Puma .44-40

[mannyCA]

Regardless of my feelings on this Italian import, my buddy just got one and it has the prettiest CCH I've ever seen. The metal to wood fit is very good and with 5 grains of TB and a 240 gr RNFP alox as cast at around .430 it shoots POA at 75 yards. Very smooth cycling and beautiful wood. Barrel slugged in at .4275.

And did i mention how fun it is to shoot?

To say I was shocked would be an understatement, I guess sometimes you can get lucky.
Photos to come

[runfiverun]

rossi is owned by Taurus, they are in south America somewhere near brazil.

[pietro]

.

"Puma" is a copyrighted logo, owned by Legacy Sports International (LSI) - who once assigned the name to Rossi S.A. for Model 92's branded for, and imported by, LSI - but re-assigned the name to the Italian company (Chiappa, IIRC) for use on Model 92's & Model 1886's, once the LSI contract with Taurus/Rossi S.A. expired.

The Italian Model 92's cost about 2x what a Taurus/BrazTech/Rossi does, but in exchange a buyer gets 2x the bling, in the form of better metal & stock finishes (and nice case colors, too).


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[runfiverun]

hmm I remember the brass sided puma's with the picture stamped in them. [shot one a few times]
one of my latter 92's is from rossi, and was imported by LSI but it bears no such name as "the puma"
it is a much later one [year or so before Taurus took over] and I know chiappa was making and selling 92's by then.
one of my earlier ones is imported by navy arms which would have been after LSI and the puma logo.

I can't speak of any guns made by Taurus [I can but only badly]

[pietro]

.

IIRC, Taurus bought Rossi about 8 years ago, and made/imported Model 92's under the "Braztech" moniker during the transition period (maybe 2-3 years).

I disremember, at this point, who actually made the Model 92's that Navy Arms imported years ago.


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[runfiverun]

I think they [navy arms] may have bought the parts and assembled them stateside.
I know somewhere out there someone has wrote the whole rossi 92 story down, but they flip flopped importers and such so many times I can't even come close to remembering it.

[Doc.Holliday]

"I can't speak of any guns made by Taurus [I can but only badly]"

Sounds just like my gunsmith a retired army armourer . He calls them "disposable"

Doc.

[salvadore]

Sounds like a Chiappa, I bought a carbine this spring in 45 Colt. It has a smooth as glass action which actually looks like the original and was much more accurate than an Uberti '73 I use to own. The carbines have the cheesiest sights I have ever seen, however it is already drilled and tapped for a tang sight and my Marble fit just dandy. That's the good news, I just got thru sending it back to their warranty station for the second time issues with the magazine. The rifles are much prettier and have nicer sights, but I'm set up for 45Colt and none of the rifles were chambered for it. Mine was $649 plus tax @ my local emporium. They were all priced at $649, rifles carbines short rifles blued CC. I believe Cimarron.. Cimmaron..Cimmarron? whatever sells them for almost twice as much.

[mannyCA]

Funny, the box says puma but the rifle says chiappa made in Italy. Still working on getting some pics up. Still can't get over how sweet it shoots. I think he just lucked out.

[salvadore]

Samo samo, puma on the box, chiappa on the shooter.

[mannyCA]

some photos of the beauty, a little porn for you guys.

These do not do it justice, the stock radiates.
Stamped "Chiappa made in Italy" on the gun

120586120587120588120589

The wood to metal finish is amazing good. Scratches the hell out of brass through the gate though...

[Any Cal.]

I saw one in 38-40 that was pretty like that. Nice wood and fit/finish. Also had a convertible buckhorn/long range ladder sight that was kind of interesting.

[texaswoodworker]

I can't speak of any guns made by Taurus [I can but only badly]

I own a new Rossi 92, and an old (like 80s) Taurus model 66. The Rossi has a very nice case hardened finish on it. The fit and finish are good, though there are a couple areas that could have been done better in terms of fit. It had an extractor issue that I was able to fix relatively easily. It shoot quite well and is pretty accurate. Overall, I'm happy with it.

The Taurus is probably the most accurate handgun I have ever owned. I have almost managed to put 6 rounds of 38 special +p into a single hole at 10 yards. With a little more practice, I could probably do it, the gun is definitely capable of it. The finish is pretty good. It's a satin nickle finish. The trigger could make a S&W jealous. VERY nice, and VERY smooth. The double action trigger is pretty light, and the single action trigger is light and crisp.

They have sent out some lemons, but in my experience most of their guns are good.

[mannyCA]

Well after a few weeks of playing with this I'm sorry to announce its problems decided to turn up.
The bright side is that it shoots better than I can at 100 yards with open sights, the bad side is the darn loading gate seems to have tweaked and now jams the works up when loading multiple rounds. Effectively turning it into a single shot rifle. Not acceptable.
Did a quick shoot and discussion if anyone's interested here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6ErIlGbdS8

hopefully this will lay out some pros and cons of this manuf. I tend to want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
Looks like some work is going to have to be done. Going to see if I can get a winchester loading gate and fit it if possible.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
thanks.
Manny

[sparky45]

Go to WWW.stevesgunz.com. Check out his services and look into his DVD. I have it and was able to rework my new 44-40 into a real gem.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Is it the loading gate or the lifter that jams?
Sounds silly but make sure all the screw are tight.
Do a search for "Marlin lever gun jam" there are some good sites that explain how and why it happens along with fixes. Ok sure similar things happen with other lever guns too.
I had mine lock up with multiple rounds. All I needed to do was tighten up all of the receiver screws and it was fixed.
I did do a little light stoning per some serious instructions found online to help prevent any future issues.

Good luck!

[salvadore]

I watched the youtube vid and sometimes the magazine looks like it extends beyond the barrel and sometimes it looks like it doesn't. You might want to check how well your mgazine tube fits.

[Ford SD]

Well after a few weeks of playing with this I'm sorry to announce its problems decided to turn up.
The bright side is that it shoots better than I can at 100 yards with open sights, the bad side is the darn loading gate seems to have tweaked and now jams the works up when loading multiple rounds. Effectively turning it into a single shot rifle. Not acceptable.
Did a quick shoot and discussion if anyone's interested here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6ErIlGbdS8

hopefully this will lay out some pros and cons of this manuf. I tend to want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
Looks like some work is going to have to be done. Going to see if I can get a winchester loading gate and fit it if possible.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
thanks.
Manny
the Wife has a Blaze tech 357/38 (made before the most recent guns)

it jams up on 38 special that have a short bullet
it jams when 2 rounds feed from the mag(too short oal) a different bullet fixed it with specials 357 will feed with a SWC
needle files fixed the sharp edges in the loading gate

[mannyCA]

Thanks for the suggestions, this is a new gun and the screws are tight, the mag tube is also lined up with the barrel so no issues there. Going to take a look at that dvd mentioned above, could always use the help of a master when it comes to slicking up a rifle.

[mannyCA]

Well couldn't leave well enough alone, took her apart and found the loading gate spring had bent a bit. Gently coaxed it back into shape and works good as new, for now. Also fixed the light primer strikes by adding 2 thicknesses of aluminum can shims under the hammer leaf spring, seems to have done the trick.

Did a video demonstrating it if anyone is interested, under my name on you tube.

[BCRider]

The fact that it bent doesn't bode well for the future. Sadly your buddy's story isn't the first I've seen with Chiappa guns. If they spent half as much time on the insides as they do making the outside all bling'y they'd have a winner hands down. But they seem to cut corners on the inside all too often. I hope you and your buddy make this one work and that you don't have any future troubles. But I'll just keep looking at them and moving on.

It's a shame too since they make some very interesting stuff. But I simply won't put my money into such a gamble. I did once with a flintlock Armi Sport (Chiappa's other name for older style reproductions) and the lock work is pure junk on the inside. There's also lots of other stories out there too.

[mannyCA]

Yeah, he knew the gamble he was taking when he got into this. He's talked me into getting a winchester gate and see if we can fit it. Damn, its a nice looking/shooting piece though..,

[TXGunNut]

Pretty rifle, indeed. Hope you can make it work.

[cajun shooter]

The Rossi guns have been made in South America and still are today, only under the Taurus banner that is called Braztech. During these years they have had many Distributors that have contracted the company to make the guns with their name on it. I saw a few mistakes made in the postings and I felt compelled to post this information. First Navy Arms did not come after the other companies but was actually one of the early importers that had guns which were outstanding and among the 92's to own. They had the guns made with American Walnut and very nice bluing and fit. The 92's that came later were the Puma's (Old Model) no safety, Interarms, EMF, and the last one being the Chiappa guns which were not made by Rossi but made in Italy. They made the guns look good on the exterior but the parts fitting sucks. The bbls are .430 and above as they decided to just use the 44mag bbl and not have to make the .427 size. The worst gun making company in Italy is Armi Sports and I think I read where they were involved.
The guns by Navy, Early Puma, EMF and Interarms are all worth having but the later guns should be avoided at all cost. They are like the Fram filter commercial that stated "YOU CAN PAY ME NOW OR PAY ME LATER" . I'm speaking about repairs because of misfitting of parts.
What happened to Rossi is that they continued to build guns on the same equipment that they started out with in the 1960's when they made the first 92's in 38-357. These early guns are as good as any Winchester made, not in finish and wood but in function.
If you want to improve a 92 that you have, then I suggest that you purchase the very fine DVD that is put out by Steve Young AKA Nate Kiowa Jones. He has been known as the 92 guru for many years. If you are not up to doing some work on your own then Steve does work on the guns also. He runs on the slow side so don't expect overnight delivery but he will give you a date to send your gun. This keeps you from having a gun sit on his shelf for 10 months before it is worked on. Look at Steve's Guns on the web. He moved from Port Arthur, to Lampsas, Texas so his old numbers have changed. Later David

[cajun shooter]

The Rossi guns have been made in South America and still are today, only under the Taurus banner that is called Braztech. During these years they have had many Distributors that have contracted the company to make the guns with their name on it. I saw a few mistakes made in the postings and I felt compelled to post this information. First Navy Arms did not come after the other companies but was actually one of the early importers that had guns which were outstanding and among the 92's to own. They had the guns made with American Walnut and very nice bluing and fit. The 92's that came later were the Puma's (Old Model) no safety, Interarms, EMF, and the last one being the Chiappa guns which were not made by Rossi but made in Italy. They made the guns look good on the exterior but the parts fitting sucks. The bbls are .430 and above as they decided to just use the 44mag bbl and not have to make the .427 size. The worst gun making company in Italy is Armi Sports and I think I read where they were involved.
The guns by Navy, Early Puma, EMF and Interarms are all worth having but the later guns should be avoided at all cost. They are like the Fram filter commercial that stated "YOU CAN PAY ME NOW OR PAY ME LATER" . I'm speaking about repairs because of misfitting of parts.
What happened to Rossi is that they continued to build guns on the same equipment that they started out with in the 1960's when they made the first 92's in 38-357. These early guns are as good as any Winchester made, not in finish and wood but in function. They are making guns on new equipment now. Stay away from the guns made with the Chiappia name.
If you want to improve a 92 that you have, then I suggest that you purchase the very fine DVD that is put out by Steve Young AKA Nate Kiowa Jones. He has been known as the 92 guru for many years. If you are not up to doing some work on your own then Steve does work on the guns also. He runs on the slow side so don't expect overnight delivery but he will give you a date to send your gun. This keeps you from having a gun sit on his shelf for 10 months before it is worked on. Look at Steve's Guns on the web. He moved from Port Arthur, to Lampsas, Texas so his old numbers have changed. Later David

[salvadore]

I believe C S is right on, I've had mine back to the warranty facility twice for magazine issues. They still have it and I don't expect it back for 3 or 4 more months. I don,t know for a fact, but I believe Tayler and cimarron sell the Chiappa as there 92, they have the same cheesy sights.

[salvadore]

A guy should always read his older posts prior to reposting...ooops

[cajun shooter]

Taylor and Cimarron sell guns that are made by Uberti which is the Premium Gun maker in Italy for Western type firearms. It has been said that the Uberti model 73 rifles are better than the original Winchesters made in 1873. Chiappa which sells some guns under the old Puma brand name are made by Armi Sports which is known as the worst gun makers in Italy. They have several reviews on the web that will tell you about Armi Sports guns. I've heard that some of the Sharps 1874 guns have broken before 10 rounds have been fired. They make the exterior of the gun look real sharp but the interiors are full of trashy built parts that will not hold up.
It was said that the other Italian gun makers approached them and requested that they take more care with quality control as all the bad reviews would make others feel that all Italian made guns were the same bad quality. From all that still takes place, I think that the requests fell upon deaf ears. I had a friend buy his son for Christmas one of the 73 rifles made by them. It broke in the first firing session. Buyer beware.

[mannyCA]

Well, just wanted to report in. My buddy has put about 400 rounds through it to data flawlessly after the repairs. For some reason his starline .44-40 brass has the primer pockets a bit on the max size, which I think is what was causing the FTF. after speaking to a tech at starline they said they cut their pockets on the max size but had to get back to me for the reason. This was last week and I am still waiting.
they also strongly recommended I use federal primers due to their "softness".

thanks to all who responded.