Savage 99 and RCBS sizing die delimma

[Maineboy]

I had planned on using my stepfather's Savage 99 in 308 to hunt with this year. Several years ago I acquired a box of reloading equipment that included 200 rounds of fired .308 brass and some RCBS FL 308 dies. After running the brass through the sizing die, trimming to length, and loading a few jacketed bullets, I found they would not chamber. It appears the shoulder is not coming into specs and is too big for the rifles chamber. I guess I'll buy a new set of dies or entertain any suggestions. Factory ammo chambers without any problem.

[dilly]

Would this be an appropriate situation for small base dies?

[Olut]

I bought one in 1966 as my hunting rifle & have reloaded it ever since with military .308 brass. Small base dies are essential on mine

[Vopie]

Make sure the dies are properly adjusted to Fl. size. (as in read the instructions). Failing that you can get a "thin" shell holder from I believe lyman or you can surface grid your own. That should solve the shoulder location issue if by that you mean its to long. If to big in dia. at the shoulder you will need the s.b. die.

[starmac]

I have heard some say the small base dies are essential even for the 300 savage. I started with a 300 and a lee whackem stackem loader that neck sized only. I didn't know it wouldn't work, so it worked fine. I couldn't use my buddys brass, in my gun however.

[Maineboy]

I have a 99 in 300 Savage and use Lee dies with no problems. The base of the brass doesn't seem to be the problem; it's where the brass starts the shoulder that seems to be too big. I don't want to push the shoulder back any further like might happen with a "thin" shell holder. I sighted the rifle in with factory ammo today and want to compare the fired cases with my resized ones, then resize those new factory cases to see if the will chamber in the 99. 308. By the way, it's more accurate than my 300 Savage 99. Can't wait to try cast boolits in it.

[dilly]

How do fired cases fit in a case gage?

[atr]

I have a savage 99 in .308
I would recommend small base dies although I have not had problems with plain FL sizing. IF (big "IF") the FL die is seated correctly in the press. If the FL die is not set correctly you run the risk of pushing the shoulder of the case back and the cartridge won't head-space properly. The model 99 seems to be real fussy when it comes to sizing.
atr

[beroen]

I have a savage 99 in .308
I would recommend small base dies although I have not had problems with plain FL sizing. IF (big "IF") the FL die is seated correctly in the press. If the FL die is not set correctly you run the risk of pushing the shoulder of the case back and the cartridge won't head-space properly. The model 99 seems to be real fussy when it comes to sizing.
atr

Do you just back the die off the shell holder a half a turn or something?

New Neck size dies seem hard to find for 300sav

sorry OP to thread Jack, I am Going to be realoding 300sav soon.

[richhodg66]

I have a 99E in .308 and an EG in .300. My .308 dies are standard RCBS and my .300s are C&H I think. Never had a problem when I sized with the shell holder touching the bottom of the die, they both feed slick as can be.

[atr]

Just lightly "kiss" the bottom of the die to the top of the shell holder....don't crank it down !

Also: backing off the die 1/8 of a turn will size the neck but leave the shoulder fire formed to your chamber.

Finally: Always check to make sure the action closes on the cartridge and make sure the primer ignites.
(note: If you push the shoulder back too far (by improper sizing) the head-space will be off and even if the cartridge feeds and the action closes the firing pin may not strike hard enough to ignite the primer.
atr

[fatnhappy]

Interesting thread. FWIW, my .308 savage is a 99F. I absolutely love this rifle. I have 3 different sets of .308 dies, RCBS, Hornady and Lyman. (don't ask, I used to have 5 sets). I went downstairs and FL resized 3 fired winchester cases with each of the three sets and seated a 165 grain Nosler ballistic tip in each case with the respective seater.
All 3 chambered flawlessly.
I also have 1500 brand new remington nickle cases (a gift). I resized 3 of these and seated bullets. all 3 chambered. I seated bullets in 3 unsized cases and they too chambered.
All my military cases have been formed to 7-08 or .300 savage so I didn't have any to try.

What does this prove? Not much. Perhaps you have a tighter chamber than mine. About all I can glean from this is that my rifle chamber and dies line up properly with industry standards, and the supposed "case stretch" with rear lug actions it's as big a deal as it's made out to be.

My advice fwiw: send me a PM if you'd like and I'll send you a different sizing die to try. It's just as likely the die is oversized as it is the chamber is undersized. The next step is probably a SB die but as mentioned adjusting a shellholder will work. If you don't want to take a couple thou off the top of your shellholder you might want to look at the redding competition shellholders. They offer shellholders that are stepped down from industry standards so you can precisiely control headspace. They're likely cheaper than a SB die. You can occasionally find SB dies for sale here.


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[TXGunNut]

I learned when I bought my first Savage earlier this year that headspace was indeed critical for the 99. I followed advice given in a thread back then and bought a headspace comparator tool to measure the shoulder and ensure proper headspace for a given rifle.
If your FL die is properly adjusted it may very well be that you need a different die and the rifle that fired this brass has headspace or other chamber issues. (maybe a machine gun?) Not a big fan of SB dies but your situation may call for it...or a different lot of brass. I had a rifle with headspace issues once and case failure started as early as the first firing, generally by the second or third. I'd use the bent paperclip method to check the balance of your cases before loading any more of them.

[Maineboy]

Well my fired cases chamber okay after resizing, but they don't slide in quite as easily as a factory round does. I think the resizing die is not bring the cases down to factory dimensions. I don't know the history of that fired brass I acquired those years go but FL resizing it with that RCBS die does not allow me to chamber most of them in the 99. Maybe 1 out of 25 will chamber with no problems. I didn't pay anything for the brass or dies so I'm not out anything.

[Maineboy]

The cases all appear to be in very good shape, primer pockets are tight, and I did the paper clip test on quite a few but found nothing wrong.

[NVcurmudgeon]

I have owned only three 99's in the last 54 years, which certainly does not make me an expert. I had a 1960 99R .250/3000, a later 99-.358 that had the cool wide forearm, and a 1949 EG in .300 Savage. I used two sets of normal RCBS in the past and a standard set of Lymans now, and never had any trouble. I always size all lever action cartridges full length and have never had any trouble. I always adjust the sizing die to meet the shell holder WITHOUT ANY SPRINGBACK when sizing. I bought this .300 since the panic in brass started, so had to buy used Remington and Winchester brass which has worked perfectly so far. (I check every case with a bent wire every time I load it.) Often I have adjusted sizing dies until the die touches the shellholder, but that doesn't always get it until the die is turned in a little deeper. I'm not sure if that's the "official" method, but it works for me.

[Maineboy]

I just ordered dies and was looking for American made 308 brass...there just ain't any reasonably priced 308 brass for sale! I haven't bought any reloading brass for 4-5 years and hadn't paid attention to it's availability. I want to use the stuff I have as so I hope this set of Lee dies does the trick; if not, I'll order a small base sizer.

[OverMax]

Old brass probably fire formed to another rifles chamber. (maybe?) My suggestion. Try annealing your brass first (before) their resizing.

[Maven]

"I don't know the history of that fired brass I acquired those years go but FL resizing it with that RCBS die does not allow me to chamber most of them in the 99. Maybe 1 out of 25 will chamber with no problems. I didn't pay anything for the brass or dies so I'm not out anything." ...MEboy

It seems to me your brass is a good candidate for annealing, then FL resizing, MEboy.

[Maineboy]

OverMax and Maven, I hadn't considered that option. If the new dies don't do the trick, I'll try annealing.

[Maineboy]

I was digging through my odds and ends brass a while ago and found 12 rounds of Remington brass in a factory box that someone gave me but wasn't part of the lot I resized a few days ago. It appears to be once fired and all 12 rounds chambered easily after resizing.

[Maineboy]

The new sizing die did the trick. I ran 16 cases that wouldn't chamber in the 99 through the Lee sizing die and now all of them chamber in the rifle like they should. The only part of the RCBS sized case that was effected by the new sizing operation was the very top of the case body where it starts to form the shoulder.

[Wayne Smith]

Send the die, both cases, and a rite up to RCBS. They will fix your die.