Smelting

[DrJay1st]

I'm unclear on the smelting and later fluxing thing. I bought 4 5 gallon buckets of wheel weights today...I won't tell you how much I paid because it is embarassing...but it's become a matter of finding them at all and not so much the price...but I did make another contact there that is bringing me several 65 lb ingots from wheel weights at 20 bucks each...not especially cheap but better than what I paid for the raw wheel weights and I don't have to smelt them. Oh BTW, how much does a 5 gallon pail of them weigh and what is the yield...seem heavy as can be to me.
Anyway, when smelting, one needs to flux to integrate the good stuff like tin, but one needs to skim off the bad stuff. I'm concerned that I will integrate some of the bad stuff or allow some of the good to be skimmed off. I have read that sawdust is good because it reduces (reduction) some of the oxidized (oxidation) good stuff and reintegrates it into the mixture but how would you skim off the sawdust...I'm so confused! Jump in and explain this to me please.
Oh, how do I judge the quality of the already smelted ingots? They may have the bad stuff integrated or they may have the good stuff skimmed off. It can be fixed but how will I know that I need to do something. Remind me that if I learn how to do this well and correctly that I need to put it on you-tube.
I'm going out into the game room now, turn on the gas logs, light up a cigar, get out some of my new casting books and try to find out how to do this but I haven't run across this subject in them yet...maybe even pour a finger or two of an adult beverage into a tumbler.
I will check back here later to see if any of you guys have chimed in,
Jerry

[MT Gianni]

When your alloys are just melted, assuming no zinc, there may be some mushy looking stuff on top. At this point flux and stir deeply. You may get some self-igniting flames you may not. You may choose to light the gasses if not don't worry about it. After fluxing skim the black crud that looks like carbon. You should have a bright shiny mirror like alloy looking back at you. Gianni

[Cloudpeak]

maybe even pour a finger or two of an adult beverage into a tumbler.
I will check back here later to see if any of you guys have chimed in,
Jerry

No, no, no, do not put adult beverage in your case tumbler. A complete waste:-D

I just finished up lubing a bunch of 200 gr. SWC 45s out of my new Lyman mold while smoking a Maria Mancinin Magic Mountains maduro cigar that I found in the bottom of my cooler-dor. (not as good as I remembered).

You can always melt a few of your purchased ingots in your "rendering" pot to determine how well the metal was fluxed.

Cloudpeak

[DrJay1st]

Ok, not to be outdone, I'm gonna smoke a Camacho triple maduro...that ought to lay me out!

[mroliver77]

Ok, you need a large spoon or shallow ladle. A big long handled strainer really helps. Any WW with a riveted on clip get out of the batch. I try to get any zinc out before melting but it is hard to spot them all. Fill pot and fire up. It takes a while to get a melt going and this can be very smokey stinky. When it starts melting I have to mess with it and push unmelted into the melt. I try to get it all melted without a hot spot. When it is melted just skim off any solids. Then drop a 1-2" square of candle wax into melt and stir with long wooden stick of some sort. I like to light smoke as when it lights on its own I usually jump and splash lead about. Stir well and then skim all crud off the top. Put all clips and skimmings in a can with a lid that can be disposed of. Pour alloy into mold and as soon as they are solid dump them and repeat. You want to be all setup before starting this as it is a drag to go looking for a stick or large skimmer when you have 100 lbs of meeted lead.

[DrJay1st]

That sir was very helpful. How do I recognize zinc? Do the riveted ones have zinc in them?
Thanks,
Jerry

[DrJay1st]

Guys, I apologize!
I used the search function an hour or two ago and finally realized that in all likelyhood all the information that I would ever need was contained therein...I finally was just tired...I will resume again later with the study.
Except that I still don't know what 5 gallon of wheel weights generally weigh. I do know that I will suffer about 16% loss...see, I can learn...I can read...I can study...and thanks guys for your forebearance,
Jerry

[Cloudpeak]

You know, Jerry, this is one of the most friendly, helpful forums on the net with, I believe, a complete absence of "search jerks". Do a search, you'll see[smilie=1:

I just weighed a 5 gallon bucket of weights for you. You owe me a new truss. It was about 2 1/2 to 3 inches shy of being full and weighed 140 lbs.

Cloudpeak

[randyrat]

A full bucket of WWs weigh between a slipped disk, hernia,and bulging hemoroids.The doctor ask the Trucker when does his "roids bother hin the worst, The trucker answered; When i step on them. Sorry i had to slip that one in there. Just be carefull, lift the correct way and not too much at once. BTW there is soooo much junk in WWs when you get them, there is really not much need to flux. I do, because it makes me feel good. I've done it with or without fluxing and noticed no difference in my alloys (when using greese ladden dirty WWs)

[DrJay1st]

Thanks, they sure did feel heavy...all the way to the top...140lb feels about right...at least I don't feel like such a woozie...and it makes the price a little easier to take!
You wouldn't believe what the tire shops believe their wheelweights are worth! Everyone that doesn't buy them or need them are telling them that they are worth some huge amount (of course these know it alls don't have enough money to get out of the parking lot but the damage has been done) Rant off!
I need some way to weigh them so that I'll know.
Thanks guys,
Jerry

[DrJay1st]

Thanks Cloudpeak, they topped these off for me and they should for the price they charged but if I got 140 lb plus then I may have come out afterall...especially considering that you just can't find them! We may all have to starting shooting hollow point hornets to make the lead stretch out...tell me again what the chinese are doing with the lead? Sending it back over in the form of toys for my grandchildren to slobber on? Rant off...again!
You fly by any chance?
Jerry

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

One thing you'll want to remember is that while smelting, keep the temperature of your melt between 625F (melting point of lead) and 675F if you can. This will keep you from melting the Zinc wheelweights. They'll float to the top with the steel clips and you can skim them off with your stainless steel strainer you bought from the dollar store. You know, the one that's out of cheap stamped metal and came in a set with a spoon and a ladle.

Regards,

Dave

[DLCTEX]

Garage sales and thrift stores are good places to find slotted spoons, soup ladles, etc. at bargain prices. I've also found ingot molds in the shape of corn, fish, etc. DALE

[Goatlips]

Hiya DrJay, all good advice above, especially DaveIFBVA to watch the temp so as not to incorporate zinc weights. And to wear a truss when lifting a bucket. :shock: Anyhow it's again time for me to post my smelting site, which has PICTURES.

http://goatlipstips.cas-town.com/smelting.html

Maybe you'll find it useful.

Goatlips

[jleneave]

Thanks, they sure did feel heavy...all the way to the top...140lb feels about right...at least I don't feel like such a woozie...and it makes the price a little easier to take!
You wouldn't believe what the tire shops believe their wheelweights are worth! Everyone that doesn't buy them or need them are telling them that they are worth some huge amount (of course these know it alls don't have enough money to get out of the parking lot but the damage has been done) Rant off!
I need some way to weigh them so that I'll know.
Thanks guys,
Jerry

I don't know if this is what you may be looking for or not but here goes anyway. I bought a hand held set of scales from walmart. They are in the sporting goods dept around the fishing tackle. They have a hook that is perfect for weighing 5 gallon buckets but they only go up to fifty pounds but I can't lift near that much anyway(very bad back). I usually carry several buckets with me and a big heavy plastic tub. I put a manageable amount of WW in a bucket and weigh them that way. If I luck up on a large amount of WW then I dump them into the tub and keep up with the weight as I fill the tub. When I get home with them I either have a couple of my friends unload the tub for me or I take them out a few at a time. This way if I am buying by the lbs I don't get screwed and I don't end up screwing my sources.

As for the amount of waste, I have been averaging 15 to 20% trash. Keep in mind that count the flat stick on weights as trash because I totally seperate them out and will use them for making jigs for bass fishing or the black powder cap and ball revolver I am trying to talk my wife into for my birthday. I don't usually get all that many stick on weights anyway and trying to keep up with them would complicate the paper work that I do.

Hope some of this info helps you out.

[imashooter2]

To weigh the buckets use an old bathroom scale.

[DrJay1st]

Goatlips, your site is very informative.
Thanks guys,
Jerry

[clintsfolly]

save your clips and sell them. just sold 220lb and got $16.00 for them helps pay for propane clint

[mroliver77]

Thanks Cloudpeak, they topped these off for me and they should for the price they charged but if I got 140 lb plus then I may have come out afterall...especially considering that you just can't find them! We may all have to starting shooting hollow point hornets to make the lead stretch out...tell me again what the chinese are doing with the lead? Sending it back over in the form of toys for my grandchildren to slobber on? Rant off...again!
You fly by any chance?
Jerry


That may account for a small percentage. War materials take steel, lead, copper and aluminum.
J

[Down South]

Goatlips, your site is very informative.
Thanks guys,
Jerry
+1 :drinks:

[4thebrdz]

Full 5gal buckets that I have done weigh out at about 150#. After removing junk, zinc, steel, and tape weights, and after the melt/flux i average 110# WW lead. Tape weights come at about 10 or so #. So the crap average to me is 30#, give or take.

[RustyFN]

Nothing to add because I don't know what I'm doing, I'm just marking this so I can find it easy later.:mrgreen:
Rusty