357 Handi Range report

[gpidaho]

What was originally disappointment when I first took the measurements of my 357 Handi have turned to optimism. After some thought, here is what I decided to do with the long chamber. I did a pound test with a soft slug to get some chamber measurements. I found that it would accept brass up to 1.403 in length, well over standard 1.280 so I bought some 357 max brass and cut it back to 1.394. Then choosing two heavy for caliber bullets. A Saeco #352 240gr fp and a 200gr LBT fn seated to engage the rifling. The 200gr LBT was over 4.5gr of Unique and the 240 gr Saeco over 4gr of the same. Shooting over my CED chronograph the 240gr had an average of 886fps and an SD of 8, the 200LBT had an average of 1041fps and an sd of 11. I have never sent 240grs down range with the felt recoil of a pellet gun before. Look out 300 Blackout guys, I think I've found a sub-sonic GP

[Ben]

I still wonder why H & R cut those chambers like that ?

[jmort]

It is supposed to be SAAMI spec

[wlc]

Maybe comparing apples and oranges, or at least two different kinds of apples but I have an Encore that I had MGM make me a barrel in 357Max with a 12 twist. I sent in a dummy for them to chamber to. I load and shoot 250 and 300 grainers out of it and through a suppressor. LOTS of fun. Just had Tom at Accurate cut me a mold for the two weights and have them cast and have been loading dummies to see where my OAL length need to be with these particular boolits. I think the mag and especially the Max are two very overlooked rounds for quiet thumpers. It definitely is better in lots of ways than the 300BLK, which I also have and enjoy.

[gpidaho]

I have six Handi rifles and an Encore with three barrels. One thing I like in these single shots is that it is so easy to find max COL. Simply seat a boolit inverted in a test case with the base flush with the mouth, then seat the boolit into the rifling with an easy push with a wooden dowel and just measure back from the case head with the depth feature of your caliper. That's your seating depth for max COL GP

[Bigslug]

I still wonder why H & R cut those chambers like that ?

I wonder if it has something to do with the revolver origins of the .357. By the time you add up the cylinder throat, gap, and forcing cone, a revolver has more freebore than Roy Weatherby ever dreamed of.

I am intrigued by this gun. I've had the opportunity to play with a cast iron frame Ballard that was sleeved to shoot .38 Long Colt (essentially a wimpy .38 Special), and it may well be the most fun you can have while still dressed. A .357 Handi Rifle provides this on the cheap. I just wish they did it with iron sights. . .

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

I will be figuring out iron sights when my 357 barrel comes back for the factory. The throat/leade on the 357 barrels is quite goofy from the factory.
Reaming the chamber to MAX with the proper reamer seems to fix any accuracy issues with 38sp/357mag. 360 DW and 357Max rounds, from what Ive been able to determine.
I am on a waiting list for the reamer. There is a LOT of info on Mike Bellums website about the max, but if you read the info on chambers it will become evident what is wrong.
It even made sense to my hillbilly brain
http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=121

[Four-Sixty]

I have to get back on mine and do some load development. At 25-30 yards I can fire .38 Special, the lee 158 TL RN boolit over 3.5 grains of Bullseye and it shoots like a laser.

I need to try it out to 50 and 100 yards for comparison. I can just never seem to pry the thing away from the kids when we're at the range...

[Groo]

Groo here
On your head be it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some have loaded 357 brass to 357max length and loads in the H&R chamber.

[gpidaho]

Jim F: Yes, reading Mike Bellm's information is what got me to cutting back the Max brass to fit the long chamber in my mag Handi. As stated in OP I'm seating heavy for cal. boolits tight into the rifling. There wasn't enough length to the mag brass @ 1.280 to get the seating depth I wanted, so I cut back max brass to 1.400- as that is what fits in the long chamber. Four-Sixty: I have shot a lot of 158s with 3 to 4gr. of Bullseye. As it has been unavailable here lately I've gone to Tight Group with very good results. Groo: I'm not going for HV. I'm working with a Saeco #352 240gr. FP and shooting for 1100fps. , just sub-sonic. I'm getting good results in the 4 to 5gr. range using Unique, good SDs What my final goal is, I want to find a slower powder that will load at 100% cap. and not be over the pressure limit for Sammi 357mag using the 240gr. boolit. Thoughts? GP

[wlc]

Just got out this afternoon with my Encore in 357Max. I recently got a mold from Tom at accurate and wanted to try out those boolits. I got a 4 cav with 2@250gr and 2@300gr. I loaded the 300grainers over some Lil gun and the 250's with Am. Select. Both were really quiet through the Mystic suppressor with the 300 grainers the most quiet. That's a lot of thump. Next loading session I'm gonna load up several and see where I get the best accuracy and remain subsonic. I also got "rid" of a few 38specials that were laying around. If you really want giggle quiet try 38's through a suppressor.

I also shot my AR in 300blk with the boolits from 338ultramags BLK mold. I like shooting the MAX out of the Encore better even though the AR is a bit more accurate. An AR is just a loud system and loading for an AR almost dictates 1680 for subs and it is a loud powder. I'm thinking one of those new Ruger American ranch rifles in 300blk will allow use of more powders for quiet loads.

[wlc]

You can probably use American Select. It is a bulky powder. You will be in uncharted waters though. I use about 6 grains of it in a 357 MAX case under a 250gr boolit. I'll hunt around and see if I can find something in mag loads for you. IIRC someone has loaded AM select in a mag under a big boolit for subsonic use.

[wlc]

Can't find what I was looking for as far as AM Select and mag brass. I load a 250 grainer in the MAX brass with about 6 IIRC (not near my notes right now) for a fairly quiet load. Another powder you might try is W231 in your magnum with the 250 grainers. Don't know about case fill, but around 4 or 4.5 grains should give you a fairly quiet load.

[gpidaho]

Thanks wic for your interest in this. I have used AM Select in the past for both handguns and shotguns as powder goes my memory of it is that it burned very clean. I think I can get what I'm looking for as to fps and noise level with most of the faster powders. This 100% or compressed load is just something I'm playing around with and isn't all that important to me. This site adds to the fun when you find others working on similar projects. Thanks GP

[wlc]

I'm thinking that you will only be able to use trail boss and get anywhere near 100% case fill without getting too much pressure unless you go with slower burning powders and then you are wasting powder because of the percentage that doesn't get burned. With most of my subsonic loadings in the MAX I'm usually only at 50-65% case fill (according to quickload). I know you were talking about just below 1100fps. Just my thoughts here: Shoot for between 1000 and 1050fps. That way they should stay subsonic down to close to 0*F. I don't know about you, but I hit my comfort limit of outdoor plinking before it gets that cold. Another thing is that the closer you get to the speed of sound, even though subsonic, the rounds will get significantly louder. I don't know if you are using a suppressor or not, but with one I can definitely tell a difference.

As far as the Am Select, yes, I have found it to be pretty clean burning. Loading some more tomorrow.

While the lower 48 is getting the "polar vortex" again, we are having mild temps here. It was in the mid 40's today, which is ODD for us for this time of year. I've been trying to get out and shoot as much as I can lately cause it won't last much longer.

[gpidaho]

wic: I believe your right about the 100% thing, not that big a deal. The 240gr fp seems to work real well with 4-4.5gr Unique. I've been powder coating just the driving bands by setting the boolit in 380acp cases and capping the bore riding noses with the same. Something to think about in cold climates and makes long term storage (all winter or more) a better option. Thanks again for your comments GP