Results - 8x56r cast bullet w/ gascheck 338 230Gr. RF (Frankenstein) - 4350 powder

[HikerLT]

Here are my results of first reloads using the 338 230 gr Frankenstein bullet

used 4350 powder

from bench at 50 yds.

my mold is the hollow point, so the bullets are more 225 gr in weight.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/NOE_Bullet_Moulds_338_230Gr_RF_HP_225_gr_Sketch.jp g

first pic shows

50 yds

red circle - 4 shots with surplus 8x56r rounds. Only 4 shots show, because first shot is off the paper. I then adjusted aim point to the very bottom of paper, so at 50 yds was shooting ahout 11 inches high and to the right.

Low green circle - 41 gr 4350 powder

aim at same point, bottom of the paper.

http://webpages.charter.net/hikerlt/Hobby/8x56r/start_41gr.jpg
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[HikerLT]

2nd pic - 41.5 gr of 4350 powder,

point of aim is bottom of the shoot-n-see circle

http://webpages.charter.net/hikerlt/Hobby/8x56r/41andone_half_gr.jpg
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[HikerLT]

3rd pic 42 gr of 4350 powder

http://webpages.charter.net/hikerlt/Hobby/8x56r/42gr.jpg
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[HikerLT]

4th pic - 42 and one-half gr of 4350

http://webpages.charter.net/hikerlt/Hobby/8x56r/42_one_half_gr.jpg
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[HikerLT]

43 gr of 4350 powder

http://webpages.charter.net/hikerlt/Hobby/8x56r/43gr.jpg
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[HikerLT]

44 gr of 4350 powder

http://webpages.charter.net/hikerlt/Hobby/8x56r/44gr.jpg247407

[HikerLT]

44 and one-half gr of 4350 powder

http://webpages.charter.net/hikerlt/Hobby/8x56r/44_one_half.jpg
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[HikerLT]

45 gr of 4350 powder

http://webpages.charter.net/hikerlt/Hobby/8x56r/45gr.jpg
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[HikerLT]

45.5 and 46 gr of 4350 powder

http://webpages.charter.net/hikerlt/Hobby/8x56r/46gr.jpg
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[1johnlb]

That 44.5 looks promising. Wonder how it would hold out to 100yds.

Which sight groove are you using 100, 300, or the 500?

[HikerLT]

I'm using the long infantry 1895 Steyr rifle, with the rear sight folded down, and set for the lowest setting. I need to get a taller front sight blade. Hopefully this weekend I can try it at the 100 yards...

I'm tempted to mount a Lyman 57SME "backwards" on the left side, like I saw someone else do ( I think it's in a thread on this site also..) - the peep sights help with my old eyes :lol:

[Wayne Smith]

I'd like to see the 44.5 and the 45.5 groups expanded into 10 shot groups to see how they hold together. They both look potentially promising.

[HikerLT]

I'll try that - 10 rounds per load charge weight.

Thanks for the advice !!

[1johnlb]

HikerLT, there's 3 different v notches on most m95 rear sights. 1st is the 300m with sight flat, 2cd is 500m with the sight up/ the slider, 3rd and most elusive is the 100m notch/ if you move the ladder slider up to about 800m with ladder up you will find the 100m notch under the 500m.

long infantry 1895 Steyr rifle
Sorry just caught that, my m95's are carbines. I've been wanting a long but can't seem to find one at a decent price. My best load so far has been 13gr reddot and the lee 329. I picked up the lee 338 recently but haven't had time to shoot it. That NOE looks like a deer tumbler. Thanks for posting.

[Buckshot]

...........Just out of curiosity what is the bore and groove of your barrel, and what are you sizing your boolits too? Any idea of the velocity? Have you checked the bedding of the rifle? BTW, a good temporary front sight can be made right on the rifle via the putty type epoxy. Use a file to bring it to shape after it hardens. Be sure to take your file with you to the range so you can make "Sight Setting Changes" :-). To remove it all you need is some heat.

Here's a few 10 round 50 yard groups:

http://www.fototime.com/6A9933E12FA8F6F/standard.jpg

The targets marked "Oldfeller" were the Frankenstein slugs cast with his original SC mould as produced by Mountain Moulds years ago. Rifle was a M95 carbine, issue sights and trigger, etc.

.............Buckshot

[Abert Rim]

Rick, old friend, I did not realize those little buggers could shoot that well.

[Buckshot]

.............Depends on the rifle. Same rifle for all 4 targets. The .338" and .332" sizing for the Lee slug was one to fit the groove and one to fit the throat. Since those sized .332" appeared the more accurate, the Oldfeller was sized to that also.

...........Buckshot

[UBER7MM]

...........BTW, a good temporary front sight can be made right on the rifle via the putty type epoxy. Use a file to bring it to shape after it hardens. Be sure to take your file with you to the range so you can make "Sight Setting Changes" :-). To remove it all you need is some heat

.............Buckshot

I've used an proportionally sized hose clamp with hole drilling in it to hold a 4 penny nail. I took diagonal cutters and a file with me to the range to acquire the target. Then I ordered the appropriate ramp and front blade combo.

I hope this helps,

[HikerLT]

Adding more pics - same distance 50 yards

10 shots each
45 and 45.5 gr
http://webpages.charter.net/hikerlt/Hobby/8x56r/45&45.5.jpg
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[HikerLT]

46 and 46.5 gr

http://webpages.charter.net/hikerlt/Hobby/8x56r/46&46.5.jpg
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[HikerLT]

last 5 shots 47 gr

http://webpages.charter.net/hikerlt/Hobby/8x56r/47.jpg
247398

[Wayne Smith]

Have you any idea what velocities you are running? I'll have to run the same boolit but with 4064, when I get to the range and get the scope sighted in on my carbine.

[dualsport]

I'm always happy to see someone working with these old Steyrs. What gas checks are you using? I've thought this would be a good candidate for a heavy plain base. WC872? I gotta check that out.

[Buckshot]

.............Would still be interesting to know what the barrel slugs and what you're sizing the boolits to?

.............Buckshot

[TomBulls]

.............Would still be interesting to know what the barrel slugs and what you're sizing the boolits to?

.............Buckshot

x2...

I recently picked up an Austrian Steyr 95, and the bore is gigantic. It slugs at a whopping .335", so I'm seriously doubting that the .329 8x56r mould from Lee (C329-205-1R 8x56mm) is going to give good accuracy. The only thing that looks like it will come close is a .338 mould from Lee, RCBS, or anyone else. Having not even fired the rifle yet, I'm wondering if the .329 mould from Lee would be a good candidate for paper patching.

[1johnlb]

NOE, and on sale too.
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=1011

[TomBulls]

NOE, and on sale too.
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=1011

Right, I noticed that in the previous comment. My question was about what diameter that others are sizing their cast bullets for the larger M95 bore.

[1johnlb]

It seems to me, that each one is different. I have 3, all different sizes. My push thru is .334 and that's to small for 1 of them. The amount of corrosion seems to be the determining factor. I think when I start playing with mine again I'm going to see if .338 will chamber in all of them.

[TomBulls]

It seems to me, that each one is different. I have 3, all different sizes. My push thru is .334 and that's to small for 1 of them. The amount of corrosion seems to be the determining factor. I think when I start playing with mine again I'm going to see if .338 will chamber in all of them.

When the Indy 1500 gun show is in weekend-after-next I'm going to pick up the .329 and the .338 mould from Lee and see what I can get done with them. If you're able to try out anything before then please let me know so that we can exchange notes!

[Brett Ross]

I have an Austrian and love it, light and very handi. The bore measures .333 and is rough but shoots the Lee .338 boolit well. I can shoot 2-3 inch, 3 shot groups at 100 yards with the crappy stock sights and my old eyes. Longer strings lead to some stringing but was not a concern to me as the deer is gone before than. I used it last year to take a nice whitetail. My load was 18gr 2400, lube 45/45/10 x2 coats. I’m not sure of vol, as some idiot shot my Croni. I would have taken the guy out but suicide is a mortal sin. I was considering the Frankenstein mold but it shoots the lee Boolit so well could not justify the expense.
125828

Tony

[1johnlb]

Brett, what are you sizing the Lee to or are you shooting them as cast? I've settled on 13gr reddot for my pet load, it yields 2-3" groups with more than enough recoil for my pleasure.

[Brett Ross]

Ooops sorry, sized .334. I soft tip per Bruce Bs process when hunting. I need to give your red dot load a try as have a few pounds of it and running low on 2400.
Tony

[TomBulls]

I have an Austrian and love it, light and very handi. The bore measures .333 and is rough but shoots the Lee .338 boolit well. I can shoot 2-3 inch, 3 shot groups at 100 yards with the crappy stock sights and my old eyes. Longer strings lead to some stringing but was not a concern to me as the deer is gone before than. I used it last year to take a nice whitetail. My load was 18gr 2400, lube 45/45/10 x2 coats. I’m not sure of vol, as some idiot shot my Croni. I would have taken the guy out but suicide is a mortal sin. I was considering the Frankenstein mold but it shoots the lee Boolit so well could not justify the expense.
125828

Tony


Dang, that looks like it was a bloody mess on the in and out. Your results sound really encouraging, and I'm excited to get mine shooting proper.

[Brett Ross]

Pass through double lung. I did not recover the boolit but the exit wound was 1/2-3/4". Shot was 60-75 yards and deer ran about 50yds or so. I would not swear on boolit expansion as it took ribs on the entrance and exit wounds. I was planning on using it again this year but Iowa shut down the only season we could use rifles. The plan was to try for one with my 45LC Blackhawk but not confident enough with my shooting ability yet to use it. I may take a trip to Missouri next year but if I do, I will mount a scout scope as my eyes are getting no younger.
Tony

[TomBulls]

I was at the range this (very cold!) morning doing some shots with my new-to-me M95. I was firing some paper patched 170 grain bullets from re-formed 7.62x54r cases. I started with 20 grains of 5744 and worked up two grains at a time until reaching 26 grains of 5744. If I had more brass I would have fired more. I wasn't getting any over-pressure signs and accuracy was better at the 26-grain loads than at the 20-grain loads. Whenever I'm able to get my hands on one of Lee's .338 moulds and a sizing die I'll see if it doesn't get better accuracy than my amateurish paper patching.

[Buckshot]

...........As I've posted before, the problem with the M95 Straight pulls in 8x56R is the somewhat idiotic chamber/barrel dimensions. When you have a .333" groove and a .316" land/bore that is a groove of just over .008" deep. Follow that up with a bore form where the lands equal about 50% of the barrel's internal ID. That means that fully HALF of that .333" OD slug is going to be squeezed down .008" all around, or .016" total. That is a considerable amount of lead being displaced.

Add to that that if you're one who likes to "Fill the throat", in this rifle it is no problem at all to CHAMBER a cartridge with an 'As cast' Lee C-338-210-R at .340" in mine. Might be different in yours :-) Now you're not moving .016" of lead around the circumference of the boolit, but .024" all around! Egads!

All the difficulties in getting these things to shoot has to do with the out of bounds dimensions found between the chamber and barrels. Proof of this is very dramatically shown when these dimensions are more in line with what we're used to. As an example I had a M95/31 with an abysmal bore replaced with a new 30 cal bbl, and chambered to 30-40 Krag. A cartridge that is similar enough to the 8x56R to preclude major issues in feeding due to OAL and case dimensions. Similarly the 303 Brit and the 7.62x54R Russian would be similar candidates.

http://www.fototime.com/F2618D4764522E3/standard.jpg

A couple minor modifications to the clip are all that is required. The Russian case would be even simpler.

http://www.fototime.com/3F99F55C9811736/standard.jpg

The re-barreled carbine. It will easily handle book 30-40 loads, cast or jacketed and shoots them with all the accuracy anyone would desire.

http://www.fototime.com/9DDC9AF2291A561/standard.jpg

A target fired with 23.0 grs of H4198 and the Lyman 311284 at 50 yards. Groups fired with book loads and jacketed ammo are just a good.

Without re-barreling it's a matter of experimenting to find out what dimensions work best for cast in YOUR M95.

...............Buckshot

[Me not you]

When the wait for the re-introduced Frankenstein mold became too much, I bought a LEE mould for the .338 220gr GC bullet (you can't beat the price). I size it 0.338 (almost as cast) and lube with Carnuba Red and Hornady gas checks. My bore is 0.334 groove and 0.315 land. It shoots extremely well for five or ten shots until a silvery film of lead builds up. The stuff literally wiped right out when cleaning so it's not what's classically referred to as leading. I then tried putting a coat of tumble lube on the bullets before loading them, and that made a big improvement. I'm now trying heating a small amount of Carnuba Red and dipping the exposed bullets on loaded rounds to coat it. This will take some development work to get an even thin coat.
If that can be made to work, I might get the NOE Frankenstein mould, and put the little blaster (M95/30 Carbine) back to work as a foliage season brush rifle. If I was going to do anything with this rifle, I might see if the bore can be cleaned out to an honest 0.338. That's essentially what I'm loading anyway.

[Me not you]

The cast bullet loads that were dipped in melted Carnuba Red needed to have the excess scraped off, and they were hard to chamber. There was still too much on them it turns out. They did shoot very well, with no "flashing" of lead. I'll have to experiment a little to see if I can just get a thin film. Lee tumble lube does work very well, so if the "dip" approach can't be made to work easily I'll use the tumble lube.

[doctorggg]

Me not You, Have you thought about using Ben's BLL? Just might be the trick you need over the carnauba red.

[Me not you]

I looked up Ben's BLL. He used a liquid wax with a lot of solvent, and mixed that with tumble lube. Apparently that wax is no longer made. Some folks have mentioned liquid car wax. Turtle has a liquid carnuba wax. I might take a look at that. If it doesn't work I can still use it for it's original purpose.

[Argentino]

Me not you,

just curious about where that lead deposit developed: Did it appear only within the first inches of the bore or all over it?

Thanks

[Me not you]

Seems to be all along the bore. It wipes out with a patch and solvent. When I coat the bullets with some kind of lube or grease it doesn't happen.

[Me not you]

I decided to "go for it" and got the NOE "Frankenstein" 5-cavity mould. In an afternoon I can run off about 30 pounds of cast bullets, so the mould will pay for itself with one use. Some I'll air cool for protection from my furry bad neighbors, the rest I'll water drop. Ranges are usually 100 yards or less on my land, so they might be just what I need. This time of year with dense foliage, I could probably use a bayonet in some cases.

[1johnlb]

Seems to be all along the bore. It wipes out with a patch and solvent. When I coat the bullets with some kind of lube or grease it doesn't happen.

How much tin is in your alloy? Could it be tin wash your experiencing?

[Me not you]

I'm using well mixed wheelweights, with a 1/4 ounce of tin in a 10 pound pot. I'm guessing the coating is lead that's abraded off the bullet going from the chamber into the bore, that is then atomized and blown along the barrel by the hot gasses. I'm driving the bullets close to 2,000 fps for protection; as well as targets. I did have a bear crash out of the bushes about 40 feet away while I was walking back from the target. He did stop before I felt a need to pull the trigger.

[jugulater]

your theory seems probable if your throat is pretty heavily eroded.

i just bought the same NOE "Frankenstein" mould and just started using it w/o the gascheck with 7 grn of 700x for my plinking loads. I managed to put 10 rounds down range today and was happy with my results. i put 8 out of 10 shots into a 2L jug at 100 yards.

im curious as to what loads you are using to get that kind of velocity as i would like to use my M95/30 to take a deer at some point in the future. I assume you are working with 4350? ive seen it said that 3031 is better in the 8x56r

[Me not you]

Cast bullets give a lot less resistance than jacketed. Faster propellants will work better. IMR 3031 might work well if you have it. You need to snoop around for some load data. Unfortunately I won't provide any thanks to the lawyers. I highly recommend Quickload for working with these older, odder cartridges. It has a fair amount of cast bullet info.
The 8x56 Solothurn has a lot of capacity. Fired cases in my rifle measure 70 grains. This will vary from rifle to rifle.

[Me not you]

I went for it and put the NOE 5-cavity "Frankenstein" mold work this afternoon.
I ran off nearly a thousand of water dropped WW, and they all look like keepers. I'll let them sit for a while to finish hardening. By the end of the month I should have sized, loaded and fired some at about 1950fps with XMR5744. I'll report on how they do.

I bought his 316299 5-cavity for the Finned M91 and they shoot better than I can. Obviously I'm extremely pleased with the NOE product. In one afternoon I can run off enough good bullets to pay for the mold twice over.

[Intel6]

Had some decent initial results with the NOE mould and my Styer M95. I was using faster burning powders like Unique and 2400 but want to try some of the rifle powders but it is hard to find data.

247545

[Me not you]

I ran a few through the sizer/lubricator without changing it's adjustments from the LEE 330 boolit. They will need some work. The loads shot OK and they were pretty potent. I need to seat them a little deeper to avoid having the boolit stuck in the throat If I need to eject a loaded round. I had the lead flashing issue, so I'll need to coat them in some manner. MORE TO COME. For those who just want to try cast, the LEE 0.330 boolit worked pretty well for a $20 mold.

[Me not you]

I set up the bullet sizer to properly run the slugs, and the bullet seating die to have the base of the bullet just at the bottom of the case neck. I loaded with WW760 for about 1950fps per quickload. (Recoil is more bearable with the slower powders). The Frankenstein bullet has a reduced diameter area on the nose which I dipped in heated Carnuba red lube. Done just right, the cartridges load with very little extra push on the bolt handle. The whole combination worked pretty well. I shot four-inch groups standing at about 50 yards which is about the best I can do with this light short rifle. The propellant didn't burn as well as I hoped, so I'll try an extruded one next time. Big thing, NO SILVERY COATING IN THE BARREL. I've found the combination to make cast work in my "baby cannon" except for some experimentation with propellant. Powerful, fairly accurate, and a clean barrel.

[HikerLT]

I updated my original postings because the pictures were not properly showing anymore - so I uploaded and attached pics

[ak_milsurp]

I have a lovely Scout Scoped, Austrian M95 that slugs at .334. I tried the Lee .329-205, as cast at .331 lubed with BLL, with 16 Gr Alliant 2400 and CCI 200. Accuracy was dismal. Got the "Old Feller" Frankenstein from NOE..... Wonderful molds! Mine dropped at .340, Water Quenched, using WW and added a bit of 95/5 bar solder for each 2 lb ingot..... Sized to .338 with .339 gas check. Lubed with "Ceresin Purple" and 2 coats of BLL. Tried 16 gr Alliant 2400, got blackened cases-- cases not sealing well, and 3" group at 50 yds. Worked up to 20 gr of Alliant 2400, with CCI250, suddenly cases sealed, no blackening and got five shot 5/8" group at 50 yds. WE have a winner!! Recoil not bad, accurate, no leading. WHAT FUN!!!!! Just the thing for 200 yard "Bang and Clang" steel silhouette off-hand competition!

[swheeler]

AK_milsurp, where did you get a scout scope mount for it, I've looked for the last couple years now and cant find one, real hard for me to shoot opens any longer.

[fcvan]

AK_milsurp, where did you get a scout scope mount for it, I've looked for the last couple years now and cant find one, real hard for me to shoot opens any longer.

I bought a long eye relief scope for a Mossberg .308 Scout Rifle with a picatinny rail forward of the action. I also used it on an AR15 for load development with a 3/4" Riser which centered the scope over the barrel nut. That works very well.

I don't like a scope reticle right in my face, I find it distracting. With the long eye relief, I can shoot with both eyes open as with a reflex red dot. The scope was Truglo 4x fixed with 4" eye relief, made for shotguns. The diamond reticle made sight acquisition quick and handy for 'run and gun' drills. As far as the Scout rifle, it was perfect for placing the reticle forward of the action for easy top loading, even though the rifle feeds from a box mag. The Mosberg actually uses either the M1A or AR 10 mags with a nifty mag release that helps prevent heavy brush from hitting the release latch. I got mine (I have 2 now) for less than $60 bucks. Comes matte black with rings but I bought rings for the use of the ghost ring sights and the scope.

[ak_milsurp]

S&K. Makes the scout mounts

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