lyman 45 rant

[tking308]

after reading several threads on here about bringing a lyman 45 back to life I purchased one and started cleaning it up. Everything was going great. I got it completely apart, painted it and blued the non painted metal parts. I upgraded the pressure screw and nut. Then my problems began. When I installed the new pressure screw I quickly realized that the hole in the cap was smaller than the new pressure screw. I figured I'd just drill out the hole in the cap. Well, I broke the cap. Now I'm going to have to order a new cap. I went about trying out the 45 on some newly cast boolits and after the first 40-50, the bolt that the handle pivots on broke. This bolt is 1/4 x 28 at the threaded end but larger at the pivot point. No buying an exact replacement. I happened to have some 1/4 stainless rod around so I threaded it and tried it. It bent in short order. I bought a 1/4" clevis pin, threaded it and it broke almost immediately. I want to drill out the threads and go to a bigger class 8 bolt but I'm worried about breaking that. I've seen where another member here made an improved system, unfortunately, I'm not that talented. I'm about to sell this thing as parts and go back to tumble lubing....
RANT COMPLETE

[Calamity Jake]

That bolt that broke is called a shoulder screw, Ace hardware may have one or can order you one.
Measure the diameter and length of the shoulder for the proper fit, you know the thread size.

[Beagle333]

Time for the Star! You can crank and yank on that baby and it'll still do a bucketful of boolits in an hour.
I do also have four 45's and love em all. I guess sometimes a bad one comes along though.

[fryboy]

from your description you have what i refer too as a generation 1 ( shoulder bolt, spoked cast iron top etc ) odd you broke the shoulder bolt ,usually the handle lets go first ,some parts can be found ,did you try posting in the WTB section ?
the #45's are me fav of all the lyman sizers , yet having said that i also have to state that they arent the toughest ones eg; great for slight to medium sizing but ... they'll never be a swaging press

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Wow, you must really have a tough boolit to be breaking the shoulder bolt, like Fryboy said, usually the handle breaks or the linkage mount.

If you go the route of drilling it out. I'd suggest to drill it 5/16" and NOT threading it. find a (grade 8) 5/16" bolt with the correct length of untreaded shoulder. modify the hexhead so you can insert it from the sizer side and use a nylock nut to fasten the handle. I can post photos tonight...I am late for work right now.
I may have an extra on lying around ?
Jon

[Char-Gar]

I got rid of my Lyman 45 as soon as the Lyman 450 came out. The 450 is a more study and serviceable machine. Most folks think older is better but in the case of Lyman lubesizers, that is not the case.

[Springfield]

How much were you sizing down those bullets? Sounds like a bit too much. I like my 45 but only use it for small specialty jobs, use the Star for the normal stuff.

[tking308]

Thanks for all the help. This isn't something anyone can order, I've tried that route. I'm trying to size from .454 down to .452. I think maybe the bolt was loose and that contributed to its breaking. I've considered drilling it out but I'm worried I'll break the casting, like I did with the cap.
@JonB, if you've got a spare, let me know. I'd be glad to buy it from you. Btw...the spring I got from you works great. Thanks

[Char-Gar]

I tore up my Lyman 45 sizing water dropped .454 bullets down to .452. I bought the 450, repaired the 45 and eventually gave it to a guy in Canada. That experience cured me of (A) water dropping bullets and (B) using the Lyman 45.

[tking308]

Thanks Jon B for the advice. I drilled out the threads and found a 5/16 shoulder bolt that was just the right length and put a nylock nut on it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Well, that should certainly be stronger than the original 1/4x28 shoulder bolt.
I hope it works well for you.
Jon

[fast ronnie]

As a tool and die maker, I've used a lot of shoulder bolts over the years. shoulder bolts are sized by the diameter and length of the body part of the bolt, and not the thread size. They were designed for a specific use in stamping dies, but have found many other uses. The body of a shoulder bolt is slightly less than nominal dimension so they will slide through a reamed hole in a stripper plate. The body is hardened and drawn to a much higher strength than a grade 8 bolt. If you visit a local machine shop, they may have the size you need in stock. If they don't, they are available through mscdirect, or most of the other supply houses that carry cutting tools, etc. You may have to buy a small quantity to get them, but it will put your press back together without having to do any or possibly minimal work.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

As a tool and die maker, I've used a lot of shoulder bolts over the years. shoulder bolts are sized by the diameter and length of the body part of the bolt, and not the thread size. They were designed for a specific use in stamping dies, but have found many other uses. The body of a shoulder bolt is slightly less than nominal dimension so they will slide through a reamed hole in a stripper plate. The body is hardened and drawn to a much higher strength than a grade 8 bolt. If you visit a local machine shop, they may have the size you need in stock. If they don't, they are available through mscdirect, or most of the other supply houses that carry cutting tools, etc. You may have to buy a small quantity to get them, but it will put your press back together without having to do any or possibly minimal work.
I am always looking for alternatives to the non-existant Lyman 45 replacement parts.
Especially those unique screws lyman likes to use, like this shoulder bolt and also the linkage mount pivot bolt.
I just went to mscdirect, and they have nothing near the correct dimensions with 1/4x28 threads.

[tking308]

picture of repair, unfortunately I can't figure out how to get the picture upright. smh


121186


Yes, after cleaning it up I painted it Flat Dark Earth. I just couldn't do the orange :)

[tking308]

As a tool and die maker, I've used a lot of shoulder bolts over the years. shoulder bolts are sized by the diameter and length of the body part of the bolt, and not the thread size. They were designed for a specific use in stamping dies, but have found many other uses. The body of a shoulder bolt is slightly less than nominal dimension so they will slide through a reamed hole in a stripper plate. The body is hardened and drawn to a much higher strength than a grade 8 bolt. If you visit a local machine shop, they may have the size you need in stock. If they don't, they are available through mscdirect, or most of the other supply houses that carry cutting tools, etc. You may have to buy a small quantity to get them, but it will put your press back together without having to do any or possibly minimal work.

I actually contacted a company that makes custom shoulder bolts but I never heard back from them. I'm guessing though that I couldn't have purchased enough of them to make it feasable.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

picture of repair, unfortunately I can't figure out how to get the picture upright. smh


121186


Yes, after cleaning it up I painted it Flat Dark Earth. I just couldn't do the orange :)
Looks Good, I like the color.
you mentioned breaking the reservoir cap when trying to drill it out, did you glue it back together ?

[tking308]

Jon B, that's exactly what I did. Contact cement . I figured there isn't any pressure on it, so it would do until/if I get a replacement.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

well, there can be some pressure on it when turning the pressure screw when the lube level gets low...and that is the main 'reason' for it, is to keep the pressure screw centered as the pressure nut gets lower into the reservoir.

[tking308]

well, there can be some pressure on it when turning the pressure screw when the lube level gets low...and that is the main 'reason' for it, is to keep the pressure screw centered as the pressure nut gets lower into the reservoir.

I didn't realize that. I guess I'll go ahead and order a replacement cap.

[bruce drake]

Do I love the search button on this site!

Broke the same shoulder bolt on my Lyman 45 yesterday morning sizing some air-cooled and aged (4 weeks) LEE Karabiner 8mm bullets to .325 for some later 8mm-06 reloads.

I like the idea of going to the thicker bolt and the enclosed picture showing the repair will do the fix just right. Now I'm regretting the week-long business trip I'm getting ready to go on today. Here is to remembering this fix next Monday!

Bruce

[Wayne Smith]

That's why I size my water dropped boolits same day.

[fryboy]

any hard alloy should be sized asap - especially if they tend to harden over time , the #45 isnt the most robust of machines and any machine will break when used beyond it's capabilities, It does work wonderfully well within reason ( love it for my lil 22's !! )

[bruce drake]

Looking back at this thread, I should have upgraded to the 5/16" bolt the first time I broke this shoulder bolt....I broke the replacement bolt I procured back in January last night...Going to drill out the hole for the thicker bolt tonight...

[bruce drake]

replaced the broken bolt with a 5/16" 1.75" length bolt tonight. I used a dremel to cut the bolt head to fit into the new hole and used a compression washer and a nylon/steel locknut to secure the bolt in place.

Ideal should have offered this upgrade to their Lyman 45s to help the owners of their sizers who didn't want to upgrade to the 4500 series...

[1989toddm]

Ive been sizing .4615 405gr slugs cast from WW lead down to .459 and for this very reason, sizing a day or less after casting. Boy those are tough! I think part of it also is the lube I'm using and that its in a 65 degree basement.

[leadman]

Some heat on the lube will ease the pressure needed to size the boolit. A hair dryer or better yet a Harbor Freight heat gun works great if you don't want to spring for a lube heater.
For very hard boolits I would size down by .001" then change sizer dies for the next .001". I did not keep the 45 very long. I have 2 older RCBS luber/sizers plus a bunch of Lee push thru sizers for tthe Hi-Tek coated boolits.
If the OP still has problems he could use a Lee push thru first then run them thru the 45 to lube them. Extra work but better than breaking the 45.

[Ed in North Texas]

I'd say I made the right decision when I dedicated my 45 to my BPCR boolits. Soft lead, mostly no sizing to speak of, home made lube warmer (1/2" aluminum blocks big enough to mount the 45, 450 and LAM II on, drilled and cartridge heaters installed - first use on the 45 I found out how hot that sucker could get as I had lube all over the bench and floor :oops:, got a rheostat to switch between the 3). Works good for what I wanted it to do.

[1989toddm]

Just like casting, it takes a "feel" to know when your pushing the machine too hard.


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[montana_charlie]

Just like casting, it takes a "feel" to know when your pushing the machine too hard.
I fully agree with that concept ... when using ANY tool or machine.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I have owned many Lyman 45 sizers over the years and never broke anything on any of them. Several years ago I sold five on the S&S Forum at once, I'll never do that again. I am currently using three along with six other sizers. I hate changing dies.

[1989toddm]

I fully agree with that concept ... when using ANY tool or machine.

True. Too many guys don't take the time to learn to listen, feel, watch, and learn from the equipment they are running. Breakage soon follows.


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[bruce drake]

And many of us are using a instrument that was made 75 years or longer ago. Parts do fatigue over time even with proper usage of the equipment.

[Duckiller]

Why would anyone get mad at a tool that probably hasn't been made for at least50 years? The 45 is a very useful tool, but it has limitations. Don't want to live with the limitations? Get a 450 or 4500. There is a reason Lyman now makes the 4500.

[almostgone]

I really like my 45 although its only sizer Ive ever had. Got it in a collection of old misc. reloading/casting stuff 20 odd years ago. Kinda where I got started casting. The screw on my handle is constantly backing out and I have to be ever watchful. Is there a fix for that? I guess locktite comes to mind but? I didn't know the true purpose of the top cap, I had put a dust cover(rubber cap) over mine when I replaced the pressure screw and plug. Guess I'll have to get a replacement. This site is a wealth of knowledge!

[fryboy]

Drill your old cover out to 5/16" iirc it'll then fit over the longer threads on the new rod
As for the handle coming loose ...ummm actual handle ? ( which is a press fit ) or the pivot point ? ( which the early ones had a shoulder bolt and later models a pin with a cotter key ) if it's the shoulder bolt one clean the threads and use a square shaft big screwdriver with a wrench ,crescent or other,to get it good and tight,one can use locktite but I've never found the need if I had clean and tight threads,if you do use locktite allow it to fully dry before using

As for guys complaining about 70+ year old tools ...they're only jealous 'cuz they may not work so well after 70+ years :kidding:

[Graybeard96]

Some heat on the lube will ease the pressure needed to size the boolit. A hair dryer or better yet a Harbor Freight heat gun works great if you don't want to spring for a lube heater.
For very hard boolits I would size down by .001" then change sizer dies for the next .001". I did not keep the 45 very long. I have 2 older RCBS luber/sizers plus a bunch of Lee push thru sizers for tthe Hi-Tek coated boolits.
If the OP still has problems he could use a Lee push thru first then run them thru the 45 to lube them. Extra work but better than breaking the 45.

Man, every time I get on this site I learn something new and useful- Thank's from another 45er.

[Beagle333]

I use the Lee push thru first, then lube with the 45's. It's very gentle on my lubers that way. I even have three No. 1 lubers and if I size with the Lee die first, they should also outlast me. 8-)