Lyman #45 load book

[newton]

Anyone have one they could give me a quick look up of 30-30 data? I have heard it lists loads for heavy bullets in it.

Thanks

[FLHTC]

It lists the 311407 which is 183 grains cast with #2, if you are looking for that. Castpics lists the RCBS 30-180-FN.

[newton]

Thanks. I was wanting to verify a load I saw someone post about a 193 grain jacketed round with 4320. I got the info though.

[starmac]

The #45 is the only one of them that list the 190 gr jacketed. It is interesting to note that the charges for 170 grain dropped in #46 compared to #43 thru#45. And #45 was the first to give pressures for the 30/30. I am not sure wheather the powder changed, the liability concerns changed, but something did about that time.

[newton]

Interesting. Me thinks it's a liability issue. Or, it just may be that they had some erroneous data. It sure doesn't add up to what I tested tonight. Almost makes me want to buy some jacketed 190 grain bullets.

[FLHTC]

I'm sorry, I assumed you were looking for heavy cast bullets. Yes that load for the 190 grain jacketed is 26 to 29 grains

[newton]

I'm sorry, I assumed you were looking for heavy cast bullets. Yes that load for the 190 grain jacketed is 26 to 29 grains

Yes, I am actually. I knew it listed the 190 grain jacketed which is close to the 194 grain boolits I am casting. Castpics does list the RCBS boolit I am using, but non of the powders that are available to me. Darn this shortage!!!

[FLHTC]

The Lyman book lists 3031, 4064, 4320, 4895, 4350, 748, 760, 780, Rx7...11 and 21, BLC2, H380 and H450

[starmac]

It does list a 183 gr cast, but with different powders.
The powder list is
hi-skor 700x
pb
sr7625
unique
green dot
herco
These are all pretty anemic loads,with the highest velocity coming from unique at 1519.
Pressures (cup) on these anemic cast loads are running very close to the 190 jacketed loads.

[newton]

It does list a 183 gr cast, but with different powders.
The powder list is
hi-skor 700x
pb
sr7625
unique
green dot
herco
These are all pretty anemic loads,with the highest velocity coming from unique at 1519.
Pressures (cup) on these anemic cast loads are running very close to the 190 jacketed loads.

This is interesting. I wonder why this is. Maybe the higher burn rate powder being used? Guess its one of those things that you just have to take their word for.

I have shot a lot more plinking loads with my 30-30 casts than full power. I just relegate them for the hunting loads. Since my hunting boolit I am wanting to use comes in at 194 grains, I figured 190 grain jacketed loads would be a good start.

Now...if I can just figure out whats actually going on with those loads.

[starmac]

IIRC Larry Gibson printed out the exact data for your boolit with 760 powder on his leverrevolution thread.
The #45 gives data for the 190 gr jacketed with 760. It may be usefull to compare data, at the very least it would be interesting.

If you are so inclined this is the 760 with 190 gr jacketed data out of #45.

760 br 31 gr vel. 1809 cup 31,000
max is 34.5 vel 2017 cup 39,000

Now, in the lyman #45 the powder is listed as 760 br, is that the same as plain 760?

[newton]

I wish I had 760 or 414 to work with. But, I just have 4320, and 4350. Interesting thing is that I came across two different posts today. One that talks about "loading a case full of 4320 or 4350" in the 30-30 and not being bad. I have heard that about the 4350, but not 4320. However, my tests may just have proved otherwise.

The other was a guy, who is on here, testing the very boolit I am using, with 4320 and 32.5 grains or so. Wowser. But he said he had not seen any pressure signs for it.

I just wonder about load data sometimes. Have to wonder if they have some Monday days, and some Friday days. I would hope not, but who knows for sure. lol

[starmac]

About the same time Larry was testing the leverrevolution powder, it came available here, so I picked some up. I played with it a little in the 30/30 and 30 rem, but not full house loads, which is where it really shined. I do not need full house loads in the 30/30, but wanted the powder to eventually use in the 308me, but still have plenty of factory ammo to use up.

[starmac]

The only reason I mentioned Larrys 760 data is to be able to compare known data from your boolit and the comparable jacketed bullet.

[starmac]

Lyman #44 lists a 193 gr cast, but not with your available powder and no pressures listed. imr 4227 was listed as highest velocity and the factory duplicate load with 1934 fps.

[newton]

Lyman Ideal #39 has 303 Savage data for 190gr jacketed. There is no 4350 data, but 4320 is 32-36.5gr for 1850-2145fps. While there is cast data directly for the 30-30 (up to 169gr) there is NONE for the 303 Savage, but a suggestion that any 30-30 cast/charge could be used.

Difference in case capacity between the 30-30 and 303 Savage is negligible, so start low and work up.

I have heard that you can use 30-30 data for the 303, but not the other way around? I'll have to look more into this.

[UBER7MM]

http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/reloaders-reference/reloading-manuals/191-lyman-manual-44

It's not the Lyman 45, but it's free.

I hope this helps,

[newton]

http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/reloaders-reference/reloading-manuals/191-lyman-manual-44

It's not the Lyman 45, but it's free.

I hope this helps,

Thanks. Yes, I had seen it, but only the Lyman #45 has the info I was looking for. It seems it was the only one that listed anything in the 190 grain range.

Gotta love castpics though! Great stuff there. Maybe one day I'll be able to purchase a pressure tester and be able to contribute to the cause with trying different boolits and powder. Sure wish I lived close to someone with one, I would love to test what I am working on now.

[newton]

Lyman #44 lists a 193 gr cast, but not with your available powder and no pressures listed. imr 4227 was listed as highest velocity and the factory duplicate load with 1934 fps.

Thanks star. I am trying to rack my brain as to if there was some 4227 sitting on that shelf at the store. Whats interesting is that such a fast powder would produce that velocity, with pressures that would have to be somewhat safe or else they would not publish it.

It really does get me to thinking about the whole 29 grains max thing on 4320. I wonder how they judge their testing. Do they stop at a certain pressure? Sometimes it seems so, but other times you find max loads that are way less in pressure than other max loads listed with different bullets. I wonder if they do it based on a certain velocity, to get a certain FPE? Or, maybe they do it based on accuracy?

I sure would love to pick the brain of whoever does this sort of testing. Talk about a good conversation!

[newton]

That's interesting. I did have someone give me the info, but I don't remember the barrel length being that long. Usually test barrels I've seen loads for are 24".

No wonder at 29 grains of 4320 I was only getting 1760 fps or so out of my 20" barrel.

[newton]

Was your accuracy acceptable? Did you try increasing the charge, or did you feel like the rifle was telling you that you had reached the limit?

That is a pretty heavy boolit, and at 1760fps should be ENTIRELY adequate for 150 yard shooting deer and hogs. I fully expect it would shoot through a deer stem to stern.

I was only looking at the velocity at first. Trying to get a feel for what it was going to shoot like. When I was completely surprised at the really low readings I only loaded one at a time at different loads till I reached 31 grains. I stopped there. So no way of knowing.

I just don't want to poke a .308" hole in something is all. I know that .50 RB is only 170+ grains and they kill plenty of deer, but it's pure lead for one and larger size for another.

[starmac]

This is what I would do if I only had a limited choice of powder. Forgrt the numbers (velocity) and find what is accurate, at the distances you intend to use it. Velocity doesn't mean anything unless it hits the target. Then set up some test mediums at those distances to see how your boolit performs, If not satisfied at your accurate load with terminal performance, then either move your maximum distance for shots at game in, to where you are satisfied with terminal performance, OR (gasp) buy a box of factory ammo to hunt with, and go back to the drawing board after some more suitable powders become available.

[newton]

Yes, I started one thread but I think I put too much into it. Asking to many questions and such. Seemed to be confusing so I made other threads that kind of broke it down. It's all kind of looking at my situation from different angles which has been quite interesting actually. It's helped a lot to say the least.

i use that 4350 in a 243 and used it(when I could not find any other powder last year) for some 30-30. Had a lot of nay sayers back then, but it is very accurate(1 1/2" @ 100) and I get close to 2000 fps. It is a lightly compressed load. I had thought in the beginning I would use it for this boolit, but then realized that it would be significantly compacted with the longer boolit and I am not seeing how I'll get the fps out of it. One thing that's nice is I dont worry about over pressure.

Maybe the heavier boolit will build a little more pressure, and get me up to the 1900 mark. I will try a few rounds just to see, while I'm trying those others. I'll go back to 4320 once I get new brass. I'll feel comfortable working up a load with it.

I've got some 170 lee loads ready to go, and will hunt with them push come to shove. I just really wanted to use the heavier boolit this year. No factory loads for me. Lol

[newton]

Couldn't find new brass, but I did find some H414. My very original thought when getting this mold was to use this powder. I have read numerous posts on here, and elsewhere, that H414/W760 and this bullet is exactly what I am looking for. You have to load right up at the top end(of case fill), and it has a very small window of good accuracy(not dangerous pressures), but in the end it produces the perfect hunting round - which is what I am looking for. I'm happy.

Best of all, thanks to one of the guys on here, its actually been tested by a ballistics lab to record pressures and Larry recorded pressures also. Bad thing is, its all been done in a 24" barrel, but I am crossing my fingers that I will only see a 100 fps drop out of my 20" barrel. That will get me to the 1900 fps mark I want. On the upside also, I like full case loads in my hunting rounds, and while loading a few last night I did not feel the boolit 'drop' from the neck which means the powder is supporting it - to an extent.

If it shoots like my H4350 with 180 grain boolit shoots, then I will be as happy as a tick on a hound dog. It has a loud boom, but I always figured that it disoriented the deer just in case I missed and gave me a small window to shoot again..... just kidding guys. lol