Salvage a .22 pistol that's been through a fire?

[fatelk]

A friend has an old High Standard HD Military .22 pistol that went through a fire decades ago. It's been sitting in a box ever since and now he wonders if it could possibly be salvaged.

He and the gun are several hours away so I can't look at it myself, but he says that there are patches of bluing remaining, the grips are either burned off or missing, and the main spring feels weak when he cycles the slide.

Yes, I know the textbook answer: scrap metal. Some loss of spring tension is a clear indication that it got too hot.

I also know the standard internet answer: Dont do it! U will blow urself up and die! You can't replace your exploded head! Danger Will Robinson! Run away! It must be destroyed, right now, or someone five generations from now will die and it will be your fault! etc., etc....

I knew I was likely to get more mature responses here from some experienced and knowledgeable people. What do you think? I'm cautious about this kind of stuff myself because I do have a basic understanding of metallurgy, but at the same time it's not a .30-06 or a .357 magnum. It's a heavy barrel .22lr. I ask the question respectfully- please don't beat me up too bad if it's a dumb question and you think it should be scrapped immediately, for posterity. :)

[Alan in Vermont]

I would try to resurrect it. That is if springs are available.

[dubber123]

I'd replace the springs and shoot away happily. Gun steel isn't the high tensile stuff many make it out to be. Saw into a few barrels and you will see what I mean.

I had a Chinese SKS that burnt all but about an inch of the butt stock off. I cleaned it up, replaced the stock, and after a "long string" test firing, used it for several years. It was actually one of the more accurate SKS's I have ever had. I'm sure under certain circumstances it could go poorly, but I don't think a bull barreled .22 is one of them.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

The pistol may be salvageable. Springs can be replaced if necessary as parts are still available through various sources. From a metallurgical viewpoint steel can be tested i.e. the barrel and/or the bolt to determine if there is any significant damage. Especially a heavy barreled gun is not likely to be blown up by a .22, but some testing can be done to determine if the repeated recoil will have any effect impact wise on the slide or bolt if the metal is found to be softened by the heat. HS HD militarys are not cheap to come by and have excellent reputations so the problem is certainly worth looking into. LLS

[nhrifle]

I've restored quite a few firearms that had been through a fire, though I did make the customer sign a waiver of liability for the high pressure cartridge models. A .22LR would not have me too concerned unless the heat from the fire got bad enough that the frame, slide, or barrel warped. The finish is repairable and parts are replaceable. Numrich and Brownell's have what you need.

Those High Standards are fine pistols and it would be a shame to just let that one sit in a box. They are not too hard to work on, but it would be handy if you were able to grow a third hand when the time comes to reassemble the sear and hammer.

[HeavyMetal]

If it didn't get hot enough to have the front sight fall off your good to go, springs can get "soft" just sitting cocked, LOL!


I'd clean it up and shoot it

[joatmon]

I have a couple long guns that went through a house fire. One is a Browning Sweet Sixteen that was Dads and a Ted Williams 30-30 that was my brothers. All wood and plastic was completely gone and barrels had warped. I'll allways have them cause I used em for rebar when I poured my shop floor!

Aaron

[fatelk]

Thanks everyone. I see Numrich has springs and grips. I'll get a chance to take a look at it next month. We'll see what we can do with it.


I have a couple long guns that went through a house fire. One is a Browning Sweet Sixteen that was Dads and a Ted Williams 30-30 that was my brothers. All wood and plastic was completely gone and barrels had warped. I'll allways have them cause I used em for rebar when I poured my shop floor!

I don't think this one got quite that hot! That stinks to lose a couple nice guns like that. The re-purposing as rebar reminds me of a lodge along a wild & scenic river I used to hike many years ago, accessible only by boat or air. On one wall there used to be (maybe still is) an old M2 .50 cal machine gun with a bent barrel, poured right into the concrete.

[KCSO]

Parts will cost more tha a whole pistol sells for on Gunbroker if you go to GPC and some are no longer available. Springs Magazine grips and who knows what else... I think you are flogging a dead horse here.

[Forgetful]

Why don't you try case-hardening all parts, replace the springs, and re-blue it?

[gnoahhh]

The only thing that would give me pause is if the slide/frame got annealed in the fire, the resulting wear from extended use may well cause the fit between the two to become sloppy thus reducing accuracy. I would examine the slide/slide stop interface too for peening after it's together and shooting again, especially if fed a diet of high velocity ammo. Another area to give a critical look at is the trigger assembly, especially the sear interface. In fact, I would replace those particular parts as a matter of course.

Would I try to resurrect it? Sure. Nothing beats a try but a failure. But I wouldn't expect it to give a service life as long as it would have if it hadn't gotten hot enough to burn the grips off.

[flounderman]

If he decides not to fix it, I would buy it if the price was right. I'm not worried about a .22 that has been toasted a little. Barrel might be rusted if it wasn't taken care of because the oil would have been removed by the heat.

[bear67]

I rebuilt a .22 single shot rolling block that had been in a house fire and then laid in the ashes for 9 months. No wood left but barrel was straight and hammer and block looked OK. The bore was toast as it had ashes and moisture in it for extended period of time. I cleaned it all up, drilled, relined the barrel and cut a new chamber. Made springs and it fired fine and worked great.

This was a really good friend and neighbor's grandfathers rifle and he had died in the fire. I polished and blued it and
hand shaped a walnut stock and fore end for it and he cried when I gave it back to him. If I had charged for my time it would not have been worth the cost, but I did it for my friend and would not let him pay for the materials.
Five years or so back, I had to make a firing pen for it as it was light striking and a spring did not fix it. He and his son still love to shoot Pa's 22.

Sometimes it is worth the learning curve to try--everything and every project in life is not as planned, but boy o boy when a plan comes to completion.

[justashooter]

22LR guns are usually made from 1020 or similar mild steel that has a brinnel hardness under 130. high velocity cartridge receivers, bolts, and barrels on 223 up to 375 mag are usually made from 4140/4340 or similar alloyed steel that contains chrome and/or nickel to allow heat treatment for hardness up to 350 BHN. military grade machine guns are often 8620 or similar with manganese addition and or carburising to reduce wear when the design life is in the million round range. an HD military is gonna be simple mild steel, produced in 1950 or thereabouts, and not subject to damage except for the heat treated parts like springs, and surface corrosion typical of unprotected steel subject to temps over 500* F. the bore may be somewhat damaged and should be scrubbed good with a bronze brush for evaluation.

[MtGun44]

.22s are not hardened steel. Most are made of steel with really
WON'T harden much even if you were to try. Just clean, refinish and replace springs.

Bill

[fatelk]

Justashooter and MtGun44, thanks for the metallurgy info; good to know!


Parts will cost more tha a whole pistol sells for on Gunbroker if you go to GPC and some are no longer available.
I wish I could find one that cheap.:)

It looks like all springs but one small one are available, for about $30 total. He says it's missing what sounds like the slide lock, another $23. A reproduction magazine and grips (both missing) will run $71 total from Triple K (anyone know if they're any good? I'm always leery of aftermarket stuff.) I imagine there might be more needed when I get to look at it, but from his description it doesn't sound bad.

He says he cleaned the barrel thoroughly and it looks nice and shiny. Not everyone knows how to look at a barrel to know if it's good or not, but I expect he could tell a really bad one if he saw it. He says the bluing is very splotchy but only some minor pitting that will be covered by the grips. I told him it looked like at least $130 or so for parts and it didn't bother him at all. Maybe more for bluing if he wants to have it done right, but at first well see how it turns out with some cold blue. It's just an old .22 pistol that has been in the family for 60+ years. He's pretty happy to be able to get it fixed up if we can; the cost of parts isn't that big of a deal at this point.

He offered to pay me for my time, but I said heck no. I don't charge my friends to help them with fun projects! Besides, I've known this guy for most of my life and he's helped me more than I could repay.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Most parts of most .22s don't need to be hardened, and often aren't. In a pistol of this quality the intersecting rails of the slide and receiver might be, but it would take a great deal of use to show the difference, and it wouldn't be a safety issue.

An exception, though, might be whatever stops the slide on its rearward travel. I haven't seen one of these pistols in several decades, and then never dismantled. I don't fully understand the details of the Numrich schematic, but it does show a stop lug which looks quite complex. The early Colt Woodsman gave trouble with high velocity ammunition until they produced a new backstrap which fulfilled this function, and could be fitted to earlier pistols.

It might be helpful if someone with a High Standard could do a little scratching with the point of a needle on this part and whatever it contacts, to see if it feels hard.

[Petrol & Powder]

I agree with the posts that recommend the attempt to salvage the pistol. I don't think there would be a safety issue. The worst case scenario would be accelerated wear and I doubt even that issue would surface.

[M-Tecs]

Some of the parts may be available from here http://www.highstandard.com/index.php/weapons-hs/hs-pistols/hs-22-s

[Balta]

I know for couple of Tokarevs that ar picked up from burned military truck , in realy bad conditions and after some work , ( all springs r replaced, grips ) there was back in working condition firing high presure cartidge like 7,62 x25! I even shot one magazine from one of this " burned' pistols!

[wv109323]

I am not familiar with the HD model but the model 101 and 102 High Standard pistols had plastic grips. The pistol would not have to get that hot to ruin a plastic grip.

[dubber123]

I am not familiar with the HD model but the model 101 and 102 High Standard pistols had plastic grips. The pistol would not have to get that hot to ruin a plastic grip.

I believe all the HD's had checkered walnut grips.