Paper grain direction????

[country gent]

Wondering whats everyones thoughts on finding and running the pepers grian lebgth wise with the bullet? Is it important? I have read in several books how to do it and such. I bought several rolls of the Seth Cole 7# and 8# to test. The grain runs length of roll so to get It "by the books" I have to cut a sheet and then strips then patches. I have wrapped some with it and its really good paper either damp or dry.

[country gent]

Boy the fingers arnt working good today. First Line should have been, Wondering whats everyones thoughts on finding and running the papers grain lengthwise with the bullet? Sorry

[Lead pot]

It don't make any difference if you wrap dry. Wrapping wet then you will run into a stretching problem. But shooting I see no difference in performance.

[country gent]

Ive been dry wrapping with this paper. I use a rolling paper cutting board set up to cut patches. with sheets I cut 1" strips to a guide/stop. I then mount a triangle on the boards and cut the angled ends to the stop reset for length. If grain dosnt matter I can mount the roll and just cut strips.

[johnson1942]

lead pot is right, if you dry wrap their is no diff, only if you wet wrap then the stretch is diff. ive gone to dry wraping only so i even use all wood fiber number 9 paper. i find dry all wood fiber paper is stronger than 25 percent cotton. when it comes to wet wraping the 25 percent cotton is stronger only when wet.

[Don McDowell]

I'm in the it don't matter camp as well.

[oldracer]

When I started doing this I had never considered the grain but in thinking about it.....I lick the outside of the paper and it wraps right around the bullet and end up being very easy to hold with the Chase wrap system! Hummmmm

[doc1876]

having made paper for many years, I can tell you that if you wrap with the grain it should hold tighter as it drys, however there is some discrepancy as to raping against the grain and its falling off the boolit as it exits the barrel. I have not shot any pp yet, as I am just getting into the art of it but if you have not read this thread, I can tell you there is more information here than most people could get from an encyclopedia, or visiting a factory. Catboat does an excellent job.
I am remembered of the many times we sent a new guy for the "paper stretcher as it won't make the specs on the order sheet"

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?34782-Paper-101

[Don McDowell]

A lot of the stuff you read on the internet goes flying right out into the breeze when you actually start putting paper patched rounds down range. There are a few folks that post that actually use paper patch bullets, and so you may want to pay attention to what the likes of Powderburner,Leadpot,Kenny Wasserburger, and Brent Danielson have to say about what does or doesn't work..

[country gent]

Don I do put alot ofattention in what all of you recomend. Its why I ask for information of you all. I have been wrapping some and getting decent results, mostly with my Hepburn in 45-90. I bought these rolls of seth cole paper on recomendations here and was wondering if I could save the effort cutting into sheets to cut strips from.

[Lead pot]

What is the cotton content of the Seth Cole paper?

[country gent]

Im not sure Don has recomeneded it sevral times on here and I decided to try it

[Don McDowell]

Gent, my comments were directed more at the fella that has yet to shoot a patched bullet, but referred us to a thread that is several years old, about how paper is made. Interesting reading it twas, but for all intents and purposes don't mean a lot when the firing pin spanks the primer out of a deep sleep..

Leadpot I don't know whether the 55 w is rag or pulp, but it does work well. I can't get it to roll wet because it seems to want to pull in two. Kenny does roll it wet. It takes the jojoba oil just fine, and always makes nice shreds, I have yet to find any "base wads".
It is what the various 435 bullets I gave you were wrapped in.

[fatnhappy]

having made paper for many years, I can tell you that if you wrap with the grain it should hold tighter as it drys, however there is some discrepancy as to raping against the grain and its falling off the boolit as it exits the barrel. I have not shot any pp yet, as I am just getting into the art of it but if you have not read this thread, I can tell you there is more information here than most people could get from an encyclopedia, or visiting a factory. Catboat does an excellent job.
I am remembered of the many times we sent a new guy for the "paper stretcher as it won't make the specs on the order sheet"

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?34782-Paper-101

I certainly hope you weren't at the Alsip Mill. It's a shame to see the current state of affairs at most mills these days. Thanks to new EPA boiler regs we're going to see more closures, less American industry and more imports from the Pacific rim. With the Newpage/Verso merger in the works, Newpage is going to spin off or close two more mills. Rumford in Maine and one in Minnesota.


(Nice work Obama).

[doc1876]

fatnhappy, thanks, and no, I was at a mill in Alton, and it shut in '99. (8 days short of my retirement) The paper industry is one of he most polluted industries, and due to continuing EPA requirements, many are shutting down. I do realize that we need to breath, but we also need to eat.
Don,
the reference to the manufacturing of paper is indeed important, as the grain acts totally different from across the grain, which I am sure, is why you are asking about cutting the strips.
I think if you wrap with the grain, so the rifling cuts the sheet across the grain, you can wrap tighter. Of course most of the time I gather information totally backwards, until I really try it.
I just loaded up some .375 Winchester for my brother, and some .45-70s for me, but as to when we are going to get to pull a trigger, is anyone's guess.

[Dan Cash]

Fellows, I have never used Seth - Cole paper but over the last couple years I have shot a lot of smokeless paper patched ammo, mostly .30 stuff. I use tracing paper which is mostly billed as "medium," weight or "standard Weight (40g/m2)" or 25 lb., depending upon the manufacturer. It all measures .002 thick and is reasonabley tough material. I have tried rolling it both with the grain on the same axis as the bullet and with the bullet across the grain. I can not tell much if any difference in result but as I roll wet, it is easier to roll with the grain on the same axis or parallel to the bullet. With a little practice, I figured out how long to cut the patch to allow for stretch and how tight to pull the patch.
This paper is durable and loaded cartridges require no special handling. I carry .30-40s in a cartridge belt along with revolver cartridges where the bulets get chafed against the truck seat or coat tails. They may ride in the belt loops for several months before being used but don't seem to suffer any degredations so far as chambering accuracy is concerned.
This is how I do it and as always, the advice is free and your mileage may vary.
Dan

[Don McDowell]

fatnhappy, thanks, and no, I was at a mill in Alton, and it shut in '99. (8 days short of my retirement) The paper industry is one of he most polluted industries, and due to continuing EPA requirements, many are shutting down. I do realize that we need to breath, but we also need to eat.
Don,
the reference to the manufacturing of paper is indeed important, as the grain acts totally different from across the grain, which I am sure, is why you are asking about cutting the strips.
I think if you wrap with the grain, so the rifling cuts the sheet across the grain, you can wrap tighter. Of course most of the time I gather information totally backwards, until I really try it.
I just loaded up some .375 Winchester for my brother, and some .45-70s for me, but as to when we are going to get to pull a trigger, is anyone's guess.

doc I'm not asking about cutting strips. Been cutting strips for years and years.
I ran abunch of patched bullets thru my new 44-90 yesterday testing for possible match loads for the up coming season. Hope to this coming season top the national championship I won in the Marksman class this past Sept (shooting paper patch).
Also pulled off something I don't know has happened before, but I shot 7 straight sillouette pigs at the Colorado State match shooting patched bullets with no fouling control other than blowtubing between shots.
I can quarantee you how ever paper is made doesn't even make it on the radar screen when you're looking for tiny groups...

[Lead pot]

The best paper I have found for patching is made by Southworth. Unfortunately I cant get it any more unless I find it on shelves down in the basement of the old down town office supply stores. I have used paper from several different mills and I found that the Southworth 8-D is a 7-1/2# 100% cotton fiber paper cockle finish that is .00197" thick and if you drop a drop of water on it and it soaks it up like an ink blotter. Many here might not be old enough to know what an ink blotter is :) but this is what I look for, for my patching paper. I will not use a paper where a drop of water will stay on.
The other paper I use is Southworth 29-D it is a 9# 75% cotton fiber cockle finish that is .0018 thick.
These two papers will work good wet or dry but I get the best accuracy patching dry and the patch stays on just as tight dry as it does wet. I want my paper to release at the muzzle not down range 20-25 yards like it does sometime wet patched with just plain water with nothing added like some do. You can check this out by putting plywood at the 25 yard line and shoot through to see just how far your patch rides down range with the bullet.

Kurt

[Don McDowell]

With the paper mill 9# 100% cotton paper wet patching seems to work the best in my rifles. But with the Seth Cole 8# dry patching holds up pretty good. I can't seem to find just the right amount of wet to use when rolling the Seth Cole, but it sure doesn't repel any water. We did pick up a roll of 8# at Staples, that is very similar in appearance to the Seth Cole. I haven't tried any of it yet, but my neighbor says it's working just like the Seth Cole patches I gave him for his 40-90 bn.