3030 deer setup, thoughts?

[Elbow]

Deer season here in Vermont starts in 2 weeks. I have never hunted with cast before but learned a lot this year. So my set up is a Model 94 Winchester 3030 with a Williams peep sight and a red fire sight bead. My boolit is a lee c309 170 f made from half wheel weights and half lead that I could easily scratch with my fingernail, it was scrap I scrounged from the junkyard so I think it was pure or close to it. My load is 22 grains of IMR 4198. Deer here. Can go over 200 but you don't see many so if you see one you want to make sure he goes down. Kinda long winded but I'm a little nervous about my setup, I have a Model 88 winchester 308 I've killed a pile of deer with, just looking for some reassurance I guess that I have an effective weapon and load in this setup. BTW accuracy with my 3030 and load is very good for me with the peep sight I can group well at 100 yards. Thoughts?

[Driver man]

Get close. Shoot straight. Lung shot would be my choice. Youve got enough gun to do the job and the boolit will exit.

[Bill*B]

My long gone Winchester 88 was a vicious kicker - if you're used to that, you should love the '94!

Your listed load will exceed 1600 fps and should be fine.

[MT Gianni]

I assume that you will not die if you don't harvest a deer or that you will only get one shot at one. At some point we have to leave the known if we want to answer the questions of the unknown. I think that load will get it done out to at least 150 yards. If you have to have the meat go with the known, if you have to know what this load can do go with the unknown.

[richhodg66]

You have a good set up. Go hunting and enjoy the venison.

[FergusonTO35]

What do you guys think of the Lee 150 and 170 grain flat nose boolits on deer? Do they really give up anything to other designs? My 336 Texan likes the 150 over 26 grains IMR 4895.

[seaboltm]

If I were hunting in an area where seeing a deer was fairly rare or uncertain, I would carry the 308 with J-words. I would hate to miss an opportunity at a deer under those circumstances. Now, if it were like Texas and you were virtually certain to see several deer, that's a different story.

[35 shooter]

If your luck is like mine and you take the .308 your shots will come 25 to 150 yds. and you'll wish you had the 30/30 lol. I'd base it on what distance you'll most likely have a shot at.

[newton]

I've shot a couple with my setup. I have a M94, same boolit. Mine are cruising at a tad over 1900fps.

Both deer did not run too far. I would not be afraid to use it at all. Only thing I wish is that I had the fire front sight. Mine is still a bead. Love the Williams rear though.

Im going with a heavier boolit soon though. I like the lee, but personally want a tad more umph. I'd take the 30-30 over the 308, but that's just because I have strong feelings for her. Lol.

Honestly though, when I hunt I like to take whatever it is I feel most confident with. If I'm just going out for fun, to walk or sit in the woods, I'll take whatever I want to play with the most.

[FergusonTO35]

That's me totally. If have confidence that you can place the boolit where it needs to go then you are already most of the way there. I gave my Marlin Glenfield 30 some exercise yesterday and was reminded of this fact.

[Dan Cash]

You have a good bullet but at 1600 fps you are on the edge of too little zip. It will work if everything is just right but there is no margin. Move that same bullet at 2000 fps and it will be a real killer.

[Elbow]

Anyone know how fast my bullet is going with 22 grains of IMR 4198?

[GoodOlBoy]

Yep it will be going.... fast enough to kill a deer. If you hit it. Which you should. 30-30 is nothing to be nervous about. That cartridge has taken hundred of thousands of deer, and will continue to do so. Stop worrying about it and go hunting.

GoodOlBoy

[Salmoneye]

Anyone know how fast my bullet is going with 22 grains of IMR 4198?

Per the Hodgdon online load data for j-word 170gr bullet:

Somewhere around 1,800fps...


IMR

IMR 4198
.308"

2.550"


21.0

1,800
27,400 CUP


22.3

1,896
32,100 CUP

[jlchucker]

Elbow, I'm from Vermont too--originally southern Vt but now Northern. I've driven through your part of the state many times but never hunted there. I think GoodolBoy says it best. Heck--one of my brothers once got 3 deer in 3 years in VT, with a 25-20 with old factory ammo--it's what we had, back in the day. Your 30-30 boolits will not bounce off. Like GoodolBoy says, stop worrying and go hunting. Start taking those velocity-bullet weight guys' writings with some skepticism. If you make a good hit you'll get your game.

[OverMax]

IMHO: Going after deer with a 94 & Williams. Remove the Williams aperture and learn how to shoot without it. Once you have that down pat. Learn how to lever quick while holding spot on to put a second Round into the same area as the first within a matter of a couple seconds. Once you have achieved both. Then your good to go with your 30-30. Otherwise use that Model 88 you have. Then there's no need to learn anything but aim well and pull that assume 88s trigger.

[Canuck Bob]

Elbow your recipe has been harvesting deer for over a century, good luck. The choice of sights is very good. I would start with a receiver sight and throw the barrel sight in the bush myself. The first time I used a peep sight I never used a barrel sight again except while waiting for my receiver sight to show up. The fact you have the cast bullet load dialed in means you are ready to hunt.

[newton]

Yep, 30-30 was made for a peep....or was a peep made for 30-30.... Either way, cant beat the combo.

Yes, you can have too little zip on a boolit. Take what the guys who don't care about that kind of stuff with a grain of salt.

Heck, I bet I could be better at bullet placement than anyone of them all with my boolit running right around 10 fps. That's with me walking up and setting the bullet exactly where I want it.....oh yea, wait, I highly doubt that's gonna kill a deer though. lol just a little playin around boys, don't get yer feelings hurt.

[truckjohn]

Take it out to the range and see how she does....

The bit about the aperture... This is important when you are talking dusky dark and dim forest light... The smaller the aperture - the more sunlight needs to be shining to see what's going on..... So.. Unscrew the itty bitty aperture and just look through the hole that's left... It's much easier for your eye to columnate in dim light.

Thanks

[Geezer in NH]

Take it out to the range and see how she does....

The bit about the aperture... This is important when you are talking dusky dark and dim forest light... The smaller the aperture - the more sunlight needs to be shining to see what's going on..... So.. Unscrew the itty bitty aperture and just look through the hole that's left... It's much easier for your eye to columnate in dim light.

ThanksAll my receiver sights are missing the insert. I can shoot better than 99% of buckhorn sights, it is fact the receiver shoots better

[Ramjet-SS]

Nice setup you just have to shoot the gun from field postions and become familure with it like any gun. The combination you posted simp,entry for deer provided you put the bullet in the vitals.

Good Luck and have fun.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Yup, 30/30 w@ 160-170 gr boolit @ 1700-1800 fps will anchor any deer you do your part on...put the boolit where it counts....good hunting:cbpour:[smilie=s:

[Enyaw]

I'd be wantin close to 1,000ft/lbs energy at the buck with a bullet that has a wide flat nose or the jacketed softnose that can mushroom at the right velosity. A wide flat nose(that can transfer energy) like 50cal. can move slow and give the very minimum energy of 500 ft/lbs.

I'd be wondering,since brute bucks are tough, ifin a 30-30 with the bullet it was intended fer at the velosity and range it was intended fer wouldn't be the best fer a quick clean kill. I wouldn't feel well armed with a rifle shootin slower than intended with the wrong type bullet.

A bullet half lead and half wheel weight wouldn't mushroom much(deer bein thin skinned so to speak) so 30cal. is kinda small diamerter if not using the bullet the 30-30 was designed around(jacketed soft point) at a good velosity the rifle was designed fer.

The 30-30 killed a lot of deer,they say, but that wasn't with slower lead alloy bullets was it? Maybe if an Hombre couldn't get jacketed bullets and had a small cashe ofpowder to work with.

Sure....people kill deer with the 22 long rifle bullet but....why,if you don't really have to, would a hunter take an inferior bullet to a buck fight? They are tough and can go long distances on half their normal blood pressure and blood quantity. Don't drop that blood pressure enough they don't go down quick at all.

Energy on paper is informative but....when the selected bullet hits the density of the selected target animal what happens there means an awful lot. Knock Out energy. Tissue damage.

[richhodg66]

I've cleanly killed three deer with similar .30 caliber loads to what the OP mentioned (.30-30, .308 and .300 Savage respectively) all were FP cast of similar alloys at similar speeds. None went any farther than they typically go with jacketed full power loads from some good deer cartridges in my experience.

All three were in pretty good conditions; from a tree stand at unsuspecting deer, farthest was about 60 yards, closest about 20 feet. Not much of a test perhaps, but all chest cavity hits and the bullets performed well. If he's a reasonably decent deer hunter, which it sounds like he is, he'll do fine with that set up.

[Elbow]

As far as being familiar with the gun that is not an issue I have shot lever actions all my life, mostly my 88, some savage 99s and I have killed deer with a model 94, so I am famiier with the gun, I also have shot close to 100 deer with rifles, recurve bows and a cap lock muzzleloader. My question is related to the performance of the cast bullet I'm using and the powder charge I listed. In a nutshell, I am not new to shooting deer just new to shooting them with a cast bullet, therefore my original question.

[Ramjet-SS]

so you will be fine go hunt enjoy the expereince and you will be casting for all you're rifles.

[Driver man]

As far as being familiar with the gun that is not an issue I have shot lever actions all my life, mostly my 88, some savage 99s and I have killed deer with a model 94, so I am famiier with the gun, I also have shot close to 100 deer with rifles, recurve bows and a cap lock muzzleloader. My question is related to the performance of the cast bullet I'm using and the powder charge I listed. In a nutshell, I am not new to shooting deer just new to shooting them with a cast bullet, therefore my original question.

The general opinion of all is that you will be successful with rifle and load. Go and do it and post your results. I dont think you will recover many boolits.

[Enyaw]

I guess I'd have to concede my opinions to the Hombre that have physically killed deer with the type gun and boolit and velosity mentioned. I can't back up my opinions with hands on evidense since I've not shot any deer with a 30-30 movin a lead alloy boolit at below listed velosities(loadin manual).

I've only killed deer with slow movin(1,200fps) pure lead from a 45/70 barreled Hawken I made and the lead ball from other muzzleloaders movin faster.

One example....large buck..32 paces front on neck shot 45/70 520gr. boolit pure lead movin with 75gr.FFg blackpowder. Dead buck but.....the neck stopped that boolit. Hit the bones and exploded into pieces against the sharp shards of bone. Never exited. That's a heavy bullet with lots ft/lbs and a large 45cal. flat on the nose of the boolit. The flat the same diameter as the base of the boolit like a long 45cal. wadcutter.

Other buck shot frontal with the same boolit same load with the pure lead expanded found in the hip joint.

That's the kinda stuff I know.

Shootin light weight lead alloy from smaller diameter calibers movin faster is not my field of expertise. All I know is to follow the book when it comes to smokeless powder.

I guess I'm simply sayin....take my opinion about the 30-30 with lead alloy movin slower than listed in the book(loadin manual) with....a grain of salt.

Never killed a brute buck with a lil boolit movin 1,600ft/sec.
I believe that could kill a big buck but I'd want to place the boolit somewhere to shut down the central nervous system or the vascular system rather fast. Just behind the ear or directly into the heart at rather close range.

Can't hunt deer in Ohio with the venerable 30-30. Wish I could.

All that said, ifin I did use the venerable Winchester Model 94 it would be with a jacketed bullet(170gr.) movin at least 2,000ft/sec. That's just me and me ain't no exxxxxpert. Just an old hunter that's still kickin.

I will be huntin fer the first time ever this year with a lever action rifle the Winchester 1886 45/70 with a 405gr. bullet an the startin loads usin Accurate 5744 and IMR 3031 powder. That will have my vertebre slightly out of place fer a week er two after 30-40 practise shots. I'll be hobblin all stiffed and stoved up out in the field deer season. Only thing good bout that is I won't have trouble still huntin SLOW.

[helice]

Post us the pictures of the hunt and I get dibbs of the liver. :bigsmyl2:

[TXGunNut]

In a nutshell, I am not new to shooting deer just new to shooting them with a cast bullet, therefore my original question.-Elbow

Only problem you'll have is what to do with your leftover j-words. Haven't had much use for j-words since the first one fell to a cast boolit.

[izzyjoe]

I wouldnt sweat that load, just worry about boolit placement. Pop them in the shoulders, and they don't go very far, hit the lungs and it may wind up a long tracking session. With a load that slow you need to hit bones, and take out there steering!

[Driver man]

How about an update on your results

[jonp]

I shot several in The NEK where I'm from with my trusty 30-30 and a 150gr and a Williams peep. 100yrds and in it will drop one easy. It will do it out to 150 if you can see it well enough. My buddy just got a nice 180lb 8pt near my camp in Island Pond. Good luck.

[Motor]

Sorry for the high jack but this thread seems to have drawn a lot of cast boolit deer hunters.

My question: What do you guys think about a Lee .313" 160gr 2R TL as a whitetail deer boolit. Actual weight is around 168gr with gas check. Lead / linotype alloy is 16bhn. Velocity is 1850f/s.

Thanks,

Motor

[randyrat]

I shoot a 175 grain lee lead bullet going a zipping 1800 ft/sec. Have killed many deer with one shot. Best kill zone is high in the neck or just below the ear from the side..If you don't have confidence in your shot, shoot just behind the front shoulder and a little lower than middle, no meat ruined with either shot and both are deadly.
You don't need a 300 Win mag to kill a deer, shot placement is where it is at... You load is hotter than mine, I'm jealous

300 win mags are good for trophy hunting on the edge of your property line, when you need the deer dead before it hits the ground.

[Blammer]

IF you don't kill a deer with that setup it's the nut behind the butt's fault, not the gun or set up. :)

[rhead]

I have killed several dozen with the Lee 150 grain boolit over 14.5 grains of 2400. That is around a hundred FPS slower than what yo listed. I doubt that an extra hundred FPS and 20 more grains of lead will hurt the results.
Boolit placement is not everything but if you miss power does not matter. I have never recovered a Boolit so i have no data on expansion. If you are confident in your accuracy go hunting.
I use a NEF so i can't advise on follow up shots.

[TXGunNut]

One of the hardest lesssons I've had to learn about cast boolits for hunting is that a properly alloyed and placed boolit of reasonable mass does not have to be going particularly fast to kill deer sized game. The fact that deer and hogs seem to fall faster and with less meat damage is a pleasant surprise as well. The only thing I can't figure out is why more than a few experienced casters still use j-words. I understand that a few hunt at distances that seem extreme to this TX brush hunter and I can accept that as I'm not a long-distance shooter.
I'd like to echo Driver man's request for a field report, I hope the OP's season is going well for him.

[FergusonTO35]

I've been thinking about giving a shallow hollow point to my Lee 150's. Make a center indentation with a prick punch, then drill a cavity of 1/8 or so, just enough to help it expand if only soft tissue is hit. Some j-word pistol and rifle bullets for hunting use this design.