Slow powder for .357 Henry

[Hannibal]

I was wondering if anyone has experimented with using any powder slower than 4227 in a .357 rifle? I have a Henry .357 and did a chamber cast to find it has the typical chamber, meaning essentially no leade at all, just a short, abrupt taper into full rifling. So. I thought a slower powder MIGHT give the boolit a chance to align before the pressure came up and drove it sideways into the rifling and deformed said boolit. At the same time, I'm leery of straying too far from published data. Thoughts, anyone?

[Outpost75]

I use a nominal compressed caseful of RL7 about 26 grains with a 200-grain lead bullet in .44-40, which is a standard pressure load. I do the same thing in the .32-20 loading 12 grains with a 120-grain bullet. About 16-17 grains should be safe in a . 357 rifle with a 180 grain bullet.

[Hannibal]

I have some Reloader 10x I was eyeing. Trouble is, I see no data anywhere for a straight-walled case, and I sure don't want to ruin a rifle, nor take a trip to the ER. But, I see no straight-wall case data for Reloader 7x, either. I'm not savvy enough to know if that chamfer makes a big difference or not. Anyone else care to chime in?

[koehlerrk]

I've been using LilGun in my 357 Marlin for a while now... I don't think you can fit enough into the case to give pressure issues.

[Hannibal]

Interesting. I have no Lilgun, and had steered clear of it due to reports of high barrel temps. Something for me to mull over . . .

[starmac]

What is accuracy like with your loads now??

[NoAngel]

I've had great accuracy from a slightly compressed load of 4198. Leaves a few unburnt kernels behind even with a small rifle primer but it's VERy accurate in my rifle.

[Hannibal]

With J-words, I'm just under 1 MOA @ 100 yds. Scoped, off bags. Cast? Well, that's a sore subject. Anywhere from 2 1/2" - 4" @ 50 yds. (YIKES!).

[Lefty Red]

I loaded up some IMR 4227 with some XTPs on top. Will run them thru my Henry this weekend.

Now for casted, my Lee 358-158-RF over 3.8gr of Trail Boss gives me 2" at 100 yards, off the bench with my Skinner Peep Sight and FO front bead.

Jerry

[Outpost75]

RL7 gives me the best accuracy in. 44-40!

[bobthenailer]

From my experince Lil gun will give highest velocties with excellent accuracy and usually lower pressure ! with the 22 hornet, 38 super and 357 mag rifle & pistol.


I did at one time use it in the FA 454 casull with excellent results but disconued use after the bad press from Freedom Arms about barrel erosion when loaded at 50,000 + cup

[w30wcf]

RL7 gives me the best accuracy in. 44-40!

...and in the .357 too! Some of the best groups my Marlin Cowboy has produced has been with a capacity load of RL7 (16.5 grs.) and the Lyman 358665 bullet. Velocity was around 1,400 f.p.s.

Another good one is 11/4759.

w30wcf

[357Mag]

Expan -

Howdy !

WW296 & H110 are listed by Hogdons as the next powders " slower " than Lil-Gun, but...... it wouldn't be by much.
I've loaded/experimented w/ WW296/H110 in .357Mag 1894, .357Max H & R SB2 " Ultra RIfle "; and .357AutoMag 22" carbine.
Accuracy for me in the 1894 & .357AutoMag was superb !

Have you considered use of IMR4759 ?
It is a great powder for use in " reduced loads ". By runnin' a " reduced load ", you could hold down vel that way.


Trailboss would technically be a " faster " powder, but has the closer pressure curve to BP than any other " smokeless " powder.
Trailboss loads would be down a wayz.... on power.

With regards,
.357Mag

[mnewcomb59]

Lil gun is actually slower in the .357 than H110. H110 is the best powder for 110-125 grain bullets (2300 fps+) but Lil gun is the powder for the heavier bullets. The Handloader article by Brian Pearce was getting 2000 fps from 158s with 19 grains. Buffalo bore gets 2150 fps from 158s in a rifle with 19.8 grains of a powder that looks very similar. The key for 357 rifle powders is density, and Lil Gun is really dense. The only powder I have seen that is finer is AA #9 but it is faster like 2400.

[yeahbub]

My go to powders/loads for the .357 with a 158gr are 16gr of 2400 for general purposes, or 19gr of Lilgun for full throttle in my '92. This works with bare cast, plated and paper patched. My chrono isn't feeling well, so I have no velocities to share, but these have flatter trajectories than factory stuff.

[Lefty Red]

I was able to run some IMR4227 through y Henry today. The 158gr and 180gr XTPs were small groups at 100 yards. Very impressed.
Jerry

[Lefty Red]

My Henry didn't like Blue Dot or 2400 at all! Was really disapointed. But groups well with WW296 and IMR4227.
Jerry

[Hannibal]

Mine does not seem to like the abrupt shoulder on cast SWCs at all. The 2 j-words I've tried so far shot fine. Trying out a couple of round-nose heavy cast rifle boolits in front of 4227 next.

[Ramjet-SS]

180 grain GC WFN over a good dose of H110 or 296

[Lefty Red]

Mine does not seem to like the abrupt shoulder on cast SWCs at all. The 2 j-words I've tried so far shot fine. Trying out a couple of round-nose heavy cast rifle boolits in front of 4227 next.

Yep, same here. The 358-158-RF from Lee has replaced all others in my Henry. Thinking of looking into a heavier WFN from NOE soon.

Jerry

[Hannibal]

I've not tried that particular one yet. A water-dropped Lee C358-158-SWC has produced the best 5-shot group so far, but went south in a 10-shot group. Next up is an RCBS 200 FN in a 38 case and a LBT 180 grain LFN, both in front of 4227. I'll post the results here as soon as the time and temps allow.

[gpidaho]

I've been considering the use of 4759 in my 357 Handi. Unlike others in this thread I'm working with a Saeco #352 240gr. fp seated out to the rifling. This is in cases cut down from max. brass to just under 1.400. I've had good luck so far with Unique @ 4-4.5gr. This gets me 886fps. and an S.D. under 10 at 4gr. A good sub-sonic. The 4759 might get me to 100% cap. and work for a sonic load. Thoughts? GP

[gpidaho]

Sorry for jumping in the Lever Thread with this. Just want to see if any of you have tried the 4759 GP

[Hannibal]

I'm trying for a higher velocity since this is a .357. However, since this is rifle vs a revolver, perhaps concessions will have to be made? Please post range results. I promise when the daylight and wind allow, I shall do the same.

[osteodoc08]

Interesting. I have no Lilgun, and had steered clear of it due to reports of high barrel temps. Something for me to mull over . . .

Only an issue with light for caliber bullets and revolvers. No forcing come in a lever. I've really not noticed any difference between 296/LG as far as forcing come erosion. Now with light bullets and LG, oops, yeah, I noticed accelerated forcing cone erosion.

[charlie b]

Interesting about bullet shapes. I am looking for pistol loads but my Python has never liked SWC's either. Also of interest is the GMDR testing done with lever guns. They also show poor grouping with the SWC bullets, both 158 and 140gn.

[Hannibal]

Interesting about bullet shapes. I am looking for pistol loads but my Python has never liked SWC's either. Also of interest is the GMDR testing done with lever guns. They also show poor grouping with the SWC bullets, both 158 and 140gn.

Allright, pardon my ignorance. What is GDMR?

[glockky]

If you can find it 300MP will give you great results with a heavy bullet. It burns slower than 296win.
My experience with this powder has been good when used near max loads. If you have a chronograph it will tell you when you have hit the sweet spot. Extreme spread and standard deviation will fall into the single digits.

[FergusonTO35]

My 1894C really likes H110 and the 358-158-RF with a plain base gas check. Blue Dot does pretty good too.

[Hannibal]

Shot some RCBS 200 FN in the Henry .357 today. These were loaded in a .38 special case in front of a charge of 2400. I'm not going into specifics as this is actually a rifle boolit, and as such, no published data exists for this load that I am aware of. Never the less, the load grouped into 1 1/2" at 50 yds. I plan to load some more and back out to 100 yds. next time.
I also shot some LBT LFN 180s in front of a 13 grains of 4227. The horizontal dispersion was .9", however opened up to 2.127" vertically. I plan to up the charge in the hopes that the vertical stringing will decrease with more consistent velocity, or at least that's the theory. If the vertical stringing does in fact decrease, I plan to back out to 100 yds. with these at well.

Will post results here when I have them.

[charlie b]

Allright, pardon my ignorance. What is GDMR?

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[Hannibal]

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

Thank-you for that! I now have it bookmarked.

[Lefty Red]

Sorry for jumping in the Lever Thread with this. Just want to see if any of you have tried the 4759 GP

I had a Handi 357 with the short barrel, Talo, I think, It had iron sights. I was stupid and put as much money in it as I would have a Contender. And the Contender would have had a way better trigger.

Anyways, I tried 4759 in some 360 DW cases that fit into the 357 Handi. I can't remember the load, but it was starting and did so-so with a 180 XTP. I never felt like it was worth looking into it.

Jerry