32-98 WC over 3.3 grains of ww-231 work well in my S&W, the Wadcutter gets used in my Police Positive Special.

[Green Frog]

The Ideal 3118 (now designated 311008) is the original design for the 32-20/32 WCF. That's where I would start. Good heat treating or not, there is no need to "push the envelope" with your loads. It's a fun round and by its very nature is somewhat high performance, but it doesn't need any real hot rodding to enjoy it. So far I've had a couple of S&W M&Ps, a Ruger Buckeye Special Blackhawk in 32 H&R and 32-20, and a Navy Arms/Uberti Cattleman for the caliber (as well as a couple of low wall Winchesters) and I don't plan to be without one or two guns in the caliber again. Wish I still had that old Blackhawk! :cry:

Froggie

[Outpost75]

Plain Old Dave, I haven't heard anyone use "gouge" for many years, in refering to technical info or "dope".

Were you a Midshipman or Cadet? I was in M Company of the Va Tech Corps of cadets, and later at NASC class 41-71 before I left the World As We Know It, returning to this planet in '74.

[plain old dave]

I am still in... As to hotrod loads, I am a decided believer in modest handloads. Have got nearly 20 years out of some .45 Colt brass...

[OuchHot!]

I have a k frame SnW from before the heat treating period. What would "safe" pressures be for a .32-20 in this revolver? I really would rather not use BP in it. I have been using 2.5g or Red Dot behind 90g WC but have not experimented further. thanks!

[TXGunNut]

I like the 311008/3118 over a case full of FFFg. Lee has a nice TL boolit that makes a nice plinker over a few grains of 231.

[rintinglen]

RE; OuchHot!

Any of the loads listed in the 4th Edition Lyman Cast Bullet handbook should be safe. They have kept the data under 16000 CUP. They don't list any wadcutter designs though.
Your Red Dot load should be well on the safe side. A load I am trying is a SAECO 98 grain (nominal--I haven't weighed any myself) over 3.5 grains of WW-231. I have a 4 cavity that I got a while back and am casting up some more for this and my new Single Seven.

[Cherokee]

Just about everything I tired in my 32/20's works fine. The SAECO, RCBS and Lyman 3118 all mentioned above work great. I like 231 and WST for light loads with AA9 powering my hi-vel rifle loads.

[Harry O]

The strength of the gun is very important with the 32-20 because of the wide range of strengths of the different guns chambered for it.

1. All BP and light smokless handguns (Colt PPS), I limit it to 2.8gr of Trail Boss with any 100-115gr lead plain-base bullet.

2. Medium frame smokless handguns (probably the same as yours), I use 6.0gr of SR4756 with either hard cast 100-115gr plain-base bullets (311 008 or RCBS 32-98) or a 100gr Hornady XTP. I have a rechambered S&W NewModel 16 that I use this load in.

3. For recent heavy frame smokless (like single actions) or recent rifles (like Marlin), I use 12.5gr of 2400 with either a gas-check lead bullet (311 316 or similar) or a 100gr Hornady XTP.

Using a heavier load for a lower load rated gun WILL result in a bent gun or worse.

[OuchHot!]

Thanks Much! I really like the old k frame but I have Marlin and Miroku lever action rifles and a TC (.30-20) and am really paranoid about accidently swapping a rifle load into the SnW. I kept loads for it lighter than necessary, it seems.

[Green Frog]

Thanks Much! I really like the old k frame but I have Marlin and Miroku lever action rifles and a TC (.30-20) and am really paranoid about accidently swapping a rifle load into the SnW. I kept loads for it lighter than necessary, it seems.

One of the reasons the 32-20 revolver was so popular (along with 38-40 and 44-40) was the ability to swap ammo back and forth between one's saddle gun and six shooter. It would be a shame to give this up by trying to hot rod the rifle rounds (as some of the factories did back in the '30s) when you can get good performance out of rounds suitable to both. JMHO, of course! ;)

Froggie

[kir_kenix]

My old man has an early k-frame 32-20 that is a hoot to shoot with black powder. I think it is pre-heat treated, but not sure exactly where it falls serial number wise. His model is very "well used" to the point of abuse. It is not a great shooter, probably due to the oversized and pitted bore. It is a very enjoyable pistol to shoot, however, and a 90ish grain WC keeps the rabbits out of the garden. I would jump on a good example in a second if it came at a reasonable price.

Biggest fear with one of these is slipping a cartridge intended for a Marlin lever gun in the cylinder.

[TXGunNut]

I only have one 32-20 with a decent bore and an action that will handle a stout load but I enjoy shooting loads that any safe 32-20 can handle. I can see the potential of this cartridge but mine are all plinkers. None of my boolits wear GC's so I guess I'll never get to see what this cartridge can actually do. Oh well.

[Harry O]

Thanks Much! I really like the old k frame but I have Marlin and Miroku lever action rifles and a TC (.30-20) and am really paranoid about accidently swapping a rifle load into the SnW. I kept loads for it lighter than necessary, it seems.

I thought about that, too. I decided quite a long time ago on using three very different bullets in my loads. Although I experimented with other bullets (mostly cast), I settled on the following. The light load gets the RCBS 32-98 cast. The medium load gets the Hornady 100gr XTP hollow-point. The rifle load gets the Remington 100gr jacketed soft-point. Even if they get separated from their marked boxes, I know exactly what is in them.

[John Allen]

The strength of the gun is very important with the 32-20 because of the wide range of strengths of the different guns chambered for it.

1. All BP and light smokless handguns (Colt PPS), I limit it to 2.8gr of Trail Boss with any 100-115gr lead plain-base bullet.

2. Medium frame smokless handguns (probably the same as yours), I use 6.0gr of SR4756 with either hard cast 100-115gr plain-base bullets (311 008 or RCBS 32-98) or a 100gr Hornady XTP. I have a rechambered S&W NewModel 16 that I use this load in.

3. For recent heavy frame smokless (like single actions) or recent rifles (like Marlin), I use 12.5gr of 2400 with either a gas-check lead bullet (311 316 or similar) or a 100gr Hornady XTP.

Using a heavier load for a lower load rated gun WILL result in a bent gun or worse.

Harry, thanks for the post bud. I have an old colt I am going to dig out and play with.

[plain old dave]

From time to time Around Here we see early K Frame .32-20s with bulged cylinders. The end result of shooting the old .32-20 W.H.V. "For Model 92 Winchester and Similar Rifles Only" ammo in early K frames. The old W.H.V. (Winchester High Velocity) got the .32-20 a reputation in Southern Appalachia as a "hard shooting gun." Every now and again when you run across an elderly gent, they'll say something like 'them .32-20s'll shoot plum through a man.'

[Harry O]

From time to time Around Here we see early K Frame .32-20s with bulged cylinders. The end result of shooting the old .32-20 W.H.V. "For Model 92 Winchester and Similar Rifles Only" ammo in early K frames. The old W.H.V. (Winchester High Velocity) got the .32-20 a reputation in Southern Appalachia as a "hard shooting gun." Every now and again when you run across an elderly gent, they'll say something like 'them .32-20s'll shoot plum through a man.'

A lot of truth to this. I have never seen a 32-20 handgun with a bulged cylinder, but I have seen several with bulged barrels. I had an experience with shooting the "rifles only" cartridges in a handgun and it was not pretty. The very first handgun (and very first centerfire) cartridge I ever shot was in my fathers Colt Police Positive Special 32-20. Afterwards, he would let me shoot it if I bought the cartridges. They were hard to find and expensive (compared to .22LR's anyway).

I ran across a box of "rifle only" cartridges in a hardware store once. The owner said that was to keep it out of black powder handguns, not like mine. My fathers gun was made in 1931 and was definitely a smokeless powder gun. I wanted to believe it anyway, so I bought the box. I shot part of one cylinderful and it stopped rotating. I took it to a gunsmith and he diagnosed that the center shaft (ejection rod) was bent. He unbent it. The Colt PPS was probably the lightest 32-20 ever built and was just not strong enough for the heavier loads. I was very careful to fire ONLY cartridges in a box that said "safe for use in all rifles and handguns" after that. I have since inherited the gun.

I later shot the rest of the "rifle only" cartridges in an smokeless powder Colt Single Action Army that a friends father owned. It was quite a show. The "crack" was louder than anything I have heard before or since (there was no such thing as ear protectors back then -- and my lack of hearing shows that now). The recoil was not excessive, but noticeably more than standard loads. At dusk there was a fireball that extended at least 2 or 3 feet ahead of the muzzle. It did not hurt the SAA in any way. I don't believe it would have hurt a S&W K-frame either, but I have never had an early one to try.

The "rifle only" loads were easy to spot (other than what was on the box). They had a lightweight (I think it was 80gr) round-nose, hollow-point bullet. From research I have done since then, I suspect that they were loaded to somewhere between 25,000 to 28,000psi. I only go that high for modern Marlin rifles with my handloads. For heavier handguns, I stick to about 20,000 to 22,000psi. For light duty or BP guns (especially the Colt PPS), I stick to 14,000 to 16,000psi.

[Mohillbilly]

I've liked .32 when I acquired my .32 ACP pocket Colts . I next got a " Buckeye Ruger " and soon got .32 H&R single six , now it is a single seven in .327 Fed. some where along the way , I got a couple new Marlins in .32 H&R and .32-20 . Life is good .

[plain old dave]

Resurrecting an old thread. I came into the Lee mould that drops a 119gr .311. Is it pretty consistent, or should I prepare to size bullets to 311?

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[Outpost75]

Mohillbilly,

I would be interested in what loads you shoot in your Buckeye Special.

I have a .30 Carbine Ruger BH and use Starline .32-20 brass and Accurate 31-120TG in it.

199013

[dondiego]

Why size it if it already drops at .311?

[plain old dave]

Why size it if it already drops at .311?
Haven't used it. That's what the box says.

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[Green Frog]

Well, since this thread has been resurrected, I have a question. Where does the "modern" SAA copy by Uberti (in 32-20, of course) fall in the strength spectrum? It seems that modern manufacturing with modern steels of what was already a pretty stout gun SHOULD make this one OK to fire about anything you would put in any revolver in 32-20, am I right?

I'm still not planning on hot rodding it, but it would be nice to know that I have some safety margin. Informed thoughts and comments welcomed!

Froggie

[Bent Ramrod]

Elmer Keith mentioned a load of 10 gr. 2400 behind the standard 115 gr boolit to convert the .32-20 into a ".32 Magnum," for large framed pistols only. I chickened out at 9.0 gr. behind either the Ideal 3118 or the 115 gr. Group Buy Keith boolit of a few years back. That is plenty enough power for me, with accuracy, and works in both my mutant Colt Bisley and my Cimarron Uberti .32-20s. The former needs the boolits sized to 0.311" while the latter is at its best with 0.314".

The Keith boolit doesn't shoot as well as the 3118 in any of my .32-20 rifles, but it is the best performer in both revolvers, possibly because of its good crimp groove. Both revolvers digest this load without any evidence of distress. There is plenty of metal around the chambers and the bore so that, with proper cylinder timing, nothing untoward should happen, but, of course, sneaking up gradually, a tenth of a grain at a time, is prudent practice.

I won't try this load in my Army Special. Started out my .32-20 career with a Police Positive Special myself, and a load of nowhere near this intensity resulted in one of the grips cracking at the bottom. I traded it in and went looking for something with more "heft."

[Outpost75]

Elmer Keith mentioned a load of 10 gr. 2400 behind the standard 115 gr boolit to convert the .32-20 into a ".32 Magnum," for large framed pistols only...

THAT sounds like a load meant for my RUGER! Thx.

Will report back when I get a chance to try it.

[Drm50]

I've got 2 S&Ws 1905s, both heat treated era. Shot 98g SWC .312"/ 3.5g Tite Group
For Marlin 1894, Win 53 , 100gr FN- as cast, pan lubed / 6gr Unique

[prsman23]

Since we have some experience here, I have an Marlin 1894 made in 1899. Pretty sure it has a newer barrel on it in 32-20.
What would be considered safe? I used 8.1 gr of 2400 for 10 shots. Now I'm concerned that's too hot. All seemed well while shooting it.

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[Outpost75]

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010) p.173 lists #311008 #2 alloy, 1.59" OAL in Winchester .32-20 brass with WSR primer, 8.3 grains Alliant #2400, 1239 fps in 14" barrel, at 15,000cup.

[prsman23]

I went through that book yesterday and didn't see that page. Man I've been off the last few days!


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[Cherokee]

prsman23: I've got two 1889 Marlins in 32/20. They get a steady diet of 115 gr rounded flat nose bullets (similar to 3118/311008) @ .310 using 8.3 of AA9 for 1250 fps. I can hit anything up to 100 yd if I do my part. I suspect your 1894 will easily handle that as well.

For 32/20 pistols, I use a variety of bullets: Lyman 311419 @ 88 gr, Lyman 313445 @ 98 gr, RCBS 311-95 SWC @ 93 gr, NEI 31390 @ 93 gr, Lee 314-120 @ 120 gr, Lyman 3118 @ 122 gr. My favorite powder is 231 but also use WST and Unique & Herco. For all my pistols, I size at .310. I use the same variety of bullets in 30 Carbine Blackhawks but they have to be sized to .309 for chambering. My Buckeye Special requires .313 size.

[prsman23]

prsman23: I've got two 1889 Marlins in 32/20. They get a steady diet of 115 gr rounded flat nose bullets (similar to 3118/311008) @ .310 using 8.3 of AA9 for 1250 fps. I can hit anything up to 100 yd if I do my part. I suspect your 1894 will easily handle that as well.
.

Thanks! I've got the RCBS 32-98 mold so I'll see what I can come up with for that. Appreciate it.


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[plain old dave]

Any favorite recipes using the Lee 119gr? I have always liked heavy for caliber projectiles of all sorts.

[Green Frog]

plain old dave, I don't cast that specific bullet but with similar bullets I've had good luck in 327 with the Accurate Arms Powders # 7 & #9. You might want to check their website for suggestions.

Froggie

[Outpost75]

Any favorite recipes using the Lee 119gr? I have always liked heavy for caliber projectiles of all sorts.

You don't mention what rifle or revolver you are using this in, so sticking with standard pressure loads below 16,000 psi:

Safe loads for Colt Police Positive or S&W 1905 Hand Ejector,
which can also be used in Winchester 1873 or Colt Lightning are:

3 grains Bullseye,
3.5 grains Green Dot or W231,
4.2 grains Unique or Universal,
7.5 grains Alliant #2400,
9 grains IMR4227, or
10.5 grains IMR4198.

The powders slower than Unique are best as rifle loads and will leave unburned powder in the revolvers, but are safe to shoot in them.

[plain old dave]

1905 Smith and Wesson. Later gun with the heat treated cylinder, so a bit more robust than the 73 Winchester or Police Positive Special.

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[Outpost75]

My 1905 is an earlier one, hence the lighter loads, which I also use in the Colt.

In your heat treated version you can increase up to about 8.5 grains of #2400 or 11 grs. 4227 for 1000 fps.