Redding Competition 9MM Seating Die

[robertbank]

Ok I have been having siugnificant problems with my Dillon seating die in 9MM when loading Lyman's 356402 bullet which as you know is a truncated cone style bullet. The problem was the small seating brass piece is made with a hole in the base and when the bullet is pushed against the hole as the die seats the bullet the force on the nose cause lead to flow into the hole a bit deforming the nose ans resulting in a bullet with a variable OAL and in excess of what I set the die at.

So to make a long story short I ordered a Redding Competition Die with the micrometer adjusting apparatus. Well I read the instructions, limited as they are , and installed the die. I set it to load my cartridges to an OAL of 1.10" using a dummy cartridge assembles to a OAL of 1.10" using the 356402 lead bullet.

Well the first test run cartridges came out of the Dillon 550B bang on 1.10" After about 25 loaded rounds I checked them and they varies in length from 1.10" to 1.20" and this variance was duplicated after checking the die and resetting it again.

It occurs to me the bullets in question all don't have exactly the same olgive. Close and not discernible by just looking at them but I would expect some variance due to variations in the alloy and casting temperature. Am I grabbing at straws here and there is another explanation.

Any suggestions based upon your experiences would be appreciated. I intend to call Redding in the morning.

Take Care

Bob

[Petrol & Powder]

You're grasping at straws.
0.10" variance in OAL is likely a result of numerous factors; casing length, small changes in olgive, even a little bit of slop in the shell plate and tool head of the 550. The seating die is probably not the culprit. That amount of OAL variance would be a little disturbing in a rifle cartridge but I doubt it's a big deal in a 9mm Lugar round.

[Petrol & Powder]

By the way - Bob & Doug McKenzie avatar = Super Cool !

[robertbank]

You're grasping at straws.
0.10" variance in OAL is likely a result of numerous factors; casing length, small changes in olgive, even a little bit of slop in the shell plate and tool head of the 550. The seating die is probably not the culprit. That amount of OAL variance would be a little disturbing in a rifle cartridge but I doubt it's a big deal in a 9mm Lugar round.

+.10" in a 9MM round is enough not to allow the round to seat in the chamber. That unfortunately is my concern. The issue with the 356402 is the truncated cone is relatively narrow. The dies sleeve that normally rests on the olgive as the bullet raises within the die is almost on the edge of the bullet where the olgive starts. You are right though the variance likely is caused by the various sizes of the olgive due to alloys etc. I may have to reduce the initial setting to say 1.05 in length thus a .+ 05 variance would leave me with a 1.1" cartridge which would be perfect. I will test the cycling of cartridges ot to 1.2" as you suggest and if they cycle in the CZ's they will cycle in anything.

Incidentally the die is made like a Swiss watch in the Rolex variety. Very impressed.

Take Care Eh!

Bob

[robertbank]

OK I spoke to Redding Support this morning. This die is not designed to be used with cast bullets. I suggested to the gentleman I was speaking to that Redding might want to say that in their information on the die. Most of us on this site shoot cast bullets. The problem is the die has a stem designed to align the bullet straight into the case. The stems diameter is designed for .355 jacketed bullets not lead bullets sized.356/.357.

If you are thinking about buying a Redding die for lead bullets this die is not for you. The make a standard die which does work with cast bullets. that is the die you want.

Take care

Bob

[mozeppa]

got rid of the spring in mine and turned a solid plug to put in its place ...it allows me to make minor adjustments on the fly.

and better yet when i switch to a different bullet, i can dial it out (or in) to a known setting and continue.

[MtGun44]

In many cases, a simple flat tip is best for seating cast with any sort of a flat
front. I have turned several different lubrisizer flat top punches for the same
reason. In some dies, the top of the seater is reversible, or the die comes with
an alternate seater tip to suit semiwadcutter boolits or HP bullets.

I agree that you should be able to get much better than .10 LOA variation.

As a general rule, "competiton" dies are oriented towards seating the bullet
straight in the case, but they do have a precision seater for length, too.

A tip - ALL Hornady dies have this "competition" seater with the sleeve to
seat the projectile straight in the case and IME Hornady dies make the
consistently straightest ammo of any dies. Of course, this can be an issue
with oversized cast because the necessarily tight sleeve for jbullets can be
too tight for our normally oversized cast. BUT I use a lot of Hornady dies
for cast and do not normally have issues, but remember we are the odd
guys, the overwhelming majority of reloading gear is oriented towards
jbullets. Cowboy dies are a conspicuous exception - intended for cast or
swaged.

Bill

[jmorris]

How about just plugging the hole in the Dillon?

[robertbank]

How about just plugging the hole in the Dillon?

Tried that with JB Weld. The 356402 bullet has a relatively small flat point. The pressure on the tip simply forces the hardened JB Weld into the hole. I tried using a copper disk to spread the pressure over a wider area and it didn't work at all.

I am going to load some round nose 9MM rounds using the competition die to see if I can get the die to work. The dies design relies on the bullet olgive to be a constant. The 356402 has a very narrow shape leading from the driving band to the tip of the bullet. What happens is the internal sleeve does not contact the bullet until it reaches the driving band area. or the brass case. RN bullets be they plated, jacketed or cast contacts the sleeve on the olgive then rises to contact the stem that determines the OAL of the bullet. The die is really a poor design for pistol bullets and while the workmanship certainly calls for the price Redding wants for it. The design doesn't. I get better results out of a cheap Lee seating die and intend to purchase same if I can't get better results using RN bullets.

As an aside some have suggested I sell the die and move on. Well I can't do that. If it doesn't work for me it won't work for the next guy either.

Take care

Bob
ps Anyone know if a small spot weld would work to close the hole on the dillon part?