Humble reminder

[hendere]

I've been casting for years. I know better. It's a nice fall day, and I decided to smelt some wheel weights and try out a new mold. It's what I do most weekends. A tiny amount of water got into my lead. I'm too embarrassed to say how, but it really was just a drop. I've heard of the tinsel fairy many times, but I never dreamed she would work this way. Lead went friggin everywhere. It is a miracle that I'm not burned. I'm not saying this lightly, the stuff flew 8' feet every direction. A lot of it. I would like to humbly remind everyone to never let your guard down.

I just revised this because I exaggerated on how far it went. I just measured. 8' and way faster than I could ever move...

[koehlerrk]

I'm a believer in the tinsel fairy... and I think she works with Mr. Murphy....

[bedbugbilly]

Glad you weren't hurt nor burned. Hey . . . I've cast for 50 years and it doesn't make any difference how long you've been at it . . . we all need safety reminders!

I don't know how many would do this but another safety reminder is to never set a hot casting pot on to concrete . . . the moisture in the concrete can expand, turn in to steam and blow as well. I taught industrial education and part of that was foundry - our crucibles were hotter than the cast lead pots but trust me, it can happen. In college I saw it happen to a guy who thought he "knew everything" - didn't have his leggings on over his pants and shoes and he ended up with molten aluminum in his shoes.

A reminder to be careful is always in order . . . thanks for "rattling the cage" again and again - glad you didn't get hurt.

[country gent]

I seen the ultimate tinsel fairy one night at work. Some joker threw a half a water bottle of water in with some aluminum scrap to be recast. This was a 50,000 lb furnace. when that load of scrap was dumped in ( even after the light preheat on the stand.) the furnace, the whole building shook and rumbled. Molten Aluminum flew everywhere several people had small burns, 3 had serious burns requiring reconstructive surgeries. There was aluminum hanging from pipes and beams on machines floor and fork lifts. Wasnt a joke then and if they had found out who did it they would have been fired on the spot ( possibly for thier saftey as those guys in die cast didnt have alot of a sense of humor about this). It was a real eye opener. Molten metals and moisture dont mix please be safe start from scratch cool pot and material heat up together from ambient or do a very good preheat on materials to be added to a pot. Make completely sure there is no water or moisture in the alloies or scrap.

[sghart3578]

To hendere,

I'm glad you weren't injured. I was thinking of starting a new thread but if you don't mind I will add to yours.

A few days ago I polished one of my aluminum molds. I then washed it in the sink with hot, soapy water. I dried it and went to the garage.

I had my lead pot at 725 degrees, ready to go. I put the corner of the mold into the lead and when I did something like 2 tablespoons of water came out of the handles! Luckily they dropped to the table, just missing the lead.

It was a wake up for me to be sure. Never be too safe.



Steve in N CA

[shooter93]

Often times it's the "old hands" at doing something that have one moment of forgetfulness. I've been doing this so long and never had a problems syndrome. There is a large dent in my shop wall where a piece of plywood came BACK out of the 5 horsepower table saw because the "little guy in my head" warned me and I didn't listen to him.....know full well I should be. Doing things by rote can get to be a problem. No such thing as too many safety reminders for anyone and thankfully you weren't hurt.

[RED333]

So glad you were not hurt, she has paid me a visit, glasses and a full beard saved me, just a few blisters.

[CastingFool]

Glad you weren't hurt. Could have been nasty, but you already knew that. I worked at an aluminum foundry for a while. They were extremely careful about preventing water from getting into their melter. It had a capacity of 146,000 lbs. of aluminum. Aluminum soda cans were not allowed into the building. All aluminum scrap that came in, was treated as "wet" aluminum. It had to sit a number of days before it could be loaded into the melter. Fortunately, for me, I didn't work in the foundry side, I worked in the die shop, on the extrusion side. Wasn't quite as hot in the summertime.

[hendere]

Thanks everyone. I finished the day with a bunch of ingots and a bunch of bullets. And no injuries. I was holding a pot of molten lead when I did this, I'm amazed that I didn't drop it and make things worse. Good reminders all the way around.

[Nueces]

A tiny amount of water got into my lead. I'm too embarrassed to say how, but it really was just a drop..... Lead went friggin everywhere.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Without your going into more detail than you want, would you please characterize more specifically just how the moisture got under the surface of your melt? I'm curious because some insist that a falling drop of water will not penetrate a molten lead surface, but will dance and sputter on top. So your case could be a good data point for the rest of us to consider.

Would you be able to talk about the last inch of this drop's life as liquid?

[williamwaco]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Without your going into more detail than you want, would you please characterize more specifically just how the moisture got under the surface of your melt? I'm curious because some insist that a falling drop of water will not penetrate a molten lead surface, but will dance and sputter on top. So your case could be a good data point for the rest of us to consider.

Would you be able to talk about the last inch of this drop's life as liquid?

This is true most of the time.

I have seen it done accidentally but would not recommend trying it on purpose.

There are many ways to conjure up the tinsle fairy.
All of them involve getting a tiny bit of water below the surface where it vaporizes and explodes.


Recycling a culled bullet that got wet.
Recycling a sprue cut that got wet.
Pouring lead into a recently de-greased mold that has not completely dried.
Dipping the corner of a wet mold into the melt to heat it up.
Dropping a moist ingot into the melt.
Pouring lead into a moist ingot mold.
Dipping a moist ladle or stirring spoon into the pot.
( The use of the smokeless fluxing chemicals is frequently the cause of this problem.
Stirring in a dose of these chemicals that has been exposed to a moist atmosphere and absorbed moisture.)
Dipping a wooden stirring stick into the mold. They occasionally contain resin or actual water.

How can these items become wet?

Body fluids: sneeze, cough, tearing.
Bringing cold metals, tools, ingots, etc. from an outside ( winter) storage area into a warm casting area.
Water dropping bullets.
Condensation on a cold drink glass or can.

And as they say. . ." And many more...."

Anything liquid is VERY BAD NEWS. KEEP IT FAR AWAY FROM THE CASTING AREA.

[hendere]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Without your going into more detail than you want, would you please characterize more specifically just how the moisture got under the surface of your melt? I'm curious because some insist that a falling drop of water will not penetrate a molten lead surface, but will dance and sputter on top. So your case could be a good data point for the rest of us to consider.

Would you be able to talk about the last inch of this drop's life as liquid?

Mr. Williamwaco nailed it on his list. Like I said, I'm plenty embarrassed, so go easy on me. "moist ingot mold". My ingot mold was too hot, and the ingots weren't cooling fast enough to suit me. I took it far away from my casting area, and set the base on a wet surface to cool it a bit. A small bit of water ended up in one of the cavities. I poured into the surrounding cavities for several rounds thinking that it would heat up and evaporate the water in the empty slot. I was wrong. When I poured into the wet one, it exploded.

[MaryB]

Idiot at a McDonalds I worked at tossed ice into a hot deep fryer, bad news when it flashed to steam and sprayed hot oil all over him. Lucky that he was the only one who got it, we were just opening for the morning and the rest of us were finishing up stocking stuff over on the grill side. He got fired on the spot and I landed the maintenance job after they found out I could do minor electrical repairs.

[RED333]

No need to be embarrassed, that is the very way I did mine, I now use a torch to get rid of the cooling water.
Stuff happens, we learn from the things we do right and wrong.
It is the wrong things that hurt us and we remember the best.

[triggerhappy243]

I have to say I personally saw a drop or 2 of water land on my melt. And yes the tinsel fairy jumped all over me. I have the scars to prove it. So, yes I heat up from a cold pot and slow and easy.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I was smelting down some lead pipe pieces that were about 2` in length. It is pipe I was given about a year before and has sat in a corner of my barn waiting to be smelted. I put 2 of these pieces in my cast iron large smelt pot at a time to melt them. On about the 4 time I placed some pieces in the pot it started acting and sounding strange. I back stepped rapidly from the pot, I was about 10` away when the fairy struck. I caught several hits on my welding jacket but not anywhere on skin of my face. I was clothed on all other parts of my body except my face and that was because my face shield fell off as I back peddaled. There was still some water trapped in those pieces of pipe after at least 1 - 2 years of sitting in a dry barn. I could only guess when the pipe was cut up it trapped some of the water in a few pieces. Now if I get lead pipe, I cut it into even smaller pieces to make sure there is zero moisture in any of it.Robert

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I brought this up last year. I was immediately informed that such a thing was not possible by, iirc Chargar, and another self-important poster here and chastised for spreading such nonsense.

[Harter66]

Here's 1 that never gets old
120806
120806

[rintinglen]

For additional fun, let a live primer join the party--not only does the tinsel fairy make an appearance, but the loud bang is sure to get your complete attention. Why yes, My casting and reloading areas are separated--now.

[Nueces]

Thanks, Hendere. I agree that your willingness to share your experience should cure any embarrassment. Years ago, in the professional pilot business, policy was changed to allow a preemptive "I screwed up" that would disallow an FAA dust-up. You do something dumb, 'fess up and the slate is clean. But the rest of the profession can learn something, which is correctly deemed of higher value.

WilliamWaco's post seemed to allow for the possibility of a drop getting below the lead surface and now triggerhappy243 has contributed his experience of just that having occurred. No matter how unlikely it may be, I will continue to be spooked by the possibility and avoid it.

[Harles Dawson]

Experience is a non fatal mistake. I read that on this board somewhere. Sure glad you weren't
hurt. Harles

[bbqncigars]

I have not had any problems in my casting sessions due to pre-heating moulds and ingots over a hot plate. Tinsel got generated once when smelting, but I had protective gear on. Face shields are nice to have when you need one.

[Mk42gunner]

I haven't had any visits from the tinsel fairy, yet.

I get real nervous when I hear her knocking. (That little burbling sound when you put a not warm enough spoon or dipper into the pot). That was one of the reasons I quit using Marvelux from Brownell's; my fluxing spoon would burble like crazy, and I was in Fallon, Nevada -- the land of no humidity.

Robert

[tomme boy]

Had small one this summer. I welded some angle together to make some ingot molds. I used a older flux core mig welder. They don't weld very well and thats all I had available then. Well somehow some moisture had gotten into or under one of the bird poop welds. When I poured some lead in it popped and lead sprayed all over. Never got burned. But it really caught me off guard. Them olds are long gone now and I preheat everything now to make sure it will not happen again. They all get set on the side of the burner and pot right before I am ready to start pouring.

[TheDoctor]

Spoon got me once. Riveted handle, spoon was not hot enough. About a pound flew out of the pot. Only caught a few splatters, but ouch. When I took my glasses off, there was a little spot that had melted right in front of my pupil. ALWAYS wear eye pro.

[zuke]

I like to use my 10lb LEE pot to premelt for my 20lb'er to keep it all moving quick. I unplug the 10lb'er after pouring it all into the 20 so when I put a couple fresh ingot's for the premelt it all start's from a cold pot.
Cooked a lotta bug's that way!