.358 Winchester....the final results of casting

[35Whelen]

Well I am tickled pink. These were my first ever cast and now they are ready for the range.

See post #22 for the Range results....Holy cow I am pleased !!!!!!!

Accurate Mold 360- 240A
Cast with Magnum shot containing 5% Antimony, then added approx 3% tin.
Got a great fill out on the mold. Cast at .361, then sized to .359"
Gas checked and lubed the come it at 238 grains with only 1 grain difference between rounds.

Loaded in Hornady cases with BR-2 primers, and H 4895 powder , this is my load. Any comments on the load date please feel free to comment.

Load 1 - 39 grains
Load 2 - 40 grains
Load3 - 41 grains
Load4 - 42 grains.

They are going to be shot in a Ruger Hawkeye Stainless with a 22" barrel. Going to Chronograph each load using 2 rounds of each load, then I will shoot three into a target at 50 yds to see how they do.

Something extremely pleasing about casting your own boolits. I sure hope they shoot as good as I feel about them.
Only wish whitetail does were still open here to do a bit of field testing, as there are loads....bucks are a bit harder to find.

Comments, recommendations and criticisms most welcome....fire away. Thanks for all the help and messages gents.

121235

[Screwbolts]

They look awesome , any chance setting the crony up so all shots are recorded?

Ken

[35Whelen]

I'll try Ken......I have very small screens, so it can be a bit challenging to get them perfectly aligned and still hit paper. I will post my results if I can get out to the range this week. Going to be a bit chilly I think...calling for -7 here overnight this next week..

[35 shooter]

Hope they shoot as good as they look for you. H4895 works well in my whelen with my 200 gr. boolits and is fantastic with jacketed in the same rifle. Looking forward to your results.

[35Whelen]

What can you guys offer in way of opinion on the load data....love to hear your favorites. I have a good selection of powders to pick from. I would also take great care in working up to any loads posted by the brothers. Thanks

[Bjornb]

The 358 Winchester is a very forgiving cartridge to load for. I've been shooting the RCBS 200 FN (NOE version and original) with great success, and your bullet looks like an excellent design. My powder of choice has always been IMR 3031; Goodsteel turned me onto it and it has never let me down. Start around 29 grains and work up (I usually recommend 31 and up with the 200-grainer), you'll find good accuracy and velocity somewhere in the low 30's. That bullet should also shoot very well with Varget, my sweet spot with the 200 was around 41 grains, so yours would possibly do well if you start around 35.

I notice that you seated the bullets very far out, does your rifle have a very deep throat? My Savage Axis with an ER Shaw barrel would only allow me to seat to the crimp groove so I was just curious.

As for your loads with the H4895 they look like they are right in the ballpark; good luck and good hunting!

[35Whelen]

Seems to have a long throat. The bullet is a bore ride design and I get light engraving on the nose with just a light touch on the band ahead of the crimp groove. I actually have room in the magazine to go longer, but I will be deep into the driving band ahead of the crimp groove. I am very happy that the gas check is situated about 1/8th inch up from the base of the neck.

Thanks for the tip on 3031 BJ...I had it on the table, then thought perhaps with the boolit tipping the scales at 238 I thought perhaps a bit slower powder might work well. I have cast up an even 100 of these 240 grainers, so I will try 3031 with the next loadings. Just itching to get out, but weather here is about to go south.

[taco650]

Seems to have a long throat. The bullet is a bore ride design and I get light engraving on the nose with just a light touch on the band ahead of the crimp groove. I actually have room in the magazine to go longer, but I will be deep into the driving band ahead of the crimp groove. I am very happy that the gas check is situated about 1/8th inch up from the base of the neck.

Thanks for the tip on 3031 BJ...I had it on the table, then thought perhaps with the boolit tipping the scales at 238 I thought perhaps a bit slower powder might work well. I have cast up an even 100 of these 240 grainers, so I will try 3031 with the next loadings. Just itching to get out, but weather here is about to go south.

238 or 338? You mention 338 in your first post which I thought was pretty high even for a 35 cal. I'm guessing that's a typo and 238gr is correct.

Anyway, your loaded rounds look great and should do very well for any of BC's four legged game.

Did your Ruger come from the factory chambered in 358 Win?

[35Whelen]

Hi Taco...... Yes typo, corrected to 238. Yes Ruger is an M77 Hawkeye all weather stainless, chambered in .358 Win. I took off the original plastic stock and installed a charcoal colored laminate off of a Ruger Ultralight. Fits me like a glove now. Lucked out in buying this one used off of a local fellow. I have only ever seen one other for sale, and it didn't last a day for sale.

[Pilgrim]

I'm using VVN135 in my .358. Douglas barrel, 22", 1:12 twist, RCBS 35-200, vel. 2430 instrument (Oehler 35P) which is about 2445 muzzlevelocity. Never used 3031 in anything so I can't comment on that powder.

[glockky]

Pilgrim what kind of groups are you getting at that velocity?

[taco650]

Hi Taco...... Yes typo, corrected to 238. Yes Ruger is an M77 Hawkeye all weather stainless, chambered in .358 Win. I took off the original plastic stock and installed a charcoal colored laminate off of a Ruger Ultralight. Fits me like a glove now. Lucked out in buying this one used off of a local fellow. I have only ever seen one other for sale, and it didn't last a day for sale.

Sounds like the ideal rifle for BC. Now get out there and shoot something with it so we can see how well it works LOL! :kidding:

[runfiverun]

I have a ruger hawkeye in 358 also.
no it ain't for sale.
I use a heavier boolit and a much slower powder, it should be outlined in Tim's thread.


3031 is like using a fast lot of I-4895 and varget/4064 is like using a slow lot of I-4895.

[35Whelen]

Thanks runfiverun.........any chance you could provide a link to Tim's thread. Thanks for all the information so far too guys...much appreciated

[taco650]

I have a ruger hawkeye in 358 also.
no it ain't for sale.
I use a heavier boolit and a much slower powder, it should be outlined in Tim's thread.


3031 is like using a fast lot of I-4895 and varget/4064 is like using a slow lot of I-4895.

I have to agree with r5r's comment about slow powders. I made some loads for my 303 British using 40gr of RL22 and the HDY 150gr j-words. I was getting 1", 3-shot groups at 50 yds with the battle sights on my #1 Mk3. Very low recoil and noise too. RL 22 is for the 300 mags but it worked really well in my 303.

[Beerd]

Thanks runfiverun.........any chance you could provide a link to Tim's thread. Thanks for all the information so far too guys...much appreciated

I think it's a sticky.
..

[35Whelen]

Can't seem to find the sticky.......

[runfiverun]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?172689-I-believe-the-cast-lead-rifle-boolit-is-the-most-effective-projectile-in-the-world

this is a good discussion.
and will show why your boolit at a nominal velocity of about 1900 fps will be very good at it's intended use.
it's a good discussion for any caliber, but deals with Tim's 358 mostly.

[35Whelen]

Thank you......I have read it :oops: sorry, but thanks for bringing it back to my attention. Good bunch of guys here, thanks again.
Wish the weather would creep up past -10 and I would chance a day at the range.

[TCLouis]

I could be wrong, but this cartridge seems to be the perfect match for cast boolit hunting of medium game.

Case capacity, bore diameter, boolit weight choices.

OK, a 45-70 for those that have a use for a heavy boolit.

[Pilgrim]

Pilgrim what kind of groups are you getting at that velocity?

5 shot groups at 100, benchrest run around 1.5" IIRC. I haven't shot for groups with this rifle in probably 6 or 8 years. I know I was satisfied that I could put a boolit in a kill zone of a buck at 300 yards. That is my self imposed limit with this rifle.

[35Whelen]

Well life got busy and it has been far too long since this original post was made. But I did finally manage to get out to the range and shoot my first ever cast bullets. The original post is at the top , but I'll refresh things a bit.

358 Winchester Ruger Hawkeye Stainless.

Accurate Mold 360- 240A
Cast with Magnum shot containing 5% Antimony, then added approx 3% tin.
Got a great fill out on the mold. Cast at .361, then sized to .359"
Gas checked and lubed the come it at 238 grains with only 1 grain difference between rounds.

Loaded in Hornady cases with BR-2 primers, and H 4895 powder . Initially I had my starting loads at 39 grains of H4895 to 42 grains. Advise by one of the members here had me pull the loads and begin at 30 grains and work up to 33 grains.

Made it to the range yesterday and had a good day getting my daughter and her boyfriend into shooting everything from 45-70 to 22 pistol and even a few warm loads with the 44 Mag.

When the crowd at the range finally left I pulled out the Ruger Hawkeye in 358 and set up the chronograph and some targets. I shot for group and did not worry about where they were hitting on the paper. The range was 50 yards. I did make the mistake of not chambering the rounds before hand and they were all quite stiff bolt closures....but I think that worked in my favour as you will see in the groups. The velocities were a bit more inconsistent than I would have guessed they would be, but I certainly cannot complain on the accuracy.

All five shot groups.

30 grns of H4895 velocities as follows. 1649 , 1641, 1669, 1652, 1683
31 grns of H4895 " " " 1700, 1763, 1722, 1756, 1663
32 grns of H4895 " " " 1779, 1755, 1793, 1822, 1749
33 grns of H4895 " " " 1859, 1774, 1883, 1822, 1791

I originally seated to specs, but they would not feed properly so I slowly backed them out til they fed without a problem. But failed to see how they would chamber and it resulted as I stated in some pretty stiff bolt closures. And most likely contributed to the deviation in velocities from round to round.

I began shooting and recording velocities...... when I got to 32 and 33 grains I got a bit worried, as I couldn't see the rounds and where they were hitting on paper. I could see the first two holes, but the rest were no where that I could see ( I also failed to bring a spotting scope ) so I just remembered an old friend telling me, don't look for the holes, keep the point of aim and shoot for group....so that is what I did.

I can simply say I am tickled pink with the results and now look forward to fine tuning the load.

What are your opinions on the velocity for a deer round? Is the mid 1800's going to be sufficient to anchor a deer . I felt that the load, while not being heavy on recoil, you certainly knew it was lobbing a 240 grain bullet out there.

Thank you to all the members; and there are many, who assisted me with this journey with their advise and coaching.

I am so stoked......I just cannot believe that one would be capable of putting such accurate rounds together with cast boolits.

You guys rock...thank you for all the encouragement and advise...I am simply jumping for joy on this new hobby.

Heres the pics. All the data is on stickies with each target.

167238167239167240167241167242

[rockrat]

With the meplat on that boolit and 1800fps, you could probably anchor an elk, much less a deer. Nice groups.

[Les Staley]

35Whelen, you have inspired me! I have a NIB never fired Hawkeye in 358 Winchester that will likely never see a J word projectile during it's stay with me. I too am just getting my casting feet wet, having great success with a 25-20 and 65 gr RNFP GC boolets, a 45-70 Shilo 1874 shooting RCBS 500 gr spitzer shaped boolet. At the same time I'm getting into powder coating. Picking up a few moulds as I go. Good thing I'm retired.. Wouldn't have time to work..

[Shuz]

35Whelen--Nice groups!

[35Whelen]

You can see the first shot cold barrel on the first target of 30 grn. I don't think I shoot that well with J word bullets ;) I have a new scope for these old eyes and I felt it made a difference. A Leupold VXR 2-7 with the illuminated dot in the center of the reticle. I can actually see where I'm aiming now.

[taco650]

Those results look very promising, stretch the range to 100 yards and see what you come up with.

[Artful]

Nicely done - the groups are excellent!

[runfiverun]

that's a pretty hard alloy.
if you can line 3-4 deer you should be able to get all of them.
if you wanna go faster then go to a slower powder.
I'm running a meplat about 1/4 that size [an alloy about half the antimony] and pushing things a bunch harder but it works well for me.
deer usually flip up and over if I get both shoulders.
they run quickly for about 35-40 yds if I poke it through the ribs.
and pretty much fall flat if I neck shoot them.
I loaned the rifle out to a buddy doing some cull work on their ranch and had to go to his house and get my rifle back from his wife when he wasn't home.
otherwise I would have had to wait for him to shoot all 50 rounds I gave him with it.

[hockeynick39]

Good times! If it were me, looking at the 32 gr chronograph data and seeing the groups. That's the load I would stick with. Try loading another group of 10 with that same data and go fo it again over a chronograph at 100. Also looks like a 6D and 8L on the scope adjustments figuring your POA was on the orange cross to the left of the group. Good luck and stay safe.

[Ramjet-SS]

Outstanding Welcome to the "club" !!!!!!

[dverna]

An excellent start. As others have said, a softer alloy would be better for hunting, and your next step is to test accuracy at longer ranges.

I have shot many "patterns" at 50 yards the first time out with a new gun/load, and you are shooting nice little groups. Sometimes the cast bullet gods smile on us...sometimes not. Again, very well done!!

[richhodg66]

I really like the .358. I have a Savage 99 Brush Gun in it and consider it about as close to the perfect deer rifle there is, at least under the conditions I hunt.

Mine really likes the NOE clone fof the RCBS bullet and 40 grains of IMR 4320.

[luvtn]

I am jealous! Good going. :)
luvtn

[Camba]

Good shooting 35Whelen!

[35 shooter]

Looks like a good load from here lol. Not sure how many deer you'll have to line up to stop that bullet @ 1800 fps.

[jebb45]

I have been shooting cast boolets thru my 35 Whelen and my 358 Winchester for over 30 years now, and have no reason to buy j-word boolets. I have taken 4 elk with these 2 rifles and ?different Mule Deer and Antelope when I lived in Colorado. We moved back to my home neighborhood 4 years ago, and the 358 has done all the Whitetail hunting that I can handle....the Saeco #352 is the mold of my choice, and cast all my boolets from WW and air dry them, I have never found a boolet yet to see what it does. All my shots out to 110 yds, are complete pass thru's, when the shot is sideways or full length body shots. when the boolets cool, they have a tinny sound to them and they are hard. I set one on a anvil and hit it square with a 3 lb hammer, it spread out to about the size of a nickel and 1/4 of an inch thick. ihave been trying to keep the velocities around 1900 fps and the round shows great accuracy out to 125 yards......Its all the rifle and caliber than one needs for this rock, would not be afraid to hunt anything with it. I have one of the original Ruger 77R rifles, Blue with a Walnut stock and a very nice Weaver 3 x 9 with dual-x crosshair.........outstand combination and caliber for the North American content...............

[35Whelen]

Thanks for all the replies gentlemen....I appreciate hearing from each and every one of you and take all of what you have to say as good information. Wished I had started this journey many years earlier.

[white eagle]

seems as though the 358 and cast were meant for each other
I have a 358 win built on a Model 70 action wears a custom
21" ss barrel I use a 260 gr boolit I designed on Mountian Molds
use 2400 and have gotten sub .75" groups with the combo
kills deer like a bolt from the blue
you made a great choice

[35Whelen]

Thanks White Eagle...I have six lbs of 2400 , mind sharing your load data with me using the 2400, and what kind of velocities you were getting?

Thank you

[Prodigal Son]

That's good groups, ain't nothing going to go far with that bullet!