What is the obsession with FPS?

[GoodOlBoy]

I have seen so many posts both here and a few other boards I visit lately where folks are either trying to figure what the FPS on a load would be at max load +-, or trying to figure out what their longer or shorter barrel will be vs published data and I am more confused by the minute. When I reload, I am always looking for the most accurate load within my accuracy parameters. I could care less if my load matches published data, beats it, falls short, or anywhere in between so long as it is safe and accurate. I have been reloading for a few short years. No more than a decade or so really. I still don't own a Chronograph, and probably won't EVER own one. My point is why is everybody obsessed with FPS? That's like being obsessed with the RPMs of your tires on your car IMHO. My firearms don't have a "requires XXXX FPS for accuracy!" stamped anywhere on them.

Oh I know people have argued that a load with a extreme spread of single digit is more accurate than a load of double or triple digit spread. My argument is I can either test the load and see how Me, my firearm, and it group together; or I can't. If I have a load that groups a cloverleaf for me at X range. Then I am good to go. I don't care if the spread is 1 or 100 fps. I also don't care about trying to squeeze a few more fps out of a load. I have never seen a max load that was the most accurate load for a given cartridge rifle combination, so why would I want to try to get there? I see so many people who worry wort themselves to death over a heavier faster load. For instance would be a 45-70 405 grain load. If I am shooting one that is accurate, and the recoil doesn't kill me why would I want or need to go to 550+ grains and X velocity? A 45-70 405gr black powder load will kill ANY animal on the North American Continent, including elk, bear, and rabid log trucks! And I don't even have a good recipe for rabid log truck!

Don't get me wrong. If punishing yourself with recoil is your favorite gig then by all means do so safely. I just for one don't get the obsession.

GoodOlBoy

[tazman]

I am not casting for rifle(yet) but the same attitude applies to pistol. I start with light charges and work my way up to an accurate load and then stop. Pushing it faster doesn't do anything for me.
I do like to chronograph my loads to see what they are doing in case I need to change powders. I can match velocities and hopefully have the same impact point and accuracy.
That said, the chronograph is an important tool for load development, particularly when you don't have pressure testing tools. Also, many shoot in competitions requiring a certain power level, so they have to know what their loads are doing.
For the rifle, the faster it goes accurately, the easier it is to hit your target at long range. If the extra speed destroys your accuracy, all you have generated is a fast miss.

[GoodOlBoy]

Now there you hit upon something I probably should have thought of Tazman. I do know that some competitions, like cowboy action, require a max FPS of no more than X. In that case I can see the reason for it.

GoodOlBoy

[Pb2au]

Like many things in life, people do different things for different reasons. For example, there is a cadre of folks here currently pushing the envelope in terms of personal goals in accuracy in what is described as high velocity.
Why would they do it, when you can get terrific accuracy at lower velocities? To be honest, I believe it may fall into the category of the journey being as important, or more so, than the destination.
What those gentleman get out of the journey is an encyclopedic knowledge of the higher mechanics of cast boolit shooting. Those types of personalities are the same ones that say might push a car to higher speed, or build a bow, THEN learn to shoot it well. It is a hunger of knowledge.

[GhostHawk]

A lot of people do chase speed though.

When doing it with cast it is my experience that dropping the speed a third and raising the bullet weight a third leaves downrange energy close to original but it does it at lower speed. Easier to find a alloy, boolit, lube that works.

Generally speaking I think fast is easier for the shooter. Animal being shot at is less likely to be able to out jump the shot.
I think it is harder on equipment though, especially those cast boolits. Slow it down a bit, keep the accuracy up, keep the momentum up, make up the rest with old age and treachery. But your mileage may vary.

[Petrol & Powder]

I was about to say the same thing but Tazman beat me to it.
FPS is a factor in in external ballistics (trajectory) but you run into the law of diminishing returns. When we're talking about rifles, increased velocity (to a point) makes range estimation errors less critical. But there is a practical limit to that effect. I totally agree that some folks are obsessed with velocity. I work with a guy that practically prays at the alter of speed. There comes a point where the gains of a flatter trajectory are overcome by the increased pressure/recoil/wear/etc. If you're good at range estimation and the bullet has enough energy when it arrives to get the job done....who cares if you lobbed that round to the target like a mortar shot?
For handguns the obsession with velocity seems to be more about terminal ballistics than trajectory. Seeking an extra 7 FPS out of a handgun projectile is where things get really silly. There is a clear practical limit to handgun effectiveness. At some point you have to accept that the answer is not 7 more FPS; the answer is "GET A LONG GUN"!
I'm with you GoodOlBoy, the quest for just a little bit more speed becomes counterproductive in short order.

[GoodOlBoy]

Pb2au I have always had a hunger for knowledge. It's why I am considered a "jack or all trades" by some and a "know it all" by others. I don't know it all of course, but when you can have a good conversation on almost any topic some folks get almost irrationally irritated by it. I have built bows, I have driven cars too fast when I was too young to know better, I just can't see the max FPS crowd in that light. I guess I can see how somebody might be retentive enough to want to know what every bullet is traveling, but that still doesn't necessarily equal accuracy. And as for max FPS crowd... I constantly see posts (again not always on cast boolits) about how they exceeded max speed or max load by X or Y. Shortly thereafter I usually see posts with blown guns, and damaged flesh. That is no more a quest for knowledge than a guy redlining a car engine until it blows because he thinks its "cool". And 9 times out of 10 after the gun and load are redlined to detonation I see a "X caliber is weak" or "X brand is horrible" argument by the very same folks.

Gunshots at ranges and accuracy considered mythical were made by men without a working encyclopedic knowledge of the higher mechanics of cast boolit shooting.

GoodOlBoy

[GoodOlBoy]

Petrol let me tell you I have "lobbed" a few in my short time :p

I think part of where my frustration with the FPS crowd comes in is not just in firearms. You can't even have a decent discussion on a archery board these days without the FPS'ers jumping in and wanting you to chrono a bow!

Some very valid points in the discussions so far! Thanks guys! Everybody chime in, I am always interested in any good discussion.

GoodOlBoy

[btroj]

There are places where fps matters.

Long range target shooters want as much speed as possible to reduce wind deflection. Accuracy matters but wind drift will affect end accuracy.

With cast the entire 30XCB concept was to push the envelope with cast bullets regarding speed. Sort of a "what can we do" thing. We are looking to see what it takes to get good accuracy at the top possible velocity.

For most loading I wouldn't be without a chronograph. It told me my 44 mag loads were not getting anywhere near the book velocity, I did some searching and found I have huge cylinder throats. With knowing your velocity how does a varmint shooter really know his trajectory tables are correct?

I am not a promoter of redlining anything. I don't think trying to squeeze another 50 fps is worth an overload but there are times where another 300 fps matters.

In the end it is up to each of us to decide what we want from our shooting.

[GoodOlBoy]

Very true btroj, and your final statement was well said.

I knew something was up with my blackhawk in 45lc when EVERY fifth round was completely out of group. I know I can sometimes pull the trigger, I know I can sometimes push it. But even without a chrono I knew something was up. turned out ONE cylinder throat was cut WAY under spec (ever tried squeezin a .454 sized 250 grain rnfp through a .449 sized throat? I have.) Cylinder got reamed, problem solved.

As for varmint shooting I didn't know we were supposed to be using tables. I have shot varmints at very long ranges with a remmy 700 VTR 223. I know where the point of impact is because I shoot my gun. Couldn't even begin to tell you what my velocities are, but then again I don't reload 223 yet I just use factory ammo. (Speaking of which why o WHY did Wagner Accuswag have to stop loading 62 grain match hps for the 223!)

GoodOlBoy

[Petrol & Powder]

I had access to a chronograph for several years and learned a lot from that tool. One of the things I learned is that speed isn't everything.

Pb2Au -For some people the journey is important. They are intelligent folks that have a thirst for knowledge. I also believe those are not the people that GoodOlBoy is referring to.

btroj - I totally agree that velocity plays an important role in exterior ballistics. When a projectile leaves the barrel it is acted upon by forces, including gravity and wind. The shorter the time that the bullet is in flight from the barrel to the target, the less time those forces will have to act upon that bullet. The only two ways to reduce that time in flight is to reduce the distance to the target or make the bullet go faster. However, there's a practical limit to the gains achieved by increasing velocity. At some point the gains of increased velocity are outweighed by other factors.

I see a lot of people that are obsessed with velocity and I think those are the folks that GoodOlBoy is talking about. Speed is everything to them but they don't know why.

[GoodOlBoy]

Exactly, Petrol said it much better than I have done so far.

GoodOlBoy

[jlchucker]

My sentiments exactly, GoodolBoy. That's how I've always done it. Never had a chrony, and I use published loading data to work up my loads until they get me good groups. I write down every load I try, gun by gun, in a spiral ring notebook. Then I stick with the most accurate load, gun by gun, for everything I shoot out of that gun. I've chrony'd a couple of my loads a couple of times at my gun store's private range, but only because some of the guys that hang out there were chrony-ing their stuff that particular day and wanted to check out mine. It was a pleasant Saturday, so what the heck. I never even bothered to write what came out of the chrony down. I don't feel undergunned with any of my stuff.

[Doc Highwall]

I shoot long range with a 308 Winchester cartridge in my Palma gun with 155 grain bullets, and the velocity needs to be high enough to stay supersonic at 1000 yards. The only way to know this is with a chronograph.

Low extreme spreads of muzzle velocity do not equate to small groups as barrel vibrations are not taken into account, but low extreme spreads reduce vertical spread at long range.

A chronograph is a tool and knowing how to utilize the data that is gathered from it is more important.

[Garyshome]

It is just one of the only reloading tools available, thats all! May not mean much to some but it is important to me!

[Love Life]

The number one answer to the OP is because they can.The more real answer for my purposes is because speed and low ES and SD give me the results I need at range. However, my most accurate long range load for one bullet was not the max load, but the most accurate long range load for another bullet was .2 gr above the max book charge.

[country gent]

I have had a chronograph and used it, not to find top velocity the tatget and load testing finds the best loads for my rifle. I chronograph the best loads so I have the velocity to plug into my ballistics program. With velocity bullet bc and information I can get "Come Ups" out as far as I need for the load and more important I can make wind charts up for the actual load out to whatever range neded. Since my home range only goes to 200 yds the generated zeros for 300, 600, 800, 900, and 1000 yds is a big plus. Another plus is I can use this information and programs to adjust for sea level and ambient condition diffrences on diffrent ranges when traveling to diffrent matches. Its simply another tool to be used. Testing gets more effient with the amount of information data that is available

[dtknowles]

What is the point of owning a .357 Max if you only shoot .357 mag velocities or a .357 mag if you only shoot .38 special velocities. It does go to trajectory and stopping power. FPS matters.

Tim

[GoodOlBoy]

ok FPS matters to some. But if I am loading 357 mag rounds (the last example given as I type this) using 357 data, and I DON'T know the FPS it is actually performing at how does that automatically mean I am shooting at 38 velocities?

GoodOlBoy

[mrbill2]

When I shot NRA pistol silhouette matches I would sometimes get lucky enough to shoot along side the guy that shot his 44 mag. This thing roared and spit fire and lead like an cannon. The targets would seem to fly to the next county. When I ask why, his answer was I LOVE THE RECOIL.
O I shot those same targets and more of them with my 270 Ren.

[GoodOlBoy]

mrbill2 that reminds me of a 80s TV Show. Sledge Hammer. :p

GoodOlBoy

[Love Life]

I DON'T know the FPS it is actually performing at how does that automatically mean I am shooting at 38 velocities?

GoodOlBoy


It doesn't, but you don't know if it is or not. A chronograph is a useful tool. I'd sure hate to be burning up all that extra powder thinking I was shooting some romping and stomping loads only to find out down the road that I was just wasting powder and playing in 38 spl +P territory.


People do things to suit their needs, and I accept that.

[GoodOlBoy]

I am curious as to what is going to be in my neck of the woods that a 357 will stop that a 38+p wouldn't?

GoodOlBoy

[Love Life]

That is a question I can't answer since I don't live in your neck of the woods and is off topic.

[newton]

I think there is a big canyon between knowing what fps your bullet is traveling, and striving for very top end. Two completely different topics really. But both topics could have people who would be considered obsessed with the knowledge.

FPS is like knowing anything else about your load. Its a direct reflection of what your gun, powder, bullet, and sometimes even primer are doing. Its a very useful tool.

One thing I wanted it most for was to know what my hunting rounds were. If you were just shooting at paper, then yes, a knowledge of fps looses some of its usefulness. But when it comes to hunting, a knowledge helps a lot. There are certain velocities that bullets perform better in. Yes, you can just "poke" a hole in an animal, but driving that bullet a little bit harder would be a bit better in some cases. I want the best accuracy, at the highest fps I can achieve. For instance, I get some great accuracy driving one of my boolits at around 1200 fps. I get good accuracy from that same boolit and gun when I drive them at 1950 fps. I use the later for hunting. Trajectory is not so much an issue for me as is knowing the energy that boolit is delivering. And energy does matter.

In ML you find this a lot. Because ML are one of those guns where its real easy to change your charge on the fly, there are different bullets marketed. Now we are talking about the j words here, but it applies. Some bullets are made to open at certain velocities, and other have to reach higher ones. And when you talk about pure lead boolits, velocity also matters.

I think that it is more useful to know rifle fps than it is handgun, except when it comes to hunting again.

The number one reason for me, hunting or target shooting, is the ability to record what my load is doing not just how accurate it is. That way, if in the future I want to use a different powder I can set up a load and quickly see, with one shot, if I am close to duplicating a previous load.

Like what has been said before. It can be taken to extremes, but it can be done both ways.

[Love Life]

FPS are just as important to shooting paper and steel as they are to hunting.

However, FPS are just a piece of the shooting pie.

[dtknowles]

I am curious as to what is going to be in my neck of the woods that a 357 will stop that a 38+p wouldn't?

GoodOlBoy

To me, I think a good hot .357 mag load from a revolver is good for all but the biggest White Tails out to 50 yards but I don't think a .38 SPCL plus P is enough. I think the .357 Mag is marginal that is why I got a .357 Max. Some say a 32-20 is enough and some say the .357 is not enough.

Tim

[Wayne Smith]

All I can tell you is why I bought a Chrono. I have been loading since I was 16, and loading 30-30 wasn't a problem. Adding the 44Mag was easy. The 25-06 had data available. Then came the 40-70BN. Not a lot of information. Loading with BP was easy, going to smokeless was without data. I needed to know what I was accomplishing, I bought a chronograph. Then I was given a cape gun to figure out. Right side is 10.5x47R. The chrono became useful again. Then I got some WC872!

I take the batteries out of it when I use it because I use it so infrequently. It is handy but a pain to set up.

[Forgetful]

For me, finding the max velocity combined with max accuracy for each of my guns, is the Holy Grail of ballistics. Some people are happy with "good enough," but IMO until you push the limits of all variables, there is much more to learn.

[Pb2au]

Gunshots at ranges and accuracy considered mythical were made by men without a working encyclopedic knowledge of the higher mechanics of cast boolit shooting.

GoodOlBoy

I would respectfully submit that if a reloader/shooter of cast boolits is at a range achieving accuracy and ranges of 'mythical' (read high quality/distance) results, then I believe they have a good working knowledge of the same.
Again , people do things because they chose to for a myriad of reason. My example from before sited those here on the board that are doing excellent work pushing the accuracy/speed relationship. They are doing so to fulfill a lot of personal reasons.
Please do not read my statement as 'if you do not push the speed envelope in cast shooting, you are not smart/creative/ or whatever'. It was merely an example.
Some folks here spend countless hours developing lube recipes. Some focus on obsolete ammo recreation. and so on and so forth.
I believe (my opinion here kids) that most just do these things for personal fulfillment, and that pretty good to me.

[5Shot]

Just another data point for your reloading. Bullet, powder charge, OAL, group size, temp, velocity... Some times the accurate loads in a gun will hover around a particular velocity, regardless of powder type, charge weight and pressure. Good to have all the variables covered.

As for me, in hunting rounds, I will take all I can get. I am only shooting a few rounds per year (of the hunting stuff), so the recoil is irrelevant to me, but I get all the performance I can from the round when I need it.

[Goatwhiskers]

GOB, so much of this stuff is personal interest and preference. I've only owned a chrony for 3 years, it gives me useful info, but maybe not critical. I shot my 30/40AI for almost 40 years before I checked the velocity (2200fps). I never worried about it 'cause I know the gun and the cartridge and have never missed a shot out to 350--my personal limit. Shooting a 180RN is not conducive to long range accuracy. If we suddenly quit worrying about things like velocity it would deprive me of my curmudgeonly habit of agitating the hell out of the crowd that has to have the latest magnum with a certain high performance projectile to blow the shoulder off a whitetail buck. The mere fact that my rifle is a single shot at the above velocity and I do not miss and get one shot kills blows their collective minds. I'm a member of the group that believes in one bullet in the right place or I don't take the shot. Anyway, I don't let it bother me if someone wants to study velocity effects, or lubes, or rotational speeds, or any of that technical stuff--makes my brain hurt. GW

[FLHTC]

I like long range varmint shooting. A kill at 800 yards is pretty amazing but I'd never try it on anything other than varmints. Anyway, in order to have enough energy to dispatch a groundhog at 800 yards with a 50 grain bullet, you need substantial muzzle velocity. I want terminal performance at that distance, and not merely penetrating the hide. High velocity gives me that with minimum hold-over. With my 22-250, I load for 3,900 to 4,000 fps. The 220 Swift performs best at the higher end of it's max velocities. That cartridge can be loaded with solids to reach 4,500 fps. Depending on the circumstance, velocity can make a huge difference in performance.

[tazman]

I used to load high velocity for varmints. After I burned out my first 22-250 barrel I gave that up.
Now, since I am loading mostly pistol and revolver, I go for accuracy. I developed a load/boolit combination for my revolver that gives wonderful accuracy. After months of shooting that load I decided to chronograph it. It turned out to be a nice easy shooting midrange load with no special attributes except one. The extreme spreads and standard deviations were terrible. Yet I can consistently shoot the center out of the target with that load at my normal ranges.
I might not work well for long range, but that isn't what I do. I am still trying to get good enough to shoot as well as my gun does. Soft to midrange loads work for me.

[HATCH]

I have worked up a few loads over the years.
My SOP is that I shoot factory loaded rounds across the chrony to get a target velocity.
This give me a idea of the velocity that I need to be near in order to have a factory type load provided I stick with around the same weight boolit.

I do multiple loads with 2/10 th of a grain difference between each load.
If the book shows Unique powder starting loads at 4.0 and ending at 5.0 then I start at 3.8 and go up to 5.2
I do ten rounds per load and I cover the entire recommended range.
Then once I get all of this data, I calculate the average velocity (FPS) and I calculate the standard deviation (SD).
What I want is a load that is near my target velocity yet has the lowest SD.
The lower the SD the better the groups will be as they will all be about the same velocity.

For the most part a lower SD will mean a more accurate load however there are other factors like bullet stabilization at certain velocities that come into play when dealing with rifles that need to be considered.

[twc1964]

I can speak only for myself, but my loads are worked up with a near factory velocities for a given bullet weight because i feel that if i am ever forced to defend my self and my family against any and all intruders, id like to be used to shooting full powered loads at that time. I wouldnt want to have a shtf thing happen and only have low to mid velocity offerings available to me. Thats just me though, ymmv

[newton]

I think the thing, that may or may not have been stated here already in different terms, is that a lot of guys use it to see if their load is close to factory loads.

Why does that matter? Well, factory ammunition is usually a direct test of many different loads and settled in on the best they found. Many more loads than most of us shoot in a lifetime. We do it for fun, they do it for profit. If our loads match closely to the factory loads then we can tell we are probably in a good ball park. Even though they generally use the j stuff, it still works the same.

Most factories don't load ammo just to see how fast they can push a bullet. They load for good overall performance.

What's interesting is that I generally see that people on here that are indeed loading for speed, to see how fast they can push a boolit, are doing it for fun. They do not look down on the guy who does not want to push the envelope. I think you see it in every part of life. The guys that try to keep things simple end up usually being irritated(or something to that effect) with the guys who want to try new and different things. Its from the beginning of time. Resistance to change/tradition.

[JSnover]

It depends on what you need. I don't need high velocity out of my BPCR rifle because I only shoot to 200 yards. I keep mine under 1000 fps to avoid beating myself up and to avoid turbulence by not letting the boolit go transonic.

[John Boy]

A lot of people do chase speed though.Me! I shoot BPCR reloads long range, 700 to 1000yds with 500 + gr bullets. I want a reload with BP to go the least subsonic at long range for 2 factors: trajectory and ability of bullet to minimize wind deflection

[seaboltm]

If fps don't matter, load your CB loads to minimum data and fire away. Better yet, since fps dont matter, don't use any powder at all. Of course fps matters. The question is how much matters. That depends on bullet mass, size, range of target and other variables.

[Yodogsandman]

Like you, I work up my loads for accuracy, too. I also want the highest velocity for hunting ammo, though. I don't check my loads normally now, until I have found the most accurate load. I'll try a few different powders to find the best accuracy and the fastest velocity. This is also normally the lowest SD and ES from my prior tests. Single digit SD's and ES are nice to have! You just don't know without a chronograph. You should try one out and then make up your mind if you
need it or not.

[pworley1]

There are so many great aspects to casting and reloading, and every person is not necessarily interested in every aspect. I don't worry much about fps but I have saved a lot of time, powder and lead from reading the results shared by those who do. I think there is enough to learn enjoy and share about this great hobby for everyone. Find what you like and enjoy yourself.

[41mag]

Personally I wouldn't cal it an obsession, more of what is the top end on a particular firearm with what ever components I am trying in it at the time.

Do I load all my ammo to top end max loads, not at all, but I at least know when I use a 240gr bullet in my 44 that X amount of 296 is going to get it to Y velocity without me having to drive the cases out of the cylinder.

Same with my rifle loads, I work each of them up to the point I consider a "MAX" load. Then I at least know where I am at with regard to dumping in X grs of powder under Y weight bullet.

There are reasons one might want to sneak up to a max load and plenty of them depending on just what you use your firearm for. For punching paper at 100yds not a real issue to use even reduced loads, but like mentioned above reaching out past 500 for paper or even a hunting load things become quite different. You have to consider what the envelope is for expansion of the bullet, some jacketed will not reliably expand under 1800fps, and some cast might only be able to be shot at this velocity. Either way the velocity also translates into applied energy once it hit something solid, and if the bullets aren't expanding that something may or may not go down. While this isn't as big a deal with a white tail, something that might want to hurt you back it might become a big deal real fast.

But to sum it all up, like most here I usually load for accuracy first, but I have a couple of rifles and handguns that I specifically purchased or had built to get all I could out of. If I didn't want to get more performance I would have simply stuck to the regular calibers, and not bothered with the magnums. I have the magnums to run at magnum velocity not to download into something I already have. The one somewhat exception to that is my AI calibers, where I do load above the standard caliber loads. There again though the entire point of purchasing them was to gain velocity, and they are very accurate as well on the upper end of the scale. Do they kill a deer or hog any better than the standard caliber at 50yds, probably not, but with the 14" Contender barrels they do better at 150-200, and the 25-06 AI does it better at 350-500, than the standard one I already had, and with heavier bullets.

[mrbill2]

Well I figure if they can kill it with a stick and a string, I can kill it with anything I load..:bigsmyl2:

[swheeler]

I think it is human nature, like buying a car and sticking your foot in it to see what it'll do;-)

[GoodOlBoy]

So some good arguments for using FPS as a factor in reloading. I can see that. I think folks who suggest that just because I am not interested in knowing that data I shouldn't use powder are a bit off. I mean heck I don't want a bullet stuck in a barrel, AND that WOULD be below minimum factory load data. I guess part of my confusion comes from that fact that many of the calibers I load are loaded in such a manner that you really can't effect FPS much anyway. IE a 45-70 405gr loaded over a case of black powder...

The idea that a 357 is good for deer, but a 38 isn't confuses me, but maybe that's because of how many deer I have seen taken with a 22 long rifle.

I whole heartedly agree that if you can bow shoot it, I can kill it with my handloads.

As for the guys copying almost mythical shots, I see very few reloaders recreating black powder shots at a mile. See History>Adobe Walls>Bill Dixon for more information on ONE example. Although many do agree it was ONLY 9/10ths of a mile (Nelson Miles claimed it only measured 1,538 yards) with a 50-70 or a 50-90 so I guess it isn't THAT impressive. I bet if he had known the FPS he coulda gotta whole mile outa the shot.

Heck for that matter I bet if all the old men who use to stand around shooting twine strings in two, or lighting matches stuck in fenceposts with 22 rifles when I was a kid had ONLY known their FPS they could have done sooo much more.

FPS Is a tool in a toolbox. I will grant you there have been some VERY valid arguments to that, particularly in a round where load data is sketchy at best. I still don't see it as the Holy Grail factor folks make it out to be, although again i will grant if that is the ONLY factor you care about and you can do it there you go.

GoodOlBoy

[Love Life]

You made it out to be the holy grail in this thread. Not the responders.

[garym1a2]

In USPSA (Action handgun sports) you load for min speed not max speed. For minor its 125Pf or more. For major its 165 PF (825fps@200gr). The ideal is the lower the speed the faster you can shoot multiple targets.
Myself I find a 40S&W very pleasant to shoot at minor loads and 40S&W hot loads not so fun.

[GoodOlBoy]

Love Life I am not saying the responders in this thread made it out to be the Holy Grail. Far from it most have given good information and good logical reasons for their need for the data. I am saying there are MANY people out there who DO consider it the Holy Grail, even in archery.

GoodOlBoy

[Yodogsandman]

Advancements made in archery equipment in the past 30+ years has almost doubled the available speed of "over the counter bows". It's been a race for more and more speed. It's all about shooting an arrow further with increased accuracy. They're taking the "arch" out of archery!

[btroj]

In some situations FPS is the holy grail. A Palma shooter NEEDS a certain muzzle velocity to ensure his bullet remains super sonic all the way to the 1000 yard line.
An IPSC shooter NEEDS a certain fps to make sure he makes the power factor.

There are some cases where just thinking isn't gonna cut it. Just because you don't encounter those situations doesn't mean they don't exist.

Extrapolating your own needs and experiences to others often makes for heated discussions. My needs may well be vastly different from yours and the fact you aren't aware of those differences isn't a flaw in my shooting. Just saying.

[waco]

Well I just traveled 150 feet, round trip, in a matter of about 45 seconds to retrieve a cold beer from the shop. The important part about this was there was no delay of my travel by the Mrs. while retrieving said cold beer.

Had I slowed down my pace to lets say 150 feet in one minute thirty seconds, thing could have been much worse.

The wife could have spotted me, stopped me, and talked my ear off delaying cold beer consumption for possibly 15-20 minutes.

So yes. FPS do indeed matter a great deal from time to time.

Waco

[firefly1957]

It is nice to know your load velocity but knowing your load is more useful . I have a chronograph and have been surprised at velocities normally they are lower then expected. I have a couple guns/loads i have never timed the loads work well and i am happy .

[Petrol & Powder]

Well I just traveled 150 feet, round trip, in a matter of about 45 seconds to retrieve a cold beer from the shop. The important part about this was there was no delay of my travel by the Mrs. while retrieving said cold beer.

Had I slowed down my pace to lets say 150 feet in one minute thirty seconds, thing could have been much worse.

The wife could have spotted me, stopped me, and talked my ear off delaying cold beer consumption for possibly 15-20 minutes.

So yes. FPS do indeed matter a great deal from time to time.

Waco

I will concede that in such missions, FPS are critical to the success of the mission.

[leadman]

I shoot loads that are low velocity and also high velocity. I also have been testing alternative coatings for cast boolits. I have combined the testing of the coatings at high velocity (over 3,600 fps) just to see if it can be done and what the results are.
I use a Chrony to record the velocity of all my loads, and have spiral notebooks full of this data from the last 15 years or more.
My current quest is high velocity with different coatings or lubes to see if the accuracy can be improved. I do have some loads that equal or exceed jacketed bullet velocity and accuracy.
If there were not people who did not push the envelope we would still be using matchlocks with stones for projectiles.
Not saying everyone should do this as it is very good to have a diverse population doing different things. Who was the first person to figure out that fire would cook the meat the tribe just killed?

[Forgetful]

Who was the first person to figure out that fire would cook the meat the tribe just killed?

I'm sure it was some kind of revolt against the establishment about how bad the food was, and burned it out of protest. That smelled gooooood. And it saved the tribe!

Knowing the FPS is useful because you could have a direct blowback and be stuck at 1250fps no matter how much charge you have. Back off until it starts dropping... That's the max end. Back off more and velocity drops off slow.. and when it begins to abruptly drop off, somewhere between that and your max will be a sweetspot.

[dtknowles]

.............The idea that a 357 is good for deer, but a 38 isn't confuses me, but maybe that's because of how many deer I have seen taken with a 22 long rifle........
GoodOlBoy

Those deer taken with a 22 long rifle. Were they head shots, it think that is the only way to take a deer humanely with a 22 LR. I was considering a lung or chest/shoulder shot. I would not attempt a headshot on a deer with a revolver at the ranges I was considering and I was indicating a general guideline not some hard fast rule. Some states do have a rule against .22 LR for deer hunting.

Tim

[GoodOlBoy]

Oh Texas has laws against doing it (mostly neck shots btw) but it is still not all that an uncommon practice by some. I don't do it because honestly I can't make that shot count like i would need to be able to. When I was younger and my eyes were better and my hands more steady I probably could have, but never had to because I always had access to a caliber or gauge that would do the job better.

I think Waco has the most reasonable post on needs to know FPS. Just saying :p

I am not saying it is wrong, and I certainly am not trying to say that any way is dead wrong so long as it is safe. What I was saying was in situations were it wasn't required (such as shooting matches where you must be above or below a certain velocity) it seemed people were dead set on requiring it. I just didn't understand the obsession. That's what I have said from the start. I still can't say I understand it in all situations, but there it is, some VERY good arguments and information has been made for knowing that data. I never wanted a heated argument, I was looking for a good discussion and some good information and I would say I have gotten both several times over.

In the end I have also come to realize that I am also obsessed with my own ways of reloading, casting, and shooting so who am I to judge fellers on the way they want to do it? I guess it comes down to (for me at least) what so many other skills come down to. There is the art, and there is the science. Neither is mutually exclusive, nor inclusive. I think of most things from the art standpoint and not the science standpoint.

I still stand by my belief that so long as your method and mine are both safe then who can say which is better if the results are what we both want out of our methods.

Great conversation.

GoodOlBoy

[FLHTC]

Love Life I am not saying the responders in this thread made it out to be the Holy Grail. Far from it most have given good information and good logical reasons for their need for the data. I am saying there are MANY people out there who DO consider it the Holy Grail, even in archery.

GoodOlBoy

I must agree with that. There are large game hunters that feel they need belted magnums to harvest a deer and because they bought one, now they will be more successful. I never saw the need to break 3,000 fps with my deer rifles and more often than not, they were loaded in the 2,800 range.

[Doc Highwall]

I love it when I hear people talk about managed recoil ammo for their magnum rifle, my response is why didn't you buy a 308 or 30-06 in the first place with the ammo being cheaper.

[303Guy]

I had a need (desire) to know my velocity. I had worked it out from the loading tables and by using bullet drop at different known ranges and plugging those into a ballistics program. I finally bought a chrony. Two years later I decided I should actually use it and yes, my estimations were dead on. I also found out what my paper patched loads were doing in my Brits. Am I struck on maximum velocity? You betcha! Did I use the chrony for load development? No. But I do know that subsonic 22lr's do 1050 fps just like it says on the box. The rabbits still die just the same as before.

A number of years back I built a chronograph and with it I found that my favourite load had a very consistent velocity (as in ES of 3 fps). But more useful to me was establishing the load to velocity curves for different powders. One powder had a sharply increasing curve as charges went up. The another had a shallow and steady curve. That was the powder with the low ES (in two rifles). I've lost those recordings now though. So how useful were these findings really? Well, it told me the one powder was best avoided and that the loads should be kept moderate. It also told me my two rifle loads were right on the money. But I already knew that from the dead critters. It was just nice to know.

I also learned how fast MK VIII 303 Brit machine gun ammo was. But most interestingly, I learned I can get stunning velocity with a heavy boolit from a 14.6 inch barrelled 303 Brit using paper patch boolits and a slow powder (194gr @ 2040fps). The new loads however are much milder and show promise of being very accurate but I haven't chrono'd them yet. I want around 1800 fps but more would be great since the gun is for pigs and large deer. I initially tested the boolit performance using impact and penetration tests.

I'm not saying I'm not obsessed with velocity, I am. It's just too hard to do the measuring!

[gnoahhh]

A wise old man told me once that the bullet only needs enough velocity to make it to the target. Once it passes through the paper, it's all wasted energy. Since 99.9% of our shots are at non-game targets, that makes a lot of sense to me.

[Garyshome]

I just used my Crony yesterday on some .40 S&W. I always use it to make sure I'm in spec for that load using a different powder.

[Larry Gibson]

I guess I do have an "obsession" with "fps"......a certain amount is required to get the bullet out of the barrel............

In rifles;

I shoot a lot of "cat's sneeze" loads with very light cast bullets (for the cartridge) over very light charges of very fast burning powder (mostly Bullseye) at velocities of 300 - 1000 fps in about every cartridge (22 Hornet to 45-70 with most calibers represented in between) I load cast bullets for (a lot and I have about 90 moulds currently). Economy and acceptable accuracy is looked for here with the "fun factor" in shooting such being the most important objective.

I shoot a lot of "reduced loads" in the 1100 - 2000+ fps range in most all of those cartridges too. Here again economy is an important consideration with "best accuracy" across the intended shooting range being the goal. The idea is to get as much quality bang for the buck as I can.

In a few of those cartridges I also will push the velocity above 2000 fps to a current 2700 fps while maintain accuracy. I do this to enhance the field performance and simply for further study of what we may actually be able to accomplish with regular cast bullets to learn more. This is done with the idea of long range target shooting and hunting big game and varmints in mind. In long range target shooting higher velocity is an important consideration for better scores. When hunting I have come to dislike using a minimal level of power preferring instead to use the higher end of "adequate" power if not the full power the cartridge is capable of for the game at hand. As Doc Highpower insinuates; why should I have a 30-30 to hunt with and then load it down to 32-40 or even 32-20 lesser capability? Yes. that lesser capability may "do" many times in some hunting situations but it won't "do" many times in many situations where I hunt.

In handguns;

I also shoot many more reduced loads in all my magnum handguns with cast bullets for general shooting. However, when hunting with those magnum cartridges you can bet the "fps" is very near the top end of the cartridge and firearms capability while staying within safe pressures. You can also bet the loads are "accurate". With standard hand gun cartridges I most often load them to the "standard" fps the cartridge/firearm was designed for. I found long ago that the best accuracy usually is found there.

As to "fps" relating to internal ballistics I do not chase low SDs and ESs for the sake of low numbers. I've had chronographs (I have 3 Oehler chronographs) since '74 and have found them to be very useful tools for load development and further ballistic knowledge of the ammunition I create. No you don't need a chronograph to load good ammunition but it sure helps in the long run. I learned a long time ago from experience and very useful and considerate information from Dr. Oehler that chasing a lower SD or ES is meaningless unless you can demonstrate consistent performance with such a load. A low SD or ES from a 3 or even 5 shot test string is basically meaningless. With a sufficient test sample you can have very low SD and ES's and yet have poor accuracy. On the other hand you will not have (at least more than once) good accuracy with a load (again with a sufficient test sample at a sufficient range) that has a poor SD and ES.

Also in numerous instances "best accuracy" is not required. Plinking, shooting rocks on the berm and even when hunting deer/elk etc. "best accuracy" is not needed. At most ranges (less than 200 yards for 95+ % of the deer/elk taken) a rifle/load capable of 2 -3 moa will kill deer/elk all day long if the hunter can shoot. Trying to shave that down to 1 moa is fun and most of us like to do it ("obsession") but is it really necessary.....no, it's not. I'll take a 2 - 3 moa 2200 - 2400 fps cast bullet load (proper bullet of proper alloy) out of my M94 30-30 rifle over a sub 1 moa 1650 fps load any day to hunt deer or elk with. The terminal performance far out ways the slight, and meaningless, loss of accuracy when the terminal ballistics are considered. Yes the 1650 fps load will certain kill deer/elk and dead is dead but the point is; just how long it takes to get "dead". A deer/elk can go a long ways and be lost or another hunter can get the deer/elk where I hunt if not put down very quickly. I prefer to use the most "fps" available with the bullet/cartridge/firearm for the job at hand. I will sacrifice a bit of accuracy (as long as it remains good which is not "best" but not poor enough to miss with either) for the extra power the "fps" gets me.

Bottom line is I guess I am "obsessed" with fps because I have an "obsession" with shooting cast bullets and some "fps" is required to get the cast bullet out of the barrel. It's as simple as that.


Larry Gibson

[303Guy]

Well I'd say that knowing velocity may not be necessary but it could be useful or just helpful but more importantly, it's fun!:D

[texaswoodworker]

One of the best groups I ever made was with a 30-06 with a 190gr cast bullet at 1800 fps. That load was fine for 100 yard plinking. If I tried shooting out to 300-400 yards with that load, it would drop faster than a North Korean space shuttle. :D

Sometimes, you do need more speed.

Now, shooting 55gr .224" bullets out of my 30-06 with a sabot at 4300 fps serves no purpose other than just being stupid fun. :P

[Doc Highwall]

Good write up Larry!

[nekshot]

this is a funny thread, all I can say is when I was a 17 year old kid why did I pop the clutch at 5500 rpm and take it up to about 8000 rpm and never lift off the throttle till in 4th gear? Because it was fun!!!!

[tazman]

this is a funny thread, all I can say is when I was a 17 year old kid why did I pop the clutch at 5500 rpm and take it up to about 8000 rpm and never lift off the throttle till in 4th gear? Because it was fun!!!!

Been there, done that. Somehow I actually survived long enough to become an old man.:bigsmyl2:

[leadman]

I do like hunting elk with my Encore in 7mm Rem Mag with (GASP) jacketed bullets. A 150gr at 3,300 fps needs very little hold over until out there around 400 yards. Even at 472 yards it only took one shot and the elk dropped within a few feet.

[robg]

i load for accuracy ,who cares how fast if it misses what you aim at

[JSnover]

Bottom line is I guess I am "obsessed" with fps because I have an "obsession" with shooting cast bullets and some "fps" is required to get the cast bullet out of the barrel. It's as simple as that.


Larry Gibson
A long time ago I met a man named Loring Hall, who told me "as long as they don't get stuck in the target, that's fast enough." After that I stopped buying Hornady Light Magnum for my 30-06 and started loading light for 45-70.

[MT Gianni]

Most non casters are concerned about fps because the faster a bullet goes the more you can minimize holdover. Then the less you worry about range estimation. In the heavy stuff a long shot on game may be 60 yards, in the west a cross canyon shot may range from 150 to 500+ yards. The faster you push a bullet the less you have to worry about holdover.
The pistol regimens that emphasize fps IMO, do so so that felt recoil and recovery time are equalized to all shooter in that category. Lastly if I have a book load that shows no pressure signs and it is 200 fps faster than the book says I had better know more about my gun and load.

[1Shirt]

Overall, an interesting thread! However, IMO, all of the opinions are based on combinations of factors, most of which have a human element. Therein lies the problem.
1Shirt!

[dtknowles]

Overall, an interesting thread! However, IMO, all of the opinions are based on combinations of factors, most of which have a human element. Therein lies the problem.
1Shirt!

Or there in lies the beauty. Personal choice, road less traveled, just for the fun, got a real need. Freedom is beautiful.

Tim

[geargnasher]

I would respectfully submit that if a reloader/shooter of cast boolits is at a range achieving accuracy and ranges of 'mythical' (read high quality/distance) results, then I believe they have a good working knowledge of the same.
Again , people do things because they chose to for a myriad of reason. My example from before sited those here on the board that are doing excellent work pushing the accuracy/speed relationship. They are doing so to fulfill a lot of personal reasons.
Please do not read my statement as 'if you do not push the speed envelope in cast shooting, you are not smart/creative/ or whatever'. It was merely an example.
Some folks here spend countless hours developing lube recipes. Some focus on obsolete ammo recreation. and so on and so forth.
I believe (my opinion here kids) that most just do these things for personal fulfillment, and that pretty good to me.

Being one of the cast bullet throttle jockeys, I'll say that both of your posts on this thread describe the "why" very well. Thank you.

Some of us get our jollies by identifying things that we perceive as problems and formulating solutions. Some people buy books full of Sodoku puzzles or New York Times crosswords, others spend their time and money trying to see how close to normal jacketed bullet accuracy and velocity they can get with cast bullets.

Still, exactly like Larry described above, I enjoy a wide spectrum of the cast bullet experience. Some of my casting, loading, and shooting activities are purely for casual entertainment, some for effectively putting meat on the table, some are chosen for the intellectual stimulation, and some to improve my actual shooting skills. I may come off as elitist at times, but that is unintentional. A difficult journey through uncharted territory has a singular way of becoming an obsession. Whatever way a person chooses to pursue their cast bullet hobby is all good as long as they are being safe and enjoying themselves.

Gear

[tazman]

Being one of the cast bullet throttle jockeys, I'll say that both of your posts on this thread describe the "why" very well. Thank you.

Some of us get our jollies by identifying things that we perceive as problems and formulating solutions. Some people buy books full of Sodoku puzzles or New York Times crosswords, others spend their time and money trying to see how close to normal jacketed bullet accuracy and velocity they can get with cast bullets.

Still, exactly like Larry described above, I enjoy a wide spectrum of the cast bullet experience. Some of my casting, loading, and shooting activities are purely for casual entertainment, some for effectively putting meat on the table, some are chosen for the intellectual stimulation, and some to improve my actual shooting skills. I may come off as elitist at times, but that is unintentional. A difficult journey through uncharted territory has a singular way of becoming an obsession. Whatever way a person chooses to pursue their cast bullet hobby is all good as long as they are being safe and enjoying themselves.

Gear

I like that. Very well put.

[GoodOlBoy]

One of the things I have really enjoyed about this thread so far is that even those who claim to have the obsession are not responding or discussing things the way those I originally mentioned would have done so. Everybody is instead giving good valid reasoning, and have made this an incredible discussion!

GoodOlBoy

[btroj]

There are idiots who are obsessed with making an 06 into a 300 Win Mag. Those are the guys who scare the heck out of me. Load manuals? They don't need no steenking load manuals. Thankfully those guys don't tend to shoot cast.

Many of my loads are not chrono'd. I have no clue on their velocity. Some I have chrono'd just for my own knowledge. There are some where I work to meet a velocity goal. Each load has a use and if velocity matters the. I worry over it, if it doesn't then I measure it for my own information.

The guys with magnumitis are, luckily, a small portion of shooters overall. Bad thing is that they tend to be loud, obnoxious, and at the range a bunch. These are the guys who hang out at gunshops and spew their "knowledge" for all who will listen, and even those who won't!

[Love Life]

"Mama!! I'm going fast!!!"

-Ricky Bobby

[dubber123]

I tend to lean on the gas a bit with most of my loads. I have personally had better results, Ie. cleaner burning, lower velocity swings, and better overall accuracy with loads on the "warm" side. There are exceptions of course, and it doesn't take long to find them with a particular firearm. I find the guys who insist on loading as light as possible as entertaining as the ones who must have that last single fps.

[TXGunNut]

I don't use my Chrony to chase velocity, I use it to chase accuracy. It's also good to know the velocity of a hunting load to calculate energy and bullet drop at hunting distances. It's also good to know if the boolit if going too fast for a number of reasons.

[45 2.1]

Semi-automatic rifles don't operate with cast at low velocity too well or not at all. I do like using them on prairie dogs at long range also, so that requires very good accuracy also. There is a place for everything in the scheme of shooting. Bolt guns became boring.............. at low velocity.

[Tackleberry41]

There are some that FPS is everything, I admit there was a time when I first started loading, I went for near max on some loads. I loaded for a long time without a chrony, went with book loads, never had a problem. They are safe, but your just guessing on velocity, and you sort of need that to use the ballistics tables, or plug it into a computer and come up with some numbers. Yea you can go off the book, but now that I have a chrony find they are seldom what the book says.

Then I started messing with subsonic ammo, yea you can fire a round and say yea no crack its subsonic, but how much? Maybe that load works today, but then when its hot or cold, it isnt. Or you load some and find well a few are not subsonic, your right there on the edge and a little deviation your over. Or maybe you can go hotter, its all guessing and wasting ammo. Now I can ran a round over the chrony and go well now I know, I need to drop a few 10ths of a grain, or I have a little room and can add a little. No more guess work.

I dont use my chrony to get some absolute maximum, I find a good load, I will chrony so I know. And if you start messing with something thats not in a book. Your going to find plenty of 45 colt numbers in the book, but almost always out of a pistol, you go pushing them down more barrel, those numbers are worthless. No chrony, who knows. A chrony was one of my better reloading investments.

[1Shirt]

Many years ago when we were in a muzzle loading phase, BTroj and I were playing with a 58 cal musket and minie's seeing just how small a charge would still propel a projectile to 100 yds. If memory serves me right, we got down to about 5gr. of 3F, and quit there. Standing behind the shooter, you could see the minie in flight. It was sort of a bang, pause, thump type of thing, and would really like to know the time to target. And, believe it or not, even with only a 5 gr charge, we had one Minie stick in a 2x4.
1Shirt!

[MBTcustom]

Personally, its about seeing what can be done with cast lead. I've shot thousands of boolits at normal speeds and I got bored with it. My first challenge I set for myself was to be able to shoot a 1" 5 shot group at 100 yards off hand with a Marlin 30-30. It took me two five gallon buckets of COWW to do it, and a lot of discipline, but I succeeded. Went on to other calibers and got to where I can work up acceptable hunting loads easily, and accurate target loads were no problem either. What I wanted in an accurate target load was 25 shots inside 2" at 100 yards. I got bored with that. I needed something to stimulate my mind. A new frontier to explore.
The first time I started shooting with fps being my goal was when I discovered the 358 Winchester and worked up to 2400fps with accuracy. That was fun, but there was still speed there I couldn't tap because I ran out of case capacity. I started building rifles for the purpose and seeing how fast they could be shot, and I even built several for members of the site and testing different theories of the HS cast boolit.
its been a wild ride with lots of wins, and several disappointments, but all in all very mentally stimulating.
FPS is not the only unit of measure that people dedicate themselves to pushing. There are several here who are interested only in high RPM, and emphasize that facet rather than FPS.
Others focus on boolit expansion. Some look only at group size. Some require a combination of these.
The point is, it's human nature to find limits and then find ways to trample those limits and push further. It's one of the best parts of being human. But in order to do that, you must have a standard of measure by which to judge failure and success by. Otherwise we are all winners and get graded on a curve, which is extremely lame.
With chronographs being cheap enough that almost anyone can afford them, FPS (and calculated from that, RPM) has become a very popular unit of measure.

Some people drive a Prius to work, but build and race dirt track on the weekends. They too are very concerned with RPM and MPH even though it is the last thing on their minds when they are driving to their 9-5 jobs. For me, when I'm hunting, the last thing on my mind is FPS, RPM, group size, or any other sundry detail I ponder when shooting. All I'm concerned with is that first cold bore shot (as in singular). Totally different objective. However, all the work I did with he aforementioned parameters can give me a much improved range of confidence in that in that moment of truth.
You are right though. There comes a time to quit experimenting and shoot a lot to get to know a standard load. I have done this with both of the rifles I hunt with. I got all the fussing and pitling done with a long time ago, so I can just grab my gun and make it happen.
However, there are some guns (like the XCB rifles) that I never intend to hunt with. They are designed and built to find the limits and push them. Their only purpose for me is a test bed to see what does or does not work. Therefore, FPS and RPM are constantly considered. They are nothing more than units of measure. Just like ten-thousandths of an inch, minutes and seconds of angle etc etc etc. which has nothing directly to do with practical hunting accuracy.

[Newtire]

Pb2au I have always had a hunger for knowledge. It's why I am considered a "jack or all trades" by some and a "know it all" by others. I don't know it all of course, but when you can have a good conversation on almost any topic some folks get almost irrationally irritated by it. I have built bows, I have driven cars too fast when I was too young to know better, I just can't see the max FPS crowd in that light. I guess I can see how somebody might be retentive enough to want to know what every bullet is traveling, but that still doesn't necessarily equal accuracy. And as for max FPS crowd... I constantly see posts (again not always on cast boolits) about how they exceeded max speed or max load by X or Y. Shortly thereafter I usually see posts with blown guns, and damaged flesh. That is no more a quest for knowledge than a guy redlining a car engine until it blows because he thinks its "cool". And 9 times out of 10 after the gun and load are redlined to detonation I see a "X caliber is weak" or "X brand is horrible" argument by the very same folks.

Gunshots at ranges and accuracy considered mythical were made by men without a working encyclopedic knowledge of the higher mechanics of cast boolit shooting.

GoodOlBoyDifferent strokes for different folks. Good to not be mandated by anyone to be forced into doing anything. If someone wants to chrono and someone doesn't-just shows we live in a free country. I myself like to know about how fast my boolits are going so nice to have a chrony for me.

[TXGunNut]

A Chrony and a good spotting scope are two of my favorite pieces of shooting equipment. Without them I do a lot of guessing and I'm not very good at guessing. If I don't know exactly what's going on I waste a lot of time and components and both are precious these days.

[GoodOlBoy]

Yeah a good spotting scope is a must when your eyes are going like mine are.

GoodOlBoy

[obssd1958]

I may be mistaken, but for me, I use the chrony to find at what fps my loads for a specific cartridge get more accurate. If I then have a different component that I want to try, I have a velocity range to start my load work up at (if it's a safe range for the components that I have chosen, of course).
It's worked pretty well so far!

and of course - YMMV!!!!

[Harter66]

I use the chrony to chase speed but in just a couple of rifles because we have to meet a minimum 100 yd energy for big game rifles. Weird things can happen when you have all the numbers to meet that requirement, like a 223 with a 55gr boat tail makes it with 64 lbft and a 45-70 misses by 6 lbft . Mind you that happens at the extremes but it does happen. I have a spire point 200 gr boolit and it comes closer to the 1910 fps in a x39 than the 06'. It was also interesting to see a pp'd boolit out run a jacketed lighter bullet in a minor wildcat.

[detox]

I use my chroni just to check velocity...grouping matters most. I am getting good at estimating velocity by felt recoil and not using the chroni. I can feel the difference between 1400, 1800, and 2200fps from my 308 rifle. Without my chroni I would not know this.

Chroni is weird, but cool tool. I purchased my cheap chroni thru Wal Mart.

[GLynn41]

I find it interesting-- as an example sometimes a harder lube is a little faster than soft does it matter not really but I find it interesting- I use it to help with my shooting distance- as i check accuracy= when it falls below a certain velocity--- i know where that is at -- often an accurate load has a small es but not always -- I find that interesting- and I use it to protect me-- I tried a load of H335 with the 250 speer and got way too much velocity-- It resized fine--looked fine as to primer-- i did not measure the the pressure ring because the chrono told me no go-- each his own I like having a chrono

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

As a good friend says "Speed Kills...".