Putterbutt loading the .358 LSWC versus wadcutters with Universal for my sixguns

[Tallbald]

OK so I'm down to maybe an ounce of Trail Boss, my favorite characteristic powder. Light, fluffy, easy to load and makes me feel good all around. Like Mama's hot whole wheat bread right from the oven. And thanks again folks for helping straighten out my confusion about "which is it I have" in a 15 year old can of Universal powder, given the change in what people call it in the last so many years.
Before I was bitten by the casting bug months back, I had recently bought 1000 Missouri Bullet Company 18 Brinnell ,158 grain LSWC to go with the 500 Magnus 158 grain LSWC I bought in 1999 at the same time as the pound of Universal powder. That's a lotta slugs and powder for me to use up.
Now that I am forced to begin using the Universal because I can't find Trail Boss, I'm revisiting load data. My LSWC can be used in the .38 Special or .357 Magnum cases I have of course, and starting loads listed are in the 750 to 800 FPS range on each. Slow is just fine for me. Love it as long as I can find a really accurate slug/powder combination. Here are a couple of questions though. I know wadcutters were developed for target shooting to ease scoring, and they were meant to be slow but accurate. All I have is LSWC. If I load putterbutt WC speed rounds with the LSWC slugs, will the attributes I read about for the LSWC design not happen because it is maybe meant for higher speeds than 750 to 800 FPS? Just like I read some airplanes aren't efficient and handle poorly until they reach a certain minimum speed, does the LSWC need to be at a minimum FPS before it really shines? I hate to waste good lead on slow loads that won't perform because they aren't moving fast enough. I reckon aerodynamics and barrel twist rate come into play here.
Also, with starting loads of Universal and the low velocities, is powder position in the case going to be a real issue bearing on any accuracy I can hope to get? I know I can work my way up from the starting load, but again I prefer low recoil for a number of reasons.
Thanks. Don

[Blackwater]

What caliber are you shooting? Likely a .38 Spec. or .357. My experience has been that SWC's shoot better loaded a bit higher than the target WC's. Look at how deeply the full WC's seat in the case. This restricts the available powder space, so any powder charge you use is confined more, and thus, pressures are higher than they'd be with a SWC that's seated out farther. This means you have to use a tad more powder with the SWC's than with the full WC's to get the same speed and similar pressure. Move to the .357 and you have yet more space for powder under the bullet, and again, you have to use a tad (not a lot, but a bit) more powder there to equal what you'd get from loading the same bullet in a shorter .38 Special case. Make sense?

Now, as to recommendations, I don't have my manuals handy, but I think if you load somewhere in the neighborhood of 4.5 gr. Universal with the 158 SWC's in .38, and something like 6.5 gr. in a .357, you'll probably get good results. Remember, though, every gun is a law unto its own self, and different guns of the same make and model can want different loads to produce the best groups. You've just got to experiment, and there's really no way to shortcut that. Hope this helps.

[Tallbald]

Blackwater yes you're right. .38 Special and .357 Sorted cases. CCI small pistol primers (#500). Don
** Read some more. Miss Penny and I are setting here at the kitchen table (Our House Central).
I do see the points you make. I have plenty of .38 Special cases, and based on what you've shared, I am inclined to use the .38 Special exclusively for the LSWC. I can use those in each of our revolvers, and try them single loaded in our Ruger 77/357 carbine.
I really wish I had known I would begin casting. It's more rewarding to me personally of course to shoot home brews. But I have these beautiful commercial slugs and I'll use them gratefully.
So. begin as I've been taught her with the recommended start load in my manual for .38 Special 158 grain LSWC, and move up, say, 0.2 grains at a time until I find the sweet spot (and I always stay 0.2 to 0.3 grains below max). Sound reasonable? Thanks. Don

[tazman]

A lot depends on your gun. Each revolver has it's own rules. Try the loads that give you the velocity range and feel that you want and see how they shoot.
Some designs seem to need more velocity, but often a particular weapon will shoot them well anyway. Load a few and find out.

[Tallbald]

Thank you both. The fun is in the journey as they say. My habit has been since I returned to reloading, to load 50 of a particular powder weight and try them out before deciding. I'm trying to make powder charge the ONLY variable between loads.Then I have fun tweaking what I think I know how to tweak. You folks here have helped me greatly, adding to my pleasure with the hobby by helping me relearn some old things and adding casting to the mix. Don

[rintinglen]

4.2 grains of Universal works well in the 38 special for me with a 158 grain boolit. It shoots to approximate point of aim at 45 feet from my old M-10. Hogdon lists 3.5 as the start load and 4.5 as max. IME, 3.5 is too low, I had blowby on the cases and poor accuracy. I'd start at 3.8 and go up from there. I have never used Universal in 357 loads, so I can give no help there.

[35remington]

I have noted position sensitivity of the considerable kind when light loads of Universal are used in longish cases like 38 Special. Test to see if this occurs for you. I'm betting it will.

[Tallbald]

Very good information. I appreciate the heads up. I love light loads but understand that experience for many shows one can go too light although within accepted powder weights. Thanks. Don

[220]

I haven't tried it with 158SWC but with the Lee 105SWC I deep seat the projectile below the case mouth.
By this I mean the nose of the projectile is approx 2mm below the case mouth, accuracy has been very good even down to speeds as low as 650fps. Deep seating reduces case capacity similarly to loading flush seated wadcutters.