Wolf primers

[Lloyd Smale]

well i picked up a case each of lg pistol std, lg pistol mag and small pistol std I havent been able to shoot because of my back but i gave a brick each to my buddy, who by the way does alot more through testing then i would anyway. So far hes had pretty good luck with the small pistol primers. He said they go off very easily da and have given him excellent std. deviation. Now to the large. The large standards seem to be crap. He can even get good deviation readings using powders as fast a 231 and had hang fires with unique believe it or not and standard deviations are running near 300fps. He also tried the lg. mags. He used wc820 and 2400 and said hes having about the same luck as with the stds. Extreem spreads of over 300 fps. He said they seem to be substantialy milder then wws. We were talking last night and i brought up the fact that maybe its not that there so mild of a primer for spark as it is that they may just be a poor primer for quality control and either the mixtures arent right or there not consistant. He had one hangfire with the mags using 820 that was so drasticly slow that he actually moved his gun and took out one of the sky screens on his ohler. Hes going to fool around and see if the mag pistols will light off fast pistol powders well. That should show if there just mild or there junk. It sure seemed like a dream come true to find primers for 80 bucks a case but if there going to act like this there a waste of money.

[dubber123]

Thanks for the report Lloyd, sure sounds like a case of "too good to be true", unfortunately.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Here's some additional information which may be affecting things. This is from Widener's website: Wolf primers look great. They are made in Russia and packaged in 100 rd trays in 1000 sleeves and 5000 cases. They are packed anvil up so no "primer flipping" required.

"The WOLF Standard Small Rifle Primers have an all COPPER CUP, which is a little more sensitive than the brass cup magnum primers. If you are loading for an AR15 or Military Style semi auto rifle, or are loading high pressure cartridges in any other type of rifle ,we recommend you use the Magnum Small rifle primers. Both primers use the same amount of compound. The only difference is in the cup hardness.

Our testing of these primers indicate that they are very consistant when shooting for groups. Of course there is more to a load than just the primer. Try them out and see for yourself."

And a link:

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=7277&dir=278|284|737

And here's a link from another board's discussion of the Wolf primers:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=332373&highlight=Wolf+primers

Most discussion I've seen on these primers is positive, so I'm wondering if the issue may have something to do with the gun/primer match up aka hard vs. soft primers vs. soft gun springs. Things to look at. I saw on a couple of posts David Tubbs liked the large rifle primers enough he bought 70,000 of them. That's a pretty good endorsement.

Dave

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Boys, this is my experience with Wolf.
When I recently ran out of Federal LP primers, which I use in .45LC and .38-40 for cowboy action shooting, I bought 5K of Wolf. The only problem I had, was difficulty seating the primers in my Dillon SDB. Worse than with CCI's, I had high primers in over 20% of the loaded rounds, which I had to finish seating by hand.

Shooting, was another story. I'm using very light loads in my Ruger New Vaquero's, (4.25gr. Bullseye behind a 160gr. bullet) which, being barely a stable load, is very sensitive to variations in things such as crimp pressure and primer uniformity. The Wolf primers performed perfectly, there being no "Mouse Fart" rounds fired, which are associated with poor powder ignition. These guns have had reduced power springs installed.

In my "Hot" long range "pistol caliber" Cowboy rifle loads (11.0gr. Unique behind a 250gr. bullet) in my EMF Hartford Rossi '92, groups remained the same excellent 2"@ 100yds. I've also worked over this rifle, which included lightening the springs. I load these rounds in a single stage press, and prime with an RCBS hand primer, so I'll save the Wolf primers for this.


Morgan

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess what makes me really wonder is that 231 is easy to light off and the standards wouldnt do even that consistantly and although 820 isnt the easiest to light its easier then 110 and they wouldnt do 820. He tried them in both the 44 mag and 45 colt with a variety of charge weights so he covered about all the bases. Its definately possible that i got a bad batch but what makes me wonder is that neither the lg std or the lg mags worked well. I have to wonder about the guys that are bragging on them. Ive had loads with extream spreads of 300 fps that still shot 1.5 inch groups at 25 yards. where its really shows is out at 100 or more. I know my buddy and a few others know him here and theres probably nobody in the country that has more experience in loading and shooting handguns and is any more thorough in load developement. He has enough data stored at his house that a guy could make a library out of it. He did say though that the small pistol stand. primers seem to do pretty well. I have to wonder if like Dave said there using the same primer mix for there std. and mag primers and just changing the cups. Im here to tell you guys that im more upset about this then anyone and wanted them to work more then about anyone because i use a pile of them and it would be a big savings for me. But ive got to call it like i see it and tell anyone buying them to buy them with there eyes open. To me the agravation isnt worth the savings. Unless they change them substantialy i wont buy anymore of the large pistol ones. Hang fires are not Cool!!! bad things can happen when you have them!!

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Lloyd, Evidently, they've got a big problem with QC. Some users insist they have no problem with primer seating, while mine are usless in my Dillon. I didn't try them in my Hornady ProJector where I load the .38-40's, but I'm sure they would give me the same trouble, both presses having a weak priming system.

Either your problem with ignition, or mine with seating, is the norm, but either way, I'll never buy them again, and just count myself lucky that at least I can use them by hand priming.

Just went down to the shop to check the lot number, to compare with yours. It's #4-07. Kind of short, looks more like a date of mfg. than a lot #.

Morgan

[Lloyd Smale]

storming out right now morgan but ill take a look tomarrow and see what the lot number is. Ill use them up for shooting at steel and plinking but like you wont by more.

[Chunky Monkey]

I am fairly new to this forum I usually check in to see if there is anything useful to me. This time there was. Thanks for the info Lloyd and Morgan. I reload primarily for 44 mag and 45 acp and have always used Federal or CCI. Local shops around me don't carry Wolf so I was thinking bout making an order. Of course I was going to order enough to make the Hazmat charge work for me. I think I'll hold off on that for now after reading this. Thanks again guys!:-D

[Ken O]

I have only tried the Wolf large rifle primers, and they are as good as it gets. They are a little larger than other brands, so they take a little more effort to seat, which might be the problem some are having. But this helps when for the Palma loads in .308 at 3000 fps the primer pockets tend to get a little loose.

They are a very popular primer in long range and Palma matches which are shot at 800-1000 yards and the SD is very important.

[Lloyd Smale]

where the package said lot no. it was 1-06 and was the same on all three cases

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Lloyd, 1-06 & 4-07 ? I think those are dates, don't you? I guess you can use dates as lot #'s, I do it with purchase orders.
Morgan

[Jon K]

I have not had any of the experiences of Morgan & Lloyd. Like Ken O wolf primers have tested and shown to be more consistant. My previous post http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=23998&highlight=wolf+primers. Add to that one more gun w/2 barrels tested T/C G2 204 smaller sd, es and smaller group. Have yet to have a primer not ignite. The Marlin 1894 CL and T/C have lightened springs. Lot #1-04. All are seated w/Lee auto prime in WW,R-P & Starline brass. Group testing is side by side 100, 150 & 200m.

Next week I will start testing Large Rifle Primers in 2 - Win 94, 1- Win 64, & Marlin 1895 CB.

I would say that I am still in the testing stages, until I have tested in all my guns. The last to be tested, if all works, will be BPCR guns. I use Fed GM215M, 105M, Win WLR, WSR, and CCI BR2.
But with the ouutrageous pricing of late, I may switch, if I can get equal performance at a fraction of the price. I am not self professed "Cheap", and I will use whatever will perform best day in and day out.

Jon

Morgan & Lloyd,
Maybe mainsprings are too light, and may need a real soft cup like Federal to ignite.

Jon

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Jon, If you read my post, you'd see they worked perfectly, as far as accuracy. They were just too hard to seat in my Dillon SDB, leaving about 20% of the rounds with high primers. Bought 5k, saving them for loading in single stage presses. When the weather warms, I'll fire them over my Oehler 35P and report SD's, which I'm sure are very low, considering the accuracy I'm getting.

Wouldn't buy any more based on Lloyds experiences, until I hear more input from poeple using different lots.
Morgan

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Morgan,

I posted a few questions over on another forum I visit. Here's the responses I received:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=338758

Dave

[Jon K]

Morgan,
I did read your post, that's why I specified my method of installation- Lee Auto Prime, and the brass used, which all went in with no problems.

I only posted my findings as factual as possible, in my applications. Also intend to test Large Rifle Prmers in my guns for my shooting applications.

Can't hurt anything by testing them, when cost for 2 bricks of BR2 or GM215M = 1 case price Wolf. If they don't perform, I'll keep buying what works.

Jon

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Dave, Thanks, checked the site out.

Jon, I was responding to your comment about my mainsprings, since my only complaint was about seating in my Dillon SDB.

At a match, it's really disconcerting to have to pry the cylinder out of your SAA at the loading table, because a high primer jammed against the recoil shield. Between my son and I, we shoot about 1000rds. a month in competition, and can't afford the time to load single stage.
Morgan

[yarro]

The first batch that came in from Wolf were match primers and I kick myself for not getting more. The recent import, while it came from the same factory, is the same stuff that goes in their normal ammo and I kick myself for buying any as the quality is really inconsistent. The first couple thousand that I used were fine. The next were a problem as some were obviously large in diameter and would hang up in my primer tube on the Dillon, some taller than they should be and some did not go off when hit with a Ruger GP-100 with extra power hammer spring in it. So they have the same quality that I have experienced with their ammo.

-Yarro

[Duckdog]

I also use them with zero problems. I also use them in my steel shot loads for duck hunting and have had excellent results. I talked to Alliant Powder and they said it was OK to consider them as Win 209, and consider their primers in general to be in the middle of the road, as far as power, pressure changes, etc.

I will keep buying thme, as they are a heck of a lot cheaper.

[38 Super Auto]

I loaded up a couple hundred with no problems. Have not had a chance to shoot any yet. I am using small primers ifor 38 Super. The cup seems a little thicker than Win or Fed small primers. Some additional force was needed to seat primers on my 550Bravo, but not significantly more.

[jonk]

All I've used thus far were the small pistol primers; those worked great. I have some large pistol and large rifle as well; I don't anticipate problems, but a side by side accuracy test seems in order.