Berdan Decapper for 7.62x54R

[jim4065]

Found this on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/7-62X54R-Decapper-Berdan-Reloading-Dies_W0QQitemZ350022499067QQihZ022QQcategoryZ31825 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Anyone know much about it? I'm not sure where to get primers - or for that matter whether all this "Brass" is worth re-loading - but I've sure got a lot of Berdan ammo for the Moisins, and so far I haven't been picking up cases..

[garandsrus]

Jim,

I have never made one, but you can find instructions on the web for making your own berdan deprimers.

John

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

When it comes to Berdan primed cases, it is not just the proble of decapping the cases that is so bad. If I am not mistaken, once the Berdan primer is removed, you cannot just replace it with a regular Boxer primer. I think the Berdan and Boxer primers are different sizes and are not interchageable. Also, the Berdan case has an anvil built into the primer cavity that is not present on Boxer primed cases. I checked on buying Berdan primers a few years ago, and the price was way higher than our regular primers.

With this in mind, I gave up on the idea of reloading Berdan primed cases. I found Boxer primed ammunition for those calibers like the 7.62X54, 8MM, and other foreign ones. I may have paid a bit more for the Boxer primed ammunition, but it seemed a much better way to reload than buying Berdan primed stuff.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[trooperdan]

Jim, you can do the same thing with a 59 cent carraige bolt from Lowe's. I don't bother to reload much Berdan except for that lovely GP11 Swiss brass. But the way the price of ammo has gone, that might change soon! Glad I picked up a couple of cases of the nickle a round Turk 8 mm!

[oneokie]

IIRC, RWS is the only source for Berdan primers.

[Pavogrande]

No mess huh - where does all the water go ? been there done that, many moons ago when a lot of bp miltary weapons were sold and fired berdan primed stuff we tried all sorts of alternatives for reloading when the ammo dried up. Berdan primers come in several sizes none of which are the same as boxer. lachmiller/rcbs makes the best - relatively speaking- tool for removing berdan primers. I believe primers were available from magtech, a friend got a pot load about this time last year. The 7.35 Carcano and related, used a smaller berdan primer about .190 in diameter and we sucessfully? converted some to boxer. Removed old primer, mounted case on rod through mouth, bashed the berdan tit down closing two primer holes, drilled new flash hole and bored case out to fit boxer primer. Lots of work but no other cases were available -- Even at the hi cost of 7.62x54 brass it is not worth the effort -- my two cents - Oh yea, some of the bp cases, like 11mm mauser, we fitted with shotgun primers, but that is real work -

[dmftoy1]

RCBS makes a berdan primer depriming tool too. I haven't bought one but in playing around with some berdan brass I can see how it would work. (pries them out after piercing the primer )

https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/,DanaInfo=shop.rcbs.com+MainServlet?storeId=webcon nect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=3162

I could've sworn this was only a $9.95 tool last time I looked ..wow.


Does anyone know if brass fired with a corrosive primer (first time) is still good to go after tumbling etc?

[jack19512]

I don't bother to reload much Berdan except for that lovely GP11 Swiss brass.




+1
I also reload the GP11 brass. I simply refuse to just throw that brass away. It still amazes me how often the "reloading Berdan primed brass" threads pop up. I always get tickled the most from those that have never reloaded Berdan primed brass. They always seem to be able to tell you the in's and out's of it all from what they have either read or been told.

Reloading the Berdan primed brass is neither hard or messy if done right. If it has been hard or messy you are just not doing it right. It does not require a fancy or expensive decapping tool either.

Now, having said that I am not going to be stupid enough to tell you that it is as easy as reloading for Boxer primed brass. I think it is just a matter of how resourceful and dedicated you want to be. I will generally deprime about 100 cases while watching TV. Here is my zero cost to me tool that I use and it works very well.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/Berdandecappingtool.jpg

[David Wile]

Hey Jack19512,

I was not saying I would not reload Berdan primed brass because it was too much trouble to remove the primers; I don't mind the primer removal process. It's the paying for new Berdan primers that is the deciding factor for me. Access to a supply of Berdan primers is very limited at best, and that makes them extremely expensive compared to regular Boxer primers. For me, it is the cost of reloading brass with new Berdan primers that makes it a no go decision.

There are a half dozen calibers I use that are usually thought of as Berdan primed ammo. In each of these calibers, I have been able to buy good, non-corrosive ammunition in Boxer primed cases. Such Boxer primed ammo, while more expensive to purchase initially, is much less expensive when you reload it with Boxer primers. Also, a lot of the foreign surplus Berdan primed ammo still uses corrosive primers, and I don't want to bother with cleaning that mess.

Now when it comes to converting Berdan primed cases to Boxer, just read the very detailed process Pavo described to accomplish that task:


"The 7.35 Carcano and related, used a smaller berdan primer about .190 in diameter and we sucessfully? converted some to boxer. Removed old primer, mounted case on rod through mouth, bashed the berdan tit down closing two primer holes, drilled new flash hole and bored case out to fit boxer primer. Lots of work but no other cases were available -- "

I think his key statement was that no other cases were available. No, I have never converted Berdan cases to use Boxer primers. I like reloading; in fact, I would go so far as to say that I probably enjoy loading more than I enjoy shooting. However, converting Berdan cases to Boxer goes beyond my reloading threshold for interest vs. labor. If I absolutely could not buy a half dozen boxes of Boxer primed brass for a particular caliber, my next step would be to see if I could reform Boxer primed cases from another caliber to fit the Berdan case caliber. I would much rather reform existing Boxer cases than convert a case from Berdan to Boxer. If there was no way to reform a case to what I needed, at that point, I think I would be inclined to say goodbye to the gun or just keep it as a wall hanger.

It is not the work of removing Berdan primers that stops me from reloading Berdan cases; it is mainly the cost of replacing Berdan primers with new Berdan primers that makes it a stopper for me. And yes, I actually did reload Berdan primed cases back in the 1960s with a friend who was loading 7.62X54 back then when no Boxer primed cases were available. He used a tool which pierced the primer and pried it out of the pocket. It really wasn't difficult at all, but even back then the Berdan primers were very expensive.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[trooperdan]

Does anyone besides me remember a tool to remove berdan primers that did it by firing a primer inside the berdan case? I swear I saw an ad for such an item a few decades ago. I think it was British. Doubled your primer cost too and I bet it wouldn't go over well She Who Must Be Obayed! I'll bet it worked though!

[David Wile]

Hey TrooperDan,

That method is a new one for me. The only way I ever removed Berdan primers was with a pierce and pry tool of one kind or another. Back in the 1960s, a friend had such a tool, and it was pretty easy to remove the primers from a few boxes of ammo in just a little while. He would size the cases (without the primer pin), and I would remove the lube and the spent primer after he sized each case. I cannot remember who made the decapper back then. I don't think it was RCBS or I would probably remember that. It seems like it might have been Forster or some other lesser known to me name.

I cannot imagine using a live primer to remove a spent primer. Sounds bad cost wise as well as potential safety issues.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[nicholst55]

Unless things have changed dramatically in the last year, there is ONLY one source for Berdan primers in the US - Brassman Brass. He bought up the remaining stock of PMC Berdan primers, and was charging $50 per thousand at that time. IIRC, he only had one size (.217") of primers.

I contacted PMC and asked them if they had plans to import any more Berdan primers, and they said probably not. There were a couple of people selling PMC primers on GunBroker.com, but they have since sold out.

I weighed the alternatives, and decided that I could buy Boxer-primed brass for less money, and that I could save time and hassle when reloading them. My Berdan-primed brass now goes into the recycle bucket. Unless I buy a rifle that Boxer-primed brass is simply not available for, things will stay that way.

[floodgate]

The RCBS "pierce and pry" tool for decapping Berdan cases was - I think - a design they inherited from Lachmiller. You have to watch that you don't gouge the anvil or the side of the primer pocket with the sharp point; it has to be set "just right". I have heard that after two or three reloadings the anvil will be hammered down until it doesn't reliably fire the primers. I once made a little depriming punch with two tiny pins of music wire that could be used through the two flash holes to deprime some old Berdan primed Fiocchi .22 Velo-Dog (aka .22 Maynard CF) cases; fiddly, but it worked! The current Fiocchi .22 V-D brass takes small pistol primers; but the brass is of poor quality and tends to crack or split a lot, even in a "correct" chamber.

floodgate

[utk]

I used to reload military berdan-primed 9mm cases. I clamped a metal spud in a vice to hold the cases. As a tool I used a (very) small screwdriver and sharpened/rounded the tip on a diamond lap. Then I rested the tip of the tool in the firing-pin depression at an angle, such that the tip would go through the primer but slip over the dimple when whacking the other end of the screwdriver. Then I just pryed the primer out.

[Ken O]

I reload the GP11 also, not a big problem. I use the hydraulic method and yes, you do get a few drops of water when the primer releases, then dump the rest of the water out of the case. I bought a sleeve (5000) of Berdans from the Brassman a couple years ago for $22 a thousand, apparently they have gone up quite a bit(supply and demand), can't blame him for getting what he can out of them. I hate to see good brass go to waste.

[jack19512]

Hey Jack19512,

I was not saying I would not reload Berdan primed brass because it was too much trouble to remove the primers; I don't mind the primer removal process. It's the paying for new Berdan primers that is the deciding factor for me. Access to a supply of Berdan primers is very limited at best, and that makes them extremely expensive compared to regular Boxer primers. For me, it is the cost of reloading brass with new Berdan primers that makes it a no go decision.

There are a half dozen calibers I use that are usually thought of as Berdan primed ammo. In each of these calibers, I have been able to buy good, non-corrosive ammunition in Boxer primed cases. Such Boxer primed ammo, while more expensive to purchase initially, is much less expensive when you reload it with Boxer primers. Also, a lot of the foreign surplus Berdan primed ammo still uses corrosive primers, and I don't want to bother with cleaning that mess.

Now when it comes to converting Berdan primed cases to Boxer, just read the very detailed process Pavo described to accomplish that task:


"The 7.35 Carcano and related, used a smaller berdan primer about .190 in diameter and we sucessfully? converted some to boxer. Removed old primer, mounted case on rod through mouth, bashed the berdan tit down closing two primer holes, drilled new flash hole and bored case out to fit boxer primer. Lots of work but no other cases were available -- "

I think his key statement was that no other cases were available. No, I have never converted Berdan cases to use Boxer primers. I like reloading; in fact, I would go so far as to say that I probably enjoy loading more than I enjoy shooting. However, converting Berdan cases to Boxer goes beyond my reloading threshold for interest vs. labor. If I absolutely could not buy a half dozen boxes of Boxer primed brass for a particular caliber, my next step would be to see if I could reform Boxer primed cases from another caliber to fit the Berdan case caliber. I would much rather reform existing Boxer cases than convert a case from Berdan to Boxer. If there was no way to reform a case to what I needed, at that point, I think I would be inclined to say goodbye to the gun or just keep it as a wall hanger.

It is not the work of removing Berdan primers that stops me from reloading Berdan cases; it is mainly the cost of replacing Berdan primers with new Berdan primers that makes it a stopper for me. And yes, I actually did reload Berdan primed cases back in the 1960s with a friend who was loading 7.62X54 back then when no Boxer primed cases were available. He used a tool which pierced the primer and pried it out of the pocket. It really wasn't difficult at all, but even back then the Berdan primers were very expensive.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile








Nothing I posted was directed at you. Just my observations from reading so many posts about reloading Berdan primed brass. The only Berdan primed brass I reload for is the Swiss 7.5X55 and only because I have so much of it.

I had recently switched to the .284 brass for now because I only have 5,000 of the Berdan primers left and because they are hard to come by these days want to save them for a time when I might absolutely need them.

When I purchased my supply of Berdan primers they were actually slightly cheaper than boxer primers.

[gandog56]

Not now, Tula makes them Graf And Sons sells them For both 7.62X54R and 7.62X39.