Cast Boolits, Winchester Nickel Cases and Lee FCD

[Landshark9025]

Gun- Revolver, S&W Mod. 66 and J frame 642
Boolit - Lee 358-140 SWC and Lee TL358-158SWC. ACCOWW. Sized with a Lee push through sizer after two coats of Hi-tek. Mod. 66 was slugged as 90% of the shooting is with that.
Cartridge OAL - 1.450
Neck tension - Solid .003 - .0035. Some pushing .004.
Press - Lee Turret
Dies- Lee Four Die Set, Carbide
Cases - Winchester brass, Winchester nickel, Remington brass
Primer - CCI 500
Powder - Bullseye. 3.3 - 3.9g (3.3 only for the J frame)

Hey all,

Fairly new to loading and casting. The mold I have been using is the Lee 358-140 SWC. I have noticed that with Winchester cases, when it goes into the FCD, there is some "drag" but not real bad. This didn't happen with any of my cases with cast or platted bullets from Berry's or Extreme.

I did a bit of research and it seems that the Winchester cases are a bit thicker than Remington. Ok. Well, I picked up a couple thousand Winchester nickel plated cases and they definitely drag a good bit more. I did some more research and it appears the FCD has a tendency to swage cast boolits- especially those that might have been sized to a particular bore. There was a lot of talk about not using the FCD at all. This would be unfortunate as I would then have an extra, wasted pull of the handle to get the turret around 360 degrees.

At any rate, I am about to start working up the loads for the TL158s, and wanted to see what you all thought about using the Lee Bullet Seating die as a crimp and to take a look at the photos below and let me know what you think of that crimp. These are pretty light loads and with the neck tension I have, I wouldn't think they would move in the cylinder. Pulling them seems to take a solid 10-12 whacks with a kinetic puller.

There are a couple of photos of a boolit I pulled in case that helps. Apologies if they are small. Not sure what is going on here.

Thanks in advance.
121391

121394

121395

[725]

I understand the concern about Lee FCD's swaging the cartridge / boolit, however, in my experience that has only occurred when the case bulges out of spec. Times when the cartridge is hard to or won't even enter the charge holes in the cylinder, the Lee FCD has worked it's magic and made wayward cartridges work just fine. If you want reliability, don't fret over the Lee die. YMMV and others will chime in with different opinions. :)

[mac60]

The loaded rounds you show above look fine to me. The crimp looks great! 725 hit it right on the head. Any mention of Lee equipment is sure to draw a few comments though.:popcorn:

[bedbugbilly]

I use the Lee 4 die set - 4 hole classic turret - and the same Lee SWC as well as other designs/weights cast from Lyman molds - WC, RN - I load the Lee SWC (TL) "as cast".

I'm pretty "low tech" and I try not to "over think" it all. I use "range brass" and it has a nuber of different head stamps. I've also noticed a little "drag" on some on the FCD but I've never had a problem with the "swaging" that so many talk about. I'm shooting my 38s out of eight different revolvers and never had an issue with leading, etc. and for the type of shooting I do, they are plenty accurate.

The Lee FCD puts a "bulged" casing back in to spec. and I find it works very well for me. I also check my loaded cartridges in a cartridge gauge before they go in a box.

I've experimented with trying to seat and crimp in the same operation. All I shoot is cast and I personally have never been very happy with it. I find that seating and crimping in two different operations is a much better way for me to go. I also load 38 Colt Short, 38 Colt Long and 357 for a Handi Rifle. The same goes for those cartridges.

If the "drag" really bothers you on the Winchester casings, I suppose you could switch and not use it but I'm assuming you have a bunch of it and it would be a shame to not use it. I really don't think what you are seeing/feeling when running it through the Lee FCD is going to cause you any problem. I think your loaded cartridges look pretty nice and they should shoot just fine.

BTW - When I first started casting for the 38s, I was not too "sure" about the TL design but bought the Lee TL SWC to give it a try. I tumble lube all my 38s in Alox/Paste Wax. The Lee TL SWC has proven to be one of the most accurate boolits out of my 38 revolvers as well as my 357 Handi-Rifle.

Good luck to you and enjoy!

[Landshark9025]

Thanks, guys. I am going to try the FCD again tonight. Personally, I prefer it...but I can't say why. Just seems to make sense to seat and crimp in two different operations. The cartridges that drug a lot through the FCD were the 358-140s with traditional lube groove. Maybe the 158TLs won't be as bad.

I suppose if I measure them before and after they go into the FCD, if they are the same then no harm, no foul. I just didn't like the "bumpity bump" and some of them seemed like it took more force than it should. I like smooth. And with all the talk here of "fit, fit, fit", anything that messes with my boolit size after it has been sized makes me wonder.

And as for Lee equipment, yes, I know they get a bad rap and if I had bought a single stage in the beginning, I'd likely be buying a LnL progressive now, but I am sure there are a ton of guys like me who did the math and came away with "First 1,000 rounds and I break even." There's a lot of guys who cast and reload that would have stayed on the sidelines were it not for Lee. My wife and I shoot a lot more...A LOT MORE...because I can cast and reload.

[geargnasher]

I won't use a Lee pistol-caliber FCD. If you find it necessary to "correct" bulged cases or the occasional oversized bullet, you will likely ruin case tension and introduce inconsistencies in your ammo. If you are having such issues without the FCD, I suggest fixing those (shouldn't happen if pushing all the bullets through a Lee sizer before loading) and checking finished ammo with a drop-in case gauge. If it works for you for making a nice crimp (and they do make nice crimps), then by all means use it, but don't count on it for quality control. I wonder if the expanded case mouths are what's the issue? Maybe adjust the crimp portion of your seating die to bump the mouths a little before going to the FCD?

Many cast bullet loads seem to work best with "oversized" bullets, and the carbide sizing sleeve is designed to work with jacketed bullet dimensions plus normal case thickness, so it can in many instances squish down brass and bullet together and make the cast bullets smaller than optimal while also disturbing case tension on the bullet. If this is not happening for you with most of your rounds and they shoot fine and don't lead the bore, then you don't have a problem except for those few that do end up too fat to pass the carbide sleeve without getting "sized down".

If you're worried about the extra, "wasted" pull of the handle, just get a different crimp die and seat only in station three and crimp only in station for with the seater plug out, similar to what you're doing now. I prefer to modify my own seater plugs with epoxy putty and a bullet nose so that the bullets are seated exactly straight in the cases and no off-center bulges exist. This is one rare case where I find the two-diameter Lyman M-type expanders useful (helps revolver bullets start straight in the case if adjusted properly), and it just so happens that NOE has started producing a wide variety of M-type expanders for the Lee dies and after popular request even makes them with the powder-thru feature for use with Lee powder measures. Might check that out in the "Vendor Sponsor" area.

If you just have a little drag with thicker cases, and aren't really killing the case tension on those, then there shouldn't be any issue at all.

Gear

[fouronesix]

Pretty much what gear said. ^

If you are flaring the mouth a little too much then you might be feeling the drag when seating or crimping. Try to minimally flare the mouth and just enough that a bullet base starts without hanging up on the mouth. The less the flaring the better. A true neck expander is usually a better way to go but may add one step in reloading. I don't use a turret or progressive so you'll have to decide what works best while yielding the best ammo.

The Lee FCD for pistol is simply a carbide ring that slides down the mouth and applies a crimp. That sliding can be problematic also- and not too much different from using the crimp shoulder in the seater die. It looks like the crimp groove in those bullets are plenty long and large enough. So with proper seater adjustment, it shouldn't be a problem using the seater die shoulder to slightly roll crimp during the seating operation.

Another thing to try is to load up 5 or 6 without any crimp. Load them in the cylinder, fire one check the others for bullet pull with a caliper. Continue this until the whole cylinder is fired. The main reason for a crimp in a revolver is to prevent bullet pull during recoil. If they are not pulling out after a cylinder's worth of recoil then only a very minimal amount of crimp should be used. The best crimp is usually the minimal crimp that will prevent the bullet moving during recoil. Any kind of too much crimp (or flaring in preparation for that matter) is not needed and can lead to other problems like shorter brass life, wrinkling of neck, actual lessening of neck tension, swaging down bullet, excessive scraping of bullet shank during firing, etc.

[Landshark9025]

Thanks, Gear. What you were saying is what I had read and made me a tad concerned. Def. don't want undersized Boolits. It makes sense the FCD was designed for jacketed. Didn't occur to me. I know...Mr.Obvious award. Your suggestion about using the seating die to take the bell out is a good one. I wondered about that, but on this batch, it didn't seem to make much difference if I ran them through the FCD die multiple times. Those that drug, drug very little but always did it.

At any rate, I loaded up 40 of the TL 358-158SWC tonight for testing on Saturday. Most of them were .3775 or .378 going into the FCD. All were .3755 coming out. These seem to have less drag and "bumpity bump". Which is odd to me as they were sized using the same Lee sizing die and use the same Hi Ten coating.

It would appear my only option is to test these, try to determine what load holds the most promise, then make a few hundred and shoot those. Then do the same thing with using the seating die to crimp. That should give me an idea. Looks like I will need more lead.

[geargnasher]

You're welcome, but you make it easy because you research, reason things out, measure stuff that seems to need measuring, and know what questions to ask.

2-2.5 thousandths is more than "a little", personally I'd ditch the FCD and use something else, but I'll also introduce you to a saying from one of our older members that may be appropriate: "It only matters if it does." --Bass Ackwards. If what you're doing now gives you results that work to your liking, then no need to fuss over a little case swage. BUT, you know one thing to look at changing if your bullets creep out and lock up the cylinder or if you get lots of vertical stringing on the target. Crimp alone does little to retain the bullet in the case, it's just icing on the cake, it's the friction caused by elasticity of the brass and the interference fit against the bullet that does most of the work making bullets stay put under recoil.

Your press makes a lot of leverage right at the point that the FCD ring is doing the sizing and that can fool you, but you were smart and actually measured what was happening, to that tells the tale. Brass is more elastic than your bullets, so when you crush the brass and bullets down together, the brass "springs back" more than the bullet does, thus reducing the "tension" holding the bullet. Get an accurate measurement of the inside of your FCD ring, compare that to your .3755" measurement, and you'll see what I mean. If the final neck tension isn't sufficient, or is inconsistent, you have problems. With only a few thousandths interference fit to begin with, it's easy to "kill the tension" with the FCD, even if it isn't crushing your bullets down small enough to cause gas blow-by and leading problems in the bore.

Evidently it's not the bellmouth doing the dragging if they still drag after being crimped, but it never hurts to adjust your seating die to straighten the flare just a little to help it funnel into the dedicated crimp die, especially on a turret press or progressive and when using the FCD or other die with a small bottom entrance.

Something I didn't comment on before but saw in one of your pictures is to suggest trimming your cases to even them out (essential for uniform crimps) and also to square up the mouths. Maybe you're doing that already but you didn't notice you mentioning it and one of those is crooked, badly. Revolver brass is notorious for having wongo case mouths from the factories, and once you trim it all the same and chamfer it it's quite a few reloads before you have to mess with it again. I like the dandy and super-cheap trimmer and lock stud set Lee makes that you can use in an electric drill, but get an RCBS or similar chamfering tool if you don't already have one, the Lee one is pure junk.

Good luck, and let us know how those you have loaded up shoot.

Gear

[Landshark9025]

Thanks again, Gear.

No, I have not been trimming pistol brass. I bought one of the Lee trimmers a while back for 38spl, but it didn't touch the case mouth on the cases I tried it on(don't remember which brand). So I never tried again. Just now I resized three of these Winchester nickel cases and doing it(operating trimmer and shell holder) by hand the cutters just touched the case mouths a bit. Not all the way around, so you are right. They are wonky. I'll resize a hundred or so tonight and see how they do in a drill. If it doesn't trim the case all the way around, I'll have to try a different trimmer. I am thinking the additional leverage might help.

I doubt you can tell from the photo, but the rim isn't shiny all the way around. They trim to 1.148. Turning it in approx 1/4 turn increments gets me 1.1485.

121489

At any rate, looks like I got some trimmin', shootin' and loadin' to do.

[captaint]

Again, what Gear said. Now, I'm NOT being a smart a$$ here, but please consider getting a good loading manual - not a manual that lists millions of loads - get one that explains the entire process from step one. Back when I started reloading, there were no computers, no online anything. We HAD to get a good manual and read the whole process part. I have never used a factory crimp die. We actually should never need one - really. If you do, something else is amiss - like Gear said. Consider going over the entire process from jump and you'll have a better understanding of what should and what should not be. I started with the Speer #9. It explains the entire process very well. Just my .02.... Mike

[mdi]

In my opinion, and it seems to go along with the "seasoned" reloaders here, ferget the FCD and get a dedicated crimp die, especially for a revolver. I have been reloading .38 Special since '69, and .44 Magnums since '86 and if the case needs to be "ironed out" something is wrong. Learning to discover the reason for a chambering or bulging problem and fixing it is waaaaay better than just covering it up. Bulges and/or crimping problems aren't fixed by an FCD, just hidden. Out of curiosity I got a .44 Magnum FCD and it ruined my carefully handcrafted cast and sized bullets resulting in excessive leading. It now resides in a landfill some where in Southern Oregon...

[chsparkman]

Interesting. I have had good results using the FCD in revolver calibers, but just the opposite in semi-auto calibers. If you're looking for a good alternative to the FCD, try the Redding profile crimp die. They apply a nice roll crimp. When new mine did scratch the brass slightly so I polished the inside with Flitz and now they're a dream.

[Landshark9025]

Hey, Captaint - no worries. I am certainly not interpreting you as a "smart a$$" or harsh- just know my responses are not meant to be argumentative. Just adding more info for clarification. I see newbies being arrogant jerks, so just want to diffuse that right off the bat.
What you suggest is valid and I see it mentioned on boards often. I actually have three manuals, Lyman 49(which I bought prior to ordering anything), Lyman Bullet Caster's(which I got before the furnace and mold) and Lee(came with something). And yes, I read them. :smile: I don't recall any of them saying any specific about this issue with Lee FCD. I could certainly be wrong and will double check tonight when I get home.

Before too many folks pile on, I probably should clear up a misconception in the thread here. It was never my intention to use a FCD to "fix" a bad case or one that didn't chamber well. To be honest, that never occurred to me. I thought the FCD was for just that- applying a crimp on the top of the case that will be similar to the type put on originally. In my mind, the FCD should only come into play in the last 1/32" or so of a case and the purpose of the crimp is, as those above have stated, to keep the boolit from working out when the others are fired. Hence my question. With the loaded 358-140SWC, it goes through the die harder than I would like and based on the above, and what I have read, it MIGHT be impacting neck tension. I had read where it could be swaging the boolit and in the absence of someone standing there with more experience, there isn't an easy way to know. But, it sounds like it is a real possibility rather than an irrational fear, so we need to find out. I think the only way to know for sure is to load a bunch with a crimp applied by the FCD and a bunch with a similar crimp applied via the seating die or a different crimp die and see if there is a difference. That said, its pass through the die may not be considered abnormal by someone with more experience with this like Bedbugbilly. He may pull the press handle and say "Suck it up, Alice. That's normal." I don't know, but I think we can test it.

So, here's the plan:
Currently low on 358-140s, so we will have to table that for now until I cast up a bunch. I'll test the 358-158s I have loaded with the FCD and see what happens. I'll also load up a bunch similar without the FCD and see if there is a difference. I don't think it will be that drastic as these didn't seem to "drag" much. And correct me if I am wrong, but a change in case dimension of .0005 or less likely won't impact much, correct? In the meantime, for those where I use the FCD, I'll change the setting on the seating die from the way the instructions read to lower to remove the bell prior to the crimp stage just to take that out of the equation.

Then I will cast up a batch of 358-140s and do it again. That'll take a couple of weeks to cast, let 'em age, etc.

Thanks, and please keep the comments coming. Still odd that this only happens to the 140s when they were both cast from the same alloy, coated with the same lube in pretty much the same way and run through the same sizer. But that will be a different thread.

[geargnasher]

You actually measured what the carbide post-sizing sleeve in the FCD was doing to your cartridges, no need to speculate, just go shoot what you've loaded and see how they do.

Your numbers indicated .0020" to .0025" diameter was lost to the sizing ring in the FCD in post #8, paragraph 2. If that .3755" was a typo and was supposed to be .3775" for final size of all cartridges around the bullet area, then you have at most five tenths sizing going on and probably don't need to worry about it.

One thing that is frustrating about electronic media is that nobody else can reach through your computer monitor, crank your press handle, and know right away if your setup "feels" right or not.

Gear

[Landshark9025]

Ahh, ****. I didn't even see that. Gear- you are right on the typo. It should be .3775. I thought your comment in post 9 about two and a half thousands had to do with neck tension not my fat fingers.

Sorry for the confusion and I'll post results this weekend.


You actually measured what the carbide post-sizing sleeve in the FCD was doing to your cartridges, no need to speculate, just go shoot what you've loaded and see how they do.

Your numbers indicated .0020" to .0025" diameter was lost to the sizing ring in the FCD in post #8, paragraph 2. If that .3755" was a typo and was supposed to be .3775" for final size of all cartridges around the bullet area, then you have at most five tenths sizing going on and probably don't need to worry about it.

One thing that is frustrating about electronic media is that nobody else can reach through your computer monitor, crank your press handle, and know right away if your setup "feels" right or not.

Gear

[Landshark9025]

Ok, so I went out this weekend and ran the loads through the Chrono. All were shot with the previously mentioned S&W 66 .357 from a rest. The one major flaw I made was setting the target at the 25 yard line. In previous threads I had gotten grief for using the 15 yard line as it was too close to tell anything significant. Well, 25 yards was too far for my eyes to see well enough to create groups. I should have moved it, but I thought I would give it a go. That said, from what I could tell, the 3.3 gave the best groups and the non-factory crimp die was the better of the two. But again, I am discounting the accuracy portion of the test for now. I did not experience any leading and after the test I shot another box of 358-140 SWC loaded with 3.3g Bullseye at 15 yards and the accuracy was about what I normally see albeit a tad more vertical stringing than I am used to but that could have easily been my fault. There were no pressure signs anywhere and the cases fell out normally.

I also had a glitch with the chrono and missed five shots of one group and had a couple of errors here and there. I shot a total of eight, ten shot groups with powder charges of Bullseye from 3.0 to 3.9g(+P Max). From what I could tell, it looks like the lower charges did better WITH the FCD, while the higher ones did better withOUT. At any rate, most of them didn't look to be that different to me, but I will let you guys tell me. When I set the seating die to crimp, I did it so they looked as similar as possible to the end result of the FCD.

My next thought is to repeat this with trimmed cases(have not had a chance to do that) and the targets set to 15 yards where I can get a better aim. Also hope to register a consistent 10/10 on the chrono.

Link to the actual chrono results:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JbVgaNrSmiVeDBhqPI5cc2KUo2LeW1Kg8S2huyGYIDg/edit?usp=sharing

Image of the spreadsheet:
121975

Looking forward to hearing if you guys would consider these (somewhat incomplete) results significant and if they tell us anything or if they go in the category of "interesting, but let's wait to see it with targets you can see and hit".

If there is anything else these chrono results tell you, I would be interested in hearing that as well.

Thanks,

[44man]

I would toss the FCD and listen to Gear. The ring will ruin case tension if it does any sizing at all. Some punch the ring out of the die.
There is zero advantage in seating and crimping separate, just seat and crimp in the seat die.
I have used a Redding or Hornady crimp die for jacketed but cast will not go through the dies. The boolits are larger. Yet there was no advantage even with jacketed.
Every cast boolit I load will be crimped in the seat die.
I do not use a chronograph when working loads, to chase numbers that have nothing to do with accuracy just distracts you from shooting best. You can read a target to see what is going on.
I have posted in very extensive amounts on how to load for a revolver. One of the most important items is case tension must be exactly the same from one piece of brass to another. To mix brass with different thicknesses just adds to the fun.
Tension is what controls burn and does the most to keep a primer from moving a boolit early, crimp is mostly for recoil so you need enough tension but most important is all are the same.
Experiments with tension has shown group size is still good with a little loose or tight but POI can be 10" different. I can measure seating pressure and sort loads. With most die sets I can sort to over 10 or 12 piles on the bench, each with a different POI.
I have gone 100% to Hornady dies since I get the most even tension and the straightest boolit seating.
Even using the press handle and feeling one boolit go in easier then another means they will NOT hit the same place. Seating and crimping should be done very slow and easy. FEEL what you are doing. A progressive will remove your touch with the load.
A good turret press is good and even the cheap Lee works but remove the stupid auto turn rod. Put good dies in it.

[TheDoctor]

I sometimes use the pistol fcd for crimping. If I feel it bump the case, it tells me something was wrong to begin with, and that round gets tossed in the plinking ammo pile. Rarely happens, but I have noticed that rounds that would contact the sizing ring would also not drop into the chamber. I have noticed that since I have started using M dies to expand, my success rate has gone up a lot! Using the M die, and the Hornady seating die adjusted to not quite crimp, I do not get bumps with the fcd anymore. Might try to seat and crimp at the same time with this setup, prior to getting the M dies, it did not well for me.

[44man]

Doctor, the "M" die can remove the tension needed in a revolver. It is an animal that like a bronc, needs tamed. You have the best with Hornady, just seat and crimp at the same time. I hope you have the Hornady expander and cast tough enough to resist the seating. The expander was made for jacketed so you must think that way. Cast must also do the final expansion and brass should never size a boolit.

[MtGun44]

Lee pistol FCD is not your friend for cast boolits. Listen to gear, save me typing pretty
much exactly the same advice.

In revolver boolits with a prominent crimp groove, seating and crimping in the same
die can work very well indeed, and I do it most of the time with these mold designs.

For semi-autos, most of which have little or no crimp groove - do not do this - get a
separate - NON-FCD taper crimp die and make the crimp actually TAPER, not just
remove the flare as is often recommended. I try for about .002 to .004 of actual
crimp beyond what the case measures a 1/16" or so closer to the rim.

And you are right, 15 yds doesn't tell you much, 25yds is pretty much a minimum if you
are actually trying for accurate ammo. Many would argue that 50 yds is a minimum, but
I only test my "accurate at 25 yds" loads at this range, and only for guns that might actually
be used at that range.

Bill

[geargnasher]

If you REALLY want to know how good your loads are, shoot at 100 yards. I've been amazed at not only how lousy, but at times how well my pistols can shoot at 100 yards. My wife's Model 36 Smith will keep a milk jug rolling at 100 yards, and my Model 29 will shoot smaller than the 4MOA red dot easily, but I have to have crimp, case tension, alloy, primer, and powder in sync first. That case tension has to be the number one thing to get right.

I learned a LOT from 44Man right after joining this forum, he took a lot of time to answer my revolver accuracy questions and led me straight on my first magnum handgun optic (Ultra Dot), and also got me into using Felix bullet lube. Shooting at longer ranges to test your work is also one of his excellent pointers. I'll never forget his first post to me, short and simple: "Liquid Alox works best under your fenders". YUP.

Gear

[Landshark9025]

Thanks all. It looks like no FCD on the cast boolits is the way to go. Eliminates the worry about the drag and I can get the crimp the same. And if I want to check accuracy out past 15-20 yards, well, then a scope is going to be in order for sure.

Bill: any recommendations on the crimp die for 9mm? I'll be adding that to the mix at some point. Likely starting with either plated or store bought boolits first.

thanks,

[44man]

There is a group of us here old as dust on the moon! :bigsmyl2: We all have vision problems and sights have a furry Grinch on them and he dances!
A scope is best to wring out a revolver but is a sad choice for the field if you have dim light or no rest.
The Ultra Dot found a home with me since all my revolvers are for deer. Some of the very expensive dots will hold up to recoil but I can't afford to pay more for one then the gun cost.
using the right target, you can group just as good with a dot. I still need my glasses for the dots because you can't focus them but nothing works better for deer.
Always buy the straight 4 min dot and not one with adjustable pictures since they change POI with a different picture. I don't see the 4 min actually covering 4" at 100, seems smaller. No problem holding on a pop can at 100, I love 3D targets over paper anyway. Little water bottles and cans of water are sure more fun and easier to aim at.
For the nine, the seat die should taper crimp, I would not buy extra.

[MtGun44]

I use a taper crimp as a separate die on all my semiauto pistol loads.
The overwhelming majority are done in Dillon 550Bs, so there is no
separate handling, but the crimp is a separate operation. Even the
ones done on a single stage press use a separate TC die. Lack of or
inadequate TC has been the cause behind the overwhelming majority
of failure to close problems for new shooters learning to load for their
semiautos - I advised a great number over the years when I was
running an IPSC club in the 80s, 90s and later, and got to where this
was THE first thing I asked about, and many looked blank and said
"So, what is a taper crimp die? I don't have that in my die set."

RCBS and Hornady make a 9mm taper crimp die, Lyman makes a 4 die set
which includes a separate taper crimp die. Without a good crimp groove
you do not want the boolit moving as you crimp the neck into the boolit,
as is necessary with most semiauto boolit designs which have no crimp
groove. This is almost certainly because different semiautos will require
different seating depths to feed properly.

If the boolit is moving as the crimp is formed a small ridge of lead is
pushed up ahead of the case mouth and this can be an issue in consistent
headspace, and in many cases lead slivers can build up and cause
problems in functioning. Many will say that you only want to remove
the flare, but in my experience this will leave you open for a low
frequency (relatively rare) occasional failure to close, where making
a actual taper of a few thousandths (I shoot for .004) will completely
eliminate this problem. IPSC has no alibis so we really were pushing
to try to get 100% reliability, 99.9% wasn't good enough, although
for most shooters, not in competition, it is fine. For us, we were
running at least a thousand rounds a month, so with 99.9% we were
likely to trash a stage per month, NOT fun, and maybe it was more
like 99.8% - hard to nail down those kind of numbers.

Bill

[44man]

I will go along with Bill on this. He knows more about pistols then I do since I do not own any. Wish my SS would allow a good 1911 but not to be unless I sell something and I have nothing I want to part with.
I have built up 1911's so accurate as to be scary for friends. I love the gun but never had a real use for one. I am lucky that I get to shoot many. Then to find brass in the weeds drives me nuts! :veryconfu

[Landshark9025]

Thanks, Bill. I'll make sure to get a separate taper crimp die for 9mm when the time comes. While not doing any matches any time soon, anything I can do to promote reliability is important.