Hollywood gun shop senior turret

[Tracvision]

I listed an original "NEW" ( new old stock) Hollywood Senior Turret on Ebay. The winner on Ebay will be the very first owner. This Senior Turret was produced by Lyle Corcoran while he still operated his shop in Hollywood, California. Lyle was born in 1902 and left us 86 years later, in 1988. However, his creations still live on. Lyle cut no corners when it came to quality. The Senior Turret is one of the most sought after presses that Lyle made.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291274516090?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

[Pressman]

Do you have any of the original packaging material or paper work to support the new and unused claim? I am interested.

Thanks,
Ken

[Tracvision]

Do you have any of the original packaging material or paper work to support the new and unused claim? I am interested.

Thanks,
Ken

Pressman,

Thanks for the question. When I obtained Mr. Corcoran's remaining inventory, I also obtained some Patents (originals), personal notes and much correspondence ( some handwritten ). I also obtained original photographs, advertising and the full sized negatives to boot. I have some of his original prototype machines including the Super Turret. As for packaging material, that was not anywhere to be found. However, the Turrets were still wrapped in the original waxed paper. If there are any additional pictures you would like to see, feel free to ask. Harold

[Tracvision]

Here are a few pix from my shop. Ever seen a tall boy? I dont think this press ever went into production, but I would welcome being proven wrong. This was made for the 20mm but I dont think there was enough demand for Mr. Corcoran to make any.
120047120048120049120051

[Tracvision]

Mr. Corcoran, the real owner of Hollywood Gun Shop. Photo taken in 1958
120056

[Tracvision]

shop pictures
120054120055

[MDphotographer]

Amazing stuff Traci what is in the plastic tubs in the background of pic #4?

[Tracvision]

Amazing stuff Traci what is in the plastic tubs in the background of pic #4?
Hey MD, The tubs in the background are most parts for the Senior Turrets. Some powder measure parts also. I have 5 of these storage bins for the smaller parts. This one shows "mostly" powder measure parts. Did you notice the wrapped turrets in PIC one of the first set of pix ?

120064

[Bent Ramrod]

Wow, that is great stuff! There was a pic or two in Sharpe's book that showed the milling of the castings for the Universal press, but that was the only look inside the manufacturing process I'd ever seen before.

[Tracvision]

Wow, that is great stuff! There was a pic or two in Sharpe's book that showed the milling of the castings for the Universal press, but that was the only look inside the manufacturing process I'd ever seen before.

There will be more to come Bent. I first have to get my invitation or be inducted into "Team Hollywood". :bigsmyl2:

[starmac]

Sweet, hope you get the big bucks for it.

I am not a member of team hollwood, as I only have one HW press and use it instead of collect, but for what it is worth, I will extend an invite. lol

There is not a chance in your parts that you have the original dies that hold the primer tubes is there.

[Tracvision]

Sweet, hope you get the big bucks for it.

I am not a member of team hollwood, as I only have one HW press and use it instead of collect, but for what it is worth, I will extend an invite. lol

There is not a chance in your parts that you have the original dies that hold the primer tubes is there.

Starmac, I don't think they are here but I keep some items in Colorado where I spend the summer. In a rush? I just got back to Florida. BTW Thanks for the Team Hollywood invite. If you use your Hollywood, I am sure you are a certified member. :lol:

[LUBEDUDE]

Tracvision, there is no doubt that you are Team Hollywood!

[starmac]

Tracvision, there is no doubt that you are Team Hollywood!

Kinda of what I was thinking. lol

[MDphotographer]

I wanna be Team Hollywood too dammit lol

[starmac]

I wanna be Team Hollywood too dammit lol

Well, that senior he has on ebay, and that universal Kevin has up for sale would be a good start. So there you go. lol

[MDphotographer]

I already have a SR Turret and have been making extra turrets for the SR doesn't that count? lol

[starmac]

I already have a SR Turret and have been making extra turrets for the SR doesn't that count? lol

Ok Yea that should count. lol I saw pictures of the turret you made Sweet, I just want to know when you are going to start makeing the 12 station turrets. lol It would be sweet to have a couple to swap out and never touch the dies. lol

[MDphotographer]

Well I hope to be doing turrets for the Universal Presses very soon how many do you want?

[starmac]

Well I hope to be doing turrets for the Universal Presses very soon how many do you want?

Ha Ha, I don't know, but I sure might be interested. I need to get a couple of the universal shell holders ordered. I have several hollywood shell holders, but not for all calibers.

[Kevin Rohrer]

If you have an extra Super Turret setting around, I would be interested in buying it.:bigsmyl2:

[winelover]

Have had it in my watch list, since it was listed. Curious, as to what it sells for. I already have one in almost new condition. Take notice of the plum colored turret. Never seen one like this. It hasn't been refinished because I know the providence of this particular press. Was originally purchased by my BIL's father, who was killed in a motorcycle accident in the 70's. He used it exclusively for 12 gauge shotshell reloading. Sat in their basement for all those years, till I recently obtained it. All the holes are tapped for 1 1/2 inch dies.


120137


Winelover

[MDphotographer]

Wine what are the holes in the side of the turret where the die holes are? Set screws? Also that turret looks thicker then an original Hollywood turret if those are CH press top bushings when screwed all the way down a little would be coming out of the bottom of the turret.That turret might not be an original Hollywood.

[LUBEDUDE]

I wanna be Team Hollywood too dammit lol

If you're using the Beasts and/or collecting them, or making parts for folks, and/or educating them- well, you're Team Hollywood!

[Digger]

And I was just going to ask that very same question ...
one Hollywood senior owner (newby !) .....:bigsmyl2:

[.50bmg]

Go team hollywood!

[Tracvision]

Ha Ha, I don't know, but I sure might be interested. I need to get a couple of the universal shell holders ordered. I have several hollywood shell holders, but not for all calibers.

Star, DO you need the shell holder, nut and collet? Or just the shell holder?

[Tracvision]

Have had it in my watch list, since it was listed. Curious, as to what it sells for. I already have one in almost new condition. Take notice of the plum colored turret. Never seen one like this. It hasn't been refinished because I know the providence of this particular press. Was originally purchased by my BIL's father, who was killed in a motorcycle accident in the 70's. He used it exclusively for 12 gauge shotshell reloading. Sat in their basement for all those years, till I recently obtained it. All the holes are tapped for 1 1/2 inch dies.


120137


Winelover
Wine, Is that patina or some type of coating. My Super turret has goldish? colored turret and parts. I have quite a few senior turrets from Hollywood Gun Shop but never saw that colored version. Me likes it !!! :-P

[starmac]

I have quite a few different shell holders with the nuts. What I need to get is the universal adapter, so I can use rcbs style standard shell holders.

[MDphotographer]

CH4D sells those for $12 or so http://www.ch4d.com/products/equipment/presses/407190

[starmac]

Thanks for the link. I had looked for them on their sire before, but didn't find them.

[Tracvision]

Thanks for the link. I had looked for them on their sire before, but didn't find them.

I have a box of shell holders / no nuts on the shelf Star. $10.00 each plus actual shipping. They will allow you to use the RCBS shell holders or others. snap in self centering.

[starmac]

I have a box of shell holders / no nuts on the shelf Star. $10.00 each plus actual shipping. They will allow you to use the RCBS shell holders or others. snap in self centering.

I would gladly take a couple of them. PM incoming.

[winelover]

Wine what are the holes in the side of the turret where the die holes are? Set screws? Also that turret looks thicker then an original Hollywood turret if those are CH press top bushings when screwed all the way down a little would be coming out of the bottom of the turret.That turret might not be an original Hollywood.

The holes are indeed for set screws, to keep the bushing in place, after adjustment. The thickness of the turret is .889 inches. I have 4 original Hollywood flanged bushings (1.185" thick) and 4 CH unflanged bushings (1.372" thick). They all will extend bellow the bottom of the turret, if you so choose.

The turret is steel, hence a magnet will stick to it. However, it could be a different type and thus accepted the bluing process, differently. It's definitely not a patina, it's too uniform and quality is on par with the rest of the unit. I'm pretty sure is original, just a variation. This is to be expected, since they were hand made, not mass produced.

Winelover

[LUBEDUDE]

Winelover, I agree with you, I believe that your Father in law stripped the paint off the turret and re blued it gone gone wild.

Here's why; the Bren Ten pistols from the eighties while only less than a 1000 were made, some of those slides and parts came out plum colored.

I may even have one in the safe, but they are all buried, as well as the safe!

[Pressman]

The purple color that sometimes shows up when bluing is a result of hard steel and the bluing salts not mixed correctly. That is really hard steel. The bren 10 slides would be a great example as are some rifle receivers.

Ken

[Jim Kitchen]

Is there any interest in Team Hollywood t-shirts? I'm thinking of doing a run if I can drum up enough people to make it feasible.

[Jim Kitchen]

Anyone who loves Hollywood equipment is a member of Team Hollywood. Owning one just means you get to learn the secret handshake.

[LUBEDUDE]

I'd be up for a couple of shirts!

[Tracvision]

Is there any interest in Team Hollywood t-shirts? I'm thinking of doing a run if I can drum up enough people to make it feasible.

I would be in for a few shirts. :-o

120912

[HGS]

Is there any interest in Team Hollywood t-shirts? I'm thinking of doing a run if I can drum up enough people to make it feasible.

Jim;

You can put me down for a couple T-shirts. Are you thinking just letters or putting a Picture of a Hollywood press on them??

HGS

[Jim Kitchen]

Hi HGS,

I spoke with Dave this morning. There's going to be two different t-shirts, both dark blue.

The first will have the original blueprint for the Senior in white on the back of the shirt with "Hollywood Gun Shop" on the front left breast.

If you own a Super Turret I'll sell you the snazzy blue t-shirt with the blueprint for the Super Turret on the back in white. On the front of that t-shirt we'll have the pithy phrase: "My reloading tool goes to 11" or some such. If you Super Turret has a serial number like a few of them do I might even add your serial number.

Still sorting out some details but this should be pretty easy.

Thanks,

Jim

[Tracvision]

I'm in for one of each Jim. I would prefer the Hollywood Gun Shop on the front of both, if possible.

[Jim Kitchen]

I'll do a separate thread on the shirts in a week or so. I need to get some pricing but have you down for a couple.

Sorry to interrupt the thread.

[ReloaderFred]

Does this count: http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m606/ReloaderFred/BulletSwaging003-1.jpg (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/ReloaderFred/media/BulletSwaging003-1.jpg.html)

I also have my original Hollywood Senior (the shorter version) that I bought used in 1963 from one of my college professors for $25.00, including a set of Hollywood .30-06 dies. I'm still using it, but not as much as my other presses.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Wayne Smith]

I guess my one lonely Sr. qualifies me for a shirt.

[Digger]

I guess my one lonely Sr. qualifies me for a shirt.

We are both in the same category there Wayne !!

[Tracvision]

I'll do a separate thread on the shirts in a week or so. I need to get some pricing but have you down for a couple.

Sorry to interrupt the thread.

Hey Jim, Are those shirts still in the works ?

Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

[Forty5r]

I have an older Hollywood Senior Turret that I restored! If anyone is selling the turret (part not the whole press) please PM me cost. I am getting some play in the turret after moving it to a specific station. It only happens on a few stations. Some of the other stations are locked down super tight. Its almost like the detent hole is a little worn. (Forty5r@yahoo.com)

[LUBEDUDE]

MDPhotographer is making turrets. He is making a few for me. You should find one his posts on this thread or on a Hollywood thread on the next page. Then PM him.

[Tracvision]

older Hollywood Senior Turret ...snip... the detent hole is a little worn. (Forty5r@yahoo.com)

Forty, I have seen that in some Hollywood Turret Presses with the wrong sized ball being used for the detente. The ball is spring loaded and should recess completely in the hole that is drilled in the press column. If it doesn't, either ream the hole a bit or replace with a smaller ball. The detente holes in the turret are usually not the issue. DO NOT press the ball into the base if it is over-sized or it may get stuck.

Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

[MDphotographer]

Forty it sounds to me like you have some worn indexing holes in the turret.If the indexing ball was too small then more of it would go up into the turret and it would actually bind when you try to index it. The hole in the base is 1/4" dia. and about 5/8" deep.The spring should be just below the lip of the hole about 1/16th of an inch.The 1/4" ball bearing sits on top of the spring and compresses when you screw the top on.The indexing holes in the turret are 7/32" or so in dia..... just a bit smaller then the ball bearing.The ball bearing actually indexes on the mouth of this hole it does not touch the bottom of the hole up inside the turret.You will see on any turret that has seen use that on the mouth of the hole wear the ball bearing rides over will be worn some. This is normal but if the turret has seen so much use that you get slop or travel there are only 3 remedies.

1. weld up sloppy holes grind flat and redrill. (not easy to do because the weld material is very hard when compared to the cast turret material

2. make the indexing hole in the base bigger to 5/16" and use new spring and BB (not a good idea since the shoulder the indexing hole sits on on the base is 3/8" wide and after subtracting for a 1/4" hole you only have 1/16" between the indexing hole and the outside of the cylinder and outside of the 1/4 indexing hole.

3. New turret

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tracyvision: You got the drawings for these machines? Did you get the patterns for the castings in the deal too?

There is no reason why these machines could not be produced on an ongoing basis. Many people here have access to the foundry's that could make these parts, and the outfit that probably made them in the first place was Buddy Bar Castings in LA. If you don't have the patterns I would start looking for them there.

Also if you have drawings, there are many people here who could make parts for you.

Having as much of the small parts inventory as you have and the drawings, kind of makes YOU the anointed Hollywood Guru. [smilie=s:

Not producing these machines for todays market would be tantamount to,,,

"Looking a Gift Horse in the Mouth."

This would be a violation of the first rule of business which is,,,

"Don't look a Gift Horse in the Mouth!"

There is a ongoing demand for the machines and spare parts, and you should be the one supplying them. I assure you that if you don't do it someone else will...

An opportunity like this only comes along once in a long while.

And just so you understand the patents on all of this stuff have long since expired,,, essentially meaning anyone can make these machines. Even if the patents were in place nobody could afford to defend them, which essentially means they are useless.

I might add that all it takes to duplicate a machine,,, is a machine to copy. Reverse engineering these machines with computers and 3D printing is literally child's play.

The Chinese are also very good at this as witnessed by the nice copy of the F35 that they shoved in Obama's face just last week.

None of this is meant to condone that practice or to in any way say it is right. I have been ripped off big time by no talent thieves who couldn't come up with an original idea to save their Arses, and it cost me big money.

You on the other hand obtained the inventory and essentially the rights to manufacture this machine. If you need any help or need advice on how to do the production I am more than willing to volunteer my services, and knowledge on how to accomplish this.

If you just let the project sit,,, eventually someone else will do it.

I've seen it a hundred times.

Randy

[MDphotographer]

Randy going into production on these presses would not be easy to make a profit it takes a lot more then just having the molds to make the castings look at some of the pictures he has of the machinery that was used to make them back in the day. You are looking at 10s of thousand of dollars for mills lathes and tooling to go into production. Not to mention facilities and payroll,insurance etc etc. you would not be able to compete price wise with RCBS Redding Lyman and Lee turret presses. As much as I love Hollywood presses I know you would find it impossible to turn a profit making them. I know how many hours it takes me to turn out 1 turret using cold rolled steel instead of castings in my home machine shop and even selling the turret alone for $200 I am making a lot less then minimum wage.

[Tracvision]

W.R,

MD is right. Regardless of having the castings, production would be a labor of love. To me, the castings and old machines are there to be part of an ongoing collection. I sold a "NEW" Senior Turret on Ebay and was able to get $650 for it. The cost to produce the machine would be twice that, not considering a dime profit. Believe me, you are preaching to the choir. There is just no market.

Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

[Tracvision]

Forty it sounds to me like you have some worn indexing holes in the turret...snip

MD, Really? Worn indexing holes? The working surfaces were hardened to Rockwell 80, if they were produced by Hollywood Gun Shop. Even if they were worn, it would not cause the turret to wobble. The ball has nothing to do with turret support. What I have seen in some presses is an oversized ball jammed into the press. When the turret turns, the ball should recess completely into the hole. If it does not, that would cause the problem. It would be interesting to see the press.

Forty, If you want to ship it to Florida, I will be glad to have a close look. If you do need a new turret, which I doubt, MD makes a fine one.

Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

[smokeywolf]

Patents are only good for 17 years. Copyright, the life of the author + 50 years. Trademarks good for as long as you want to keep renewing them.

Hope to add to my singular Hollywood Sr. single stage one day.

smokeywolf

[MDphotographer]

Trac I understand the BB has nothing to do with supporting the turret but I don't care how hard it has been heat treated a stainless BB is going to wear on a flat part when it rolls against it. Where the BB goes into the indexing hole you will see some wear in the indexing hole lip where the BB ride over it before springing into the hole to index and again on the other side where the BB rides over the lip of the hole as the BB exits. The indexing is basically like a dead bolt lock. The BB is the bolt and the spring is the knob that sets the bolt. If the BB is too big it will never go down into the hole in the base a 5/16" BB would never get stuck in the hole it is just too big,for you to have a BB get stuck in the base indexing hole under spring pressing it would have to be at the most .002" oversize and it would take an amazing amount of force to press it into the hole. anything bigger then those few thou over size simple wont go down into the hole.The indexing holes in the turret are purposely undersize a little so that the BB will index on the mouth of the hole and not go halfway or more up into the turret indexing holes,if it were to do this it would bind the turret up.Because the turret index holes are small the BB can also ride up over the lip as you change stations.

The turrets are made of cast steel even if hardened to 80bn it isnt going to be as hard or wear as little as a 1/4" stainless ball bearing. I just drilled out 4 holes for lube on an oddball turret he had 3hole were untapped slightly smaller then 1-1/4" and had set scres in the side of the turret. When I drilled them out to 1-7/16 for 1-1/2-12 thread the chips where like granulated powder not like normal steel chips like from cold rolled steel.

Forty stated that he had problems on only 2 of the station not indexing correctly that there was some slop (play) when those stations are indexed. When I mean slop and he says play I assume he means side to side play and not up and down play

[smokeywolf]

MD, Really? Worn indexing holes? The working surfaces were hardened to Rockwell 80, if they were produced by Hollywood Gun Shop. Even if they were worn, it would not cause the turret to wobble. The ball has nothing to do with turret support. What I have seen in some presses is an oversized ball jammed into the press. When the turret turns, the ball should recess completely into the hole. If it does not, that would cause the problem. It would be interesting to see the press.

Forty, If you want to ship it to Florida, I will be glad to have a close look. If you do need a new turret, which I doubt, MD makes a fine one.

Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

Although I'm not questioning your statement; that just makes no sense. The balls themselves are only about a Rc 62 to 66. Even high speed steel usually doesn't surpass Rc 70.

smokeywolf

[Alvarez Kelly]

I had a turret tool in my hands a few years ago... The turret holes where the ball bearing would ride was very well worn in 2 spots. I've seen it. The turrets wear.

[Forty5r]

Thanks for the info guys on the detent region. I'll take some photos of it in the next week and post them. I want to get this thing solid there isn't any slop in any of the stations when I am FL-Resizing or seating bullets.

[Tracvision]

I had a turret tool in my hands a few years ago... The turret holes where the ball bearing would ride was very well worn in 2 spots. I've seen it. The turrets wear.
Lets assume the BB wears completely into the turret. I still do not see how that is going to cause any slop/movement. That being said, I assumed we were talking about vertical movement. I guess we need to determine if the movement referred to is side to side or up and down, as MD points out.
Smokey, HW claims that all working surfaces were hardened to rockwell 80. I cannot verify that. It is the claim they made. However, I doubt it was just hype.
Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

[MDphotographer]

there should never be up and down movement if you have the cap tightened all the way down I believe he is talking side to side movement here is a 200% crop of a moderately worn turret

122299

See how the indexing holes have groves in them where the BB enters into the hole and the hole is starting to elongate left and right? That is how you get side to side slop in your turret

[Alvarez Kelly]

... here is a 200% crop of a moderately worn turret

122299



And the turret tool turret I had in my hands a few years ago was worn significantly more than the one in this photo. I don't recall any up and down play however.

My point was... at least some of the turrets WILL wear more than you would think.

[MDphotographer]

agreed Alvarez

[Forty5r]

122304

[Forty5r]

Tracvision, the turret has no up or down play. MDphotographer and Alvarez hit the nail on the head. The slop is side to side play. The above photo is cropped from one of the photos I took of the press when I was reconditioning it. All the detents don't look symmetrical to each other.

[MDphotographer]

Forty I think part of the problem is the inside of the holes are not dome shaped it is more counter sunk it should be dome shaped it looks to me like someone took a countersink drill to the holes to make it turn easier from one position to the other and that is why you are getting side to side play

[Forty5r]

122305 122307122308This is the turret when I first received it. 122306 Here she is after I got her cleaned up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/forty5r/Mobile%20Uploads/1396822859_zpsc604bdf0.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/forty5r/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1396822859_zpsc604bdf0.jpg.html)

[Forty5r]

For a temp fix, I moved the 308 dies to the side of the press that is super tight and has the least amount of lateral slop. I'll take this thing apart next week and get some accurate photos of the inside with better lighting. These were just quick iPhone photos to document reconditioning this press. You guys rock!

[Tracvision]

Forty,

When you take your press apart, there are a few things I would like to ask you to check. 1.What is the dia. of the ball bearing under the turret?
2.On the back of the 2 1/2" main riser tube, there is a keyway. The shell holder carriage rides up and down and is held in alignment by this keyway. Is there a key inside the set screw on the back side of the riser or a ball under a set screw?
3.And finally, I cant see in the pix, are both bellcrank arms the same length? I would just like to date the press.
Regards,

Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

[Tracvision]

BTW Forty,

NICE !!! restoration of an old girl. Very presentable.

Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

[Tracvision]

Forty I think part of the problem is the inside of the holes are not dome shaped it is more counter sunk it should be dome shaped it looks to me like someone took a countersink drill to the holes to make it turn easier from one position to the other and that is why you are getting side to side play
MD, You are right. The turret indexers appear to have been countersunk. I will be interested to see what size ball is under the turret.
Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

[Forty5r]

Forty,

When you take your press apart, there are a few things I would like to ask you to check. 1.What is the dia. of the ball bearing under the turret?
2.On the back of the 2 1/2" main riser tube, there is a keyway. The shell holder carriage rides up and down and is held in alignment by this keyway. Is there a key inside the set screw on the back side of the riser or a ball under a set screw?
3.And finally, I cant see in the pix, are both bellcrank arms the same length? I would just like to date the press.
Regards,

Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD


I'll get some measurements for you and some photos. It would be awesome to get some date info on this bad boy. Do you happen to have an extra primer "thingy" for this press. The one that it came with is way too short. Its for another Hollywood press.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/forty5r/Mobile%20Uploads/1396822829_zpsb31d3fac.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/forty5r/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1396822829_zpsb31d3fac.jpg.html)

It also came with this...... I have no idea what is is for. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/forty5r/Mobile%20Uploads/1396822770_zps52119475.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/forty5r/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1396822770_zps52119475.jpg.html)

[starmac]

Is that bottom picture standard die size. Hard to tell the size from the pic. If so what does the inside look like.

[LUBEDUDE]

Forty5, what kind of shellholder are you using?

Is it an adapter that takes any standard RCBS Type shellholder that snaps in?

Or are you using Hollywood/CH caliber specific ones?

[smokeywolf]

RE: the pic of the turret in post #66. Not only do the indexing holes appear to have been countersunk, they appear to be a 60 degree, such as what one might expect to see from a center drill or center reamer. Also, it appears to me that where the edge of the countersink meets the bottom surface of the turret, that edge has become broken or rounded to a small degree. Although the lighting and detail in the picture may be deceiving me, I don't think I'm seeing the same rounding or breaking of that edge on all the holes/chamfers.

smokeywolf

[Tracvision]

I'll get some measurements for you and some photos. It would be awesome to get some date info on this bad boy. Do you happen to have an extra primer "thingy" for this press. It also came with this...... I have no idea what is is for. :)

Forty, Let me know what primer length you need. Small , large or 50bmg.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tracvision: You farm every part out to local machine shops. You don't need a machine shop, you deal with several machine shops owned by other people who do this type of work everyday. Each part or group of parts is sent out for bids and the lowest bids that yield good parts are chosen.

I do this stuff every day,,, believe me it is entirely feasible.

I would start with the Senior as it is simplest one.

The Hollywood's were all made on manual machines. Believe me there is nothing that hard about manufacturing these machines with modern machinery. You don't need all of the fixtures they used.

In quantities of 25 to 50 parts (25-50 machines worth) these machines could be produced for less than $100 each.

Example: RCBS Summit Press. Similar enough to the Senior to make my point. These machines sell for between $175 and $200 retail. Wholesale is probably closer to $125-150. RCBS has to make at least 120% to break even on the product at wholesale, which means it has to produce those machines for less than $50 each to make a large enough profit to be worth while.

The Hollywood Senior could be made for less than $100. The 3 castings would be the most of the cost and if you made enough of them the cost would come down dramatically. Like I said 25-50 sets of parts for the first run. The aluminum castings I have seen were done for one reason, and that was to reduce costs.

After that anyone who participated in the machine work would have the process figured out. There is no need for a bunch of oddball fixtures like they had to have to make the parts on manual machinery. The flexibility of CNC machines would take care of most of it .

A good example of the simplicity of the parts is the priming stud. All it is,,, is a few simple parts put together, none of which is worth more than a couple of dollars each. These are all Screw Machine Parts.

This project is entirely feasible and if you don't do it someone else will.

Also You don't have to compete with the others. Hollywood's were the Rolls Royce's of loading presses.

I routinely see Seniors go for $350-500 on Ebay depending on condition. Your's would be NEW condition!

Before you dismiss this idea completely I would suggest finding a really good machine shop in your area and putting the press down in front of them and asking what they think about reproducing it in quantity. Show them the simple one first.

You might be surprised.

Randy

[Tracvision]

Randy,

I want to thank you for that information on producing Hollywood presses. I really appreciate the valuable knowledge you have given me. It is people like yourself that have made my venturing into this forum a rich experience.
Secondly,and with all due respect, I never really had any intentions of getting into a business venture. I bought Lyle Corcoran's remaining inventory to preseve it, not to revive it. I DO have a few Senior Turrets I would like to sell. However, beyond that... I would like to make sure the original presses/molds/prototypes/inventory remain in the right hands AND also help in solving the Hollywood ownership quagmire. If I can contribute to the factual documentation of Hollywood history, I would consider my venture a success.

Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

[Tracvision]

And the turret tool turret I had in my hands a few years ago was worn significantly more than the one in this photo. I don't recall any up and down play however. My point was... at least some of the turrets WILL wear more than you would think.

Alvarez,
Looking at a few different presses, including the one on my bench that has been in service for over 50 years, I have a few items to offer:
1) If the ball bearing in the tower is stainless, it probably didn't come from Mr Corcorans stock. My stock of 1/4" bearings are chrome plated steel. They wear, hopefully helping to preserve the press turret.
2) If the spring holding the ball in the tower is too long, the ball will not be able to COMPLETELY retract into the hole. If the ball can not completely retract into that hole, you will get abnormal wear. I have also seen undersized holes that do not allow the detent ball to fit into the hole without jamming.
One thing I have learned recently is that not all Hollywoods are Hollywoods. There were a few ( or more) businesses that had a go at making the Senior Turrets after the patents expired. Some were even produced by others before the patent expired in 1980. Some did it right, some did it wrong. I hope, with the help of many people on this forum, to be able to put that history together. Special thanks to Lubedude, Pressman, ReloaderFred..and many others that have been a great help in sorting this history out.

Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

[W.R.Buchanan]

Harold: I fully understand you position and I don't want to either. However eventually someone will. Demand Creates a Vacuum and this is true of all things. Perfect example is ISIS rising up after we pulled out.

You can buy virtually every body part for a 55,56 or 57 Chevy This is because people like them and the existing original parts are starting to get scarce. There are countless other instances of people reproducing replicas of things once made that were once popular and are now commanding high prices due to scarcity.

At one time there was 50 outfits making Shelby Cobra Kits.

Just reproducing some of the small parts that wear out or get lost on these machines would be a good place to start. Supporting the machines is something that wouldn't require a large investment and is kind of what you are doing already with your inventory of NOS parts. As they get depleted you could make replacements.

Also when you get to the point where you are ready to pass this legacy on to the next guy, the more parts you have, the greater the value.

I'm sure that there will be plenty who are interested in carrying the torch on the next leg.

The thing about good machinery is that it is timeless. As long as people can make ammunition the Hollywood will be a desirable tool. I have stated here many times that I have never seen a worn out reloading tool of any kind, missing parts with no source for replacements is the only thing that will kill a product line.

If you do need any help making replacements don't hesitate to ask.

Randy

[Tracvision]

Harold: I fully understand you position and I don't want to either...snip...If you do need any help making replacements don't hesitate to ask.Randy

Randy, Very well said and thank you very much for the offer of help.
Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

[W.R.Buchanan]

Guys: I have a set of Lachmiller 12 ga dies which I thought were used on a Hollywood Press. However they have 1 1/4" threads not the 1 1/2" threads everybody talks about. Are there bushings for the holes for these dies?

It is a three die set including a Sizer/Depriming die, a Wad Installing Die that I think doubles as the Primer and a Crimper. Are these related to Hollywood Turret Presses or something completely different?

They look exactly like the ones in the picture of the Turret Press with the purple turret in one of the previous posts.

Randy

[Tracvision]

Thanks for the info guys on the detent region. I'll take some photos of it in the next week and post them. I want to get this thing solid there isn't any slop in any of the stations when I am FL-Resizing or seating bullets.

Randy, Solid is a relative term. I assume you want the SENIOR TURRET like a rock when in the detent position. The Senior Turret will never be as solid in the detent as a Super. The super has two detent balls. One is on the outer edge of the large turret at the back of the main frame. When a Super locks in, you know it.
On the other hand, i can offer a very inexpensive solution , that may be even better than it was when new. Drill two more holes in the Base tower. One at 3 O'CLock and One at 9 O'clock. Use a machinists "F" sized bit sized 0.2570". This will allow the 1/4" ball to drop in the holes without binding. Now you will have 3 detent positions holding that turret in place. I have not tried it, but I don't see why it wont work. Make sure that all three balls ( 2 new and one old ) recess COMPLETELY into the holes easily. I like spring pressure set so the weight of the turret alone compresses the spring and ball to where the turret rests on the column. Otherwise you will continue to wear the underside of the turret. I'll bet MD could do that for you. I can supply new balls and springs. Let me know what you think. I may try it on my Turret.

Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

122576

[Pressman]

Randy your shotgun dies could very well have been used on a Hollywood. They along with Lachmiller, Herter's, RCBS and a few others all threaded their presses for 1-1/4"-18 tpi. Somewhere along the line the standard thread changed to 1-1/2-12tpi.
Why is another mystery that needs solving.

Ken

[MDphotographer]

I have made a jig for making turrets that is basically the top of the press but instead of having 1-3/4-8 thread it has 5/8-18 threads that use a washer on to bolt down turrets in the index holes while drill out the die holes. My jig has 8 index holes drilled out for the ball bearings and springs though I usually only use 4 holes. The press I have uses a 1/4 base index hole 5/8" deep the spring is .047 wire 1/4 diameter 9/16 long.This lets the ball set right on top of the spring but you can pluck it out with your hand. When you put a turret on mine the turret does NOT compress the spring. Tightening the cap compresses the spring so the turret sets on the 3/8" shelf of the cylinder.When you take the cap back off the turret still sits down but when you remove the turret the spring un-compress and pushes the ball out of the hole .

DO NOT drill the hole out bigger then 1/4" inch that would make the springs too small for the holes and when it is compressed the spring will blow out because the hole is too big.Plus you would then get slop in the index ball in the base/cylinder.

I have discussed with lube drilling more indexing holes in the base to aid solid indexing. When indexing on my jig using 4 springs and BBs the indexing is VERY positive you get 1/16 each way or less play left to right.HOWEVER...turning the turret is also MUCH harder. Also I believe a little play is needed so that the case will self align with the die ala a Forster Co-Ax. I can tell you from personal experience it is not a simple matter to drill these holes so that index and die holes align perfectly on a manual machine and having a little play in the indexing to help isnt a bad thing. The turrets from Hollywoood are cast turrets and they probably had the die holes set in the casting and then all they had to do was put it on a jig to drill out the indexing holes in the turret

In this picture you can see my jig with 8 holes. The round washer under the nut barely lets me bolt the turret down to the jig and have clearance to see the bit as it drill the indexing holes in the turret. I use a center drill then a 3/16 ball mill to make a dome hole then start a 13/64 drill bit as that seems the best diameter for the 1/4 ball bearing to index into. 7/32 is just a tad to big and dont get as strong an index from it.I drilled the bottom for a 1/2-13 thread so using a stud and T-nut I can bolt it to my mill table and also drilled and tapped for a 5/8-18 thread I can use a one side blank stud to use with a collet on my indexer.You can see the 1/8 holes in the bottom so I can push springs and ball bearings out if need be. To check alighnment on the holes I put 8 ball bearing on the index holes of a Hollywood Sr Turret and slide my jig down over it by hand with a couple of light taps the turret sat down fully on the jig but because they had no springs in the holes my BB's got stuck I have since sanded the inside of the holes so the balls wont get stuck

If you are going to drill your base for more indexing holes I would go with 4 so you have equal pressure on the base on both axis remember though that you will also get 4 times the index hole wear in the turret using that many BB's.I have also considered filing a small grove where the BB rides over the lip on the turret index holesgoing into and out of each hole to aid in turning the turret without hurting index lock up
122592122593122594

[Tracvision]

Good write up MD. I do respectfully disagree on a few points. The 1/4" index ball will get stuck in a 1/4 " hole. The hole oversized to 0.257 ends that problem and there is no room left for slop. The 1/4" spring will ride very smooth in that diameter, as mine does, and will not bind or blow out. We are only enlarging .007. In addition, the hole does not need to be enlarged all the way to the bottom. I believe the bases originally had a few other 1/4" holes drilled ( oilers ) that also had to be enlarged. Later on, subsequent manufacturers stopped using the oilers because the holes were undersized. Not sure why they just didn't drill them out.
As to spring pressure, I believe it should be as little as possible to reduce wear. The idea of having a little slop ( if you will ) for self centering is probably the way it was designed.
If you want to put 4 holes equally spaced, you would have to eliminate the existing one, as the 6 o'clock position is the keyway. I would just move the 6 and 9 positions, one detent aft and make a triangle. Regardless, the turret was not designed to be supported in any manner by the detent ball.
I understand that some presses even have been seen with a ball in the shell holder carriage assembly instead of the key for alignment ( see pic ). This was not done by Hollywood. It was an after the fact fix for a company that didn't want to reproduce the proper part for the keyway.
Keep in mind, I am not trying to change or redesign HW's press. I just want to build them the way they were designed. I believe many of the existing issues arise from changes done after HW was no longer making the decisions.
Just my $0.02
122591
Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

[MDphotographer]

I didnt think about the keyway preventing a indexing hole at 6 oclock good point.A 1/4 BB will get stuck in a 1/4 hole that is rough with no spring it will not get stuck in a hole that is smooth and has a proper length and strength spring in it. I know I have one in my press and 8 on my jig.I have a Hollywood Joe press I know that.It is not a HW Gun Shop press but the spring and BB that came with it work very well indexing on any original turret or HW Joe turret I have put on it and one time when putting a shorter spring in and I could pull the BB out a magnet sucked it right out.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Randy your shotgun dies could very well have been used on a Hollywood. They along with Lachmiller, Herter's, RCBS and a few others all threaded their presses for 1-1/4"-18 tpi. Somewhere along the line the standard thread changed to 1-1/2-12tpi.
Why is another mystery that needs solving.

Ken

Ken: they very well could be 1 1/4-18 as I only put a ruler up to them, 16 and 18 would be hard to differentiate between. I'll check them on the comparator tomorrow and verify what they actually are. I think I did this when I got them a few years ago and noted that they were something weird.

I plan on selling these so if anyone is interested let me know.

Randy

[Tracvision]

MD,
Last night I couldn't get your picture of the of the jigs to come up. Seems to work today. Very impressive. As for the 1/4" hole with the 1/4" bearing. The bearing can deform slightly as it is soft steel. It will then get stuck. 7 thou seems to work nice. I grease things up pretty well also.
As for the Shell Holder Carrier having a bearing, I cant see why it wont work, but the unit was designed with a keyway for a key. Being more interested in the history, than the mechanics, I just want to document the history correctly. The patents show the original design fairly well.
Nice work on the jigs. If you re-index a base , I would like to hear the results. I think it would work for those that want to modify the press to have more positive locking turret.
What size bearing is used in your carrier?
Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

[W.R.Buchanan]

Harold: I see some discrepancies in the dialog concerning the design on these machines. If you will allow me to interject my .02 on this subject maybe I can clear up some of the misinformation.

You guys need to understand that all of the guys that made these machines and worked there were former Aerospace Machinists and Toolmakers from the Aerospace Industry in the San Fernando Valley in California. In the 60's, and up until the late 80's, the SF Valley was the home of the Aerospace Industry and the pool of talent that was available was beyond comparison. That's why these machines were so good,,, They were designed and built by some of the best Machinists and Toolmakers that ever ran Manual Machinery.

However the point is "they were designed around manual machinery" and that is why there are many Jigs and Fixtures associated with them. Understanding those jigs and fixtures is key to understanding the machine.

My Main Point here is that they understood exactly how to design and make a very complex machine that would stay together virtually indefinitely. They built Jet Fighters and Jet Engines, and real live Rockets! The Hollywood Reloading Presses were not a big stretch for these guys. They didn't do anything "by Gosh and by Golly!

Really for a Detent Ball design for locating the Turret of the type you guys are bandying about, the hole carrying the ball should be drilled and then reamed to about .252-3, for use with a .250 ball.( about .002-.004 clearance for whatever size ball you are using.) This provides the ball with clearance to operate but has minimal slop. It is lubricated with thin oil to minimize crude build up. Simply drilling with a F drill will actually yield a hole that is larger than .257 and how much larger depends greatly on the actual point of the drill.

The ball for this application would be a standard .250 dia. ball bearing which are readily available individually from any bearing house or McMaster Carr. The balls are glass hard just like any other Ball Bearing or they would deform quickly.

The actual Detent hole would be drilled with a 60* center drill and would be close to .250 at the top of the hole as possible and all the same depth so that there is the same amount of pull coming out of the hole on each station. The shallower the angle of the hole the less locational force you have and the easier the ball will jump out of the hole. (Inclined Plane)

The actual contact point of the ball is actually a circle and it is down inside the tapered hole. Lead in and out ramps which develop during use are not a detriment to precision of location until they are deep enough that they become "well below the Locating Surface" in the detent hole.

The drill jig shown above looks to have holes that are smaller than the actual detent holes. This was/is standard practice since you would drill pilot holes undersize using the jig and then open them to final size as a second operation on a drill press.

The fixture that located the plunger hole in the base is the thing that would govern alignment of the Turret Holes to the Ram. If there was any slop built into the press for alignment, it would be in the shell holder itself as the Press would have been as close to zero slop as they could make it. I doubt anything left there that had more than a couple of thousandths clearance in the ram. Same holds true for the Turret. They were going for as much rigidity as possible,,, as rigidity is what governs lasting precision.

After all,,, you were paying for a Cadillac, and they were in the business of building Cadillac's.

I may be slightly off base on some of my assertions and without seeing some of the parts first hand and comparing them to the drawings I couldn't be 100% sure.(IE Reverse Engineering) However I learned my Craft from people like this in the 80's. My shop was originally in Ventura CA and that is about 50 miles from North Hollywood. Some of the shops that I used for the last 30+ years and still use today are in that area. There were literally hundreds of Machine Shops in the Valley that did every kind of specialty machine work known to man, and they were located there specifically to service the large Aerospace Contractors who were all located there at that time. CA stupidly encouraged most of them to leave with ridiculous regulations and taxes.

One of the hardest things about Reverse Engineering something is the fact that in order to do it right you must first learn how to think like the guys that preceded you. As I said I learned from this generation of guys, and even though some things do change, others remain the same.

Harold: you have been given a big puzzle with many pieces (all that stuff in the plastic bins)to piece together. I have done this many times and the key is to learn exactly what every single part does I would caution you to NOT THROW ANYTHING AWAY unless you know exactly what it is. This will help you avoid the dreaded "AHA moment," when you discover that you have tossed an important part because it didn't look like anything important.

Randy

[smokeywolf]

Nice write-up Randy. Definitely spot on about the .252-.253 reamer.
Seems our machining/designing careers were somewhat similar and followed a similar time frame. Not to derail the thread, but got an 80ish low hour HLV-H-EM; having it freshened up and DRO added ($26K)

smokeywolf

[W.R.Buchanan]

Smokey,, I'm looking for one right now!

Randy

[smokeywolf]

Smokey,, I'm looking for one right now!

Randy

If I were still looking, I'd be inquiring about this one.

http://www.rohnermachinery.com/lathes/0804.htm

smokeywolf

[W.R.Buchanan]

smokey: That is a nice one, somebody didn't get their moneys worth out of it for sure as it hasn't been used enough to even wear some of the paint. He referred to it as a "Barn Find."

Lots of tooling that the average guy isn't going to have with it. A full set of collets, chucks and the very important must have change gears to run metric threads.

I think they are a little proud at $22,500 but I'd be interested around $15K. It did have a threaded spindle nose which all of mine do so all my Spindle tooling would interchange. Kind of a big deal as they don't give any of that stuff away.

I don't really need the English/Metric capability but it would be nice to have as long as I didn't have to pay for it.

The biggest problem with nice machines is that the tool dealers are trying to get top dollar based on the current new price. That machine was made in the mid 90's.

Randy

Plenty of them out there I just have to find one that fits my budget.

[Forty5r]

WOW you guys rock. Gone for a few days and all this information shows up. I'm going to have to read through this a little at a time to digest everything. I don't have alot of experience working with metal.

Here are hopefully some better photos.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/forty5r/Mobile%20Uploads/1416889872_zpsa77ceaf9.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/forty5r/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1416889872_zpsa77ceaf9.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/forty5r/Mobile%20Uploads/1416889892_zpsa6197d02.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/forty5r/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1416889892_zpsa6197d02.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/forty5r/Mobile%20Uploads/1416889909_zps1a78c57e.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/forty5r/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1416889909_zps1a78c57e.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/forty5r/Mobile%20Uploads/1416889937_zps5df5c813.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/forty5r/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1416889937_zps5df5c813.jpg.html)

My depriming mod.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/forty5r/Mobile%20Uploads/1416889960_zps51d7e601.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/forty5r/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1416889960_zps51d7e601.jpg.html)

[Tracvision]

I'm just thinking out loud here, but I would like you guys to weigh in. There seems to be some turret wear issues relative to the detent holes. We have yet to determine if this is across the board or post Hollywood Gun Shop turrets. Regardless, I was thinking about an easy solution and found this. http://plasticballs.com/delrin.htm Delrin is very hard yet non-abrasive. What do you guys think.?

122815
Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

[smokeywolf]

Don't think delrin will hold up long enough to be practical.

If I were going to go with anything other than stainless or bearing steel, I think I'd be looking for balls in aluminum-bronze.

Delrin or Delrin AF would be more appropriate for use against aluminum. Teflon anodized aluminum also works well against standard anodized aluminum.

smokeywolf

[LUBEDUDE]

Harold, I'd talk to Mark/Snowshooze. He does some kind of heat treatment to delrin balls for Dillon 1050 presses. He says they are much harder than plain o' Delrin. How much? I never asked.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yeah,,, Delrin ain't gonna work. It doesn't matter how hard you make it. It ain't hardened steel.

I have a real hot tip for everyone on the subject of substituting this and that for these tools. No Need to do it!

Just duplicate what they did before.

When you start changing things when you don't know the reason why they were made the way they were made in the first place, creates a domino effect and requires that other things be changed to cope with the problems you created by changing the things you didn't need to change in the first place.

Does this make sense?, reread until it does.

The indexing detent system (I explained the tolerances above) on these tools is very simple and there is no need to reinvent the wheel here.

I have seen this a thousand times, it never works out. Just don't change what you don't understand, you will probably get it wrong.

Randy

[Tracvision]

Randy,

I agree with you, however, there have already been many changes made to these presses "AFTER" Hollywood. Some not so good. As far as popping a Delrin bearing in a detent hole, I can't see the harm. It is not used as a bearing and it is NOT going to harm anything. If it wears prematurely, just toss it and move on. Maybe Snowshooze will weigh in here.
Just my 0.02.
Harold
TEAM HOLLYWOOD

[W.R.Buchanan]

The Delrin won't hurt anything. It just won't index the turret positively for more than a few cycles. Lots of pressure required to keep the thing in place and as the ball moves out of the detent holes as it crosses the edge of the hole is what will tear it up.

My problem is that I worked at a place that made very specialized things before I went into biz for myself. It was a place where a lot of the engineering was done over drinks and none of the reasoning was written down and as it turned out the guys designing the machines didn't even understand why they worked. They just fiddled with stuff until it worked, and came up with BS to sell it..

I came along and started asking questions on how things worked and all I could get out of them was BS that I couldn't make work and eventually they didn't like me calling BS so they all left.

I was tasked with Reverse Engineering their creations so that we could duplicate the machines to increase production. Prior to me not one drawing of a machine was in existence. You were told to make something like that one over there, and as a result there were no two machines alike in the whole place.

I was the first person to make three identical machines with interchangeable parts, and document all of the individual parts with drawings.

Believe me there is nothing harder to sell to your boss than convincing him he doesn't know how the machine he designed and built,,, works. I did it numerous times, and I did it by demonstrating solid logic on how something worked and why it worked and then duplicating it on another machine redesigned and built from start to finish by me alone.

After the third time they just listened and let me do my thing. It made them more money.

As a result of all this I tend to be skeptical of changes to existing successful designs unless I know exactly why they made something a certain way.

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi,
Good story Randy! I see this all the time on the ships I work on. The Port Engineer (office boss) will come down for his yearly visit and have a better idea on something that does not improve anything but garanteed to either cause trouble or more work or both!

The Chief Engineer (ship boss) will tell us to do it while we are at the dock and then when we go to sea, we set everything back as it was and life goes on! By the time the Port Engineer gets back to the ship he will have forgotten his last brain storm or ignore that we are not doing it to save embarrasement!

[W.R.Buchanan]

A perfect example of what I'm talking about occurred with a machine I designed and built at that place. It was a simple mechinism that fed the Z axis of a Surface Grinder down to a set point and then retracted it automatically. It was simple and it worked perfectly, and they never needed fixing as there was nothing to wear.

I designed all the pieces of this mechinism so that they could literally be made on a drill press by a relatively unskilled person. +/-.005 was more than good enough.

About a year after I quit and was running my own shop here comes the drawings for me to bid on to make a bunch more of these machines.

Some fool that came after me thought he would "Update the Design" so that he could replace my name on the drawing with his.

All of a sudden there are hole locations dimensioned to .0005 and a bunch of dowel pins to locate the parts together none of which were even remotely necessary and deliberately left out of the initial design for this reason. He had hole sizes to +/-.0002 on 1/4 bolt holes! He had 3A call outs on threads for 1/4 bolts. and the list goes on.

Everything on my original drawings was done to +/- .005 which anyone with a mill and a DRO can easily do,,, done that way to keep costs down. But Noooooo! He had to redesign everything so he could get his name on the drawing.

I took exception to this! I called the owners and showed them what had happened as a result of them not paying attention. They were fully aware of how and why the design worked and were just as pissed as I was about the unnecessary changes which were going to cost them 10X to get the parts made to ridiculous tolerances, instead of what they should have been. I showed them both bids, and I couldn't have made the parts to the tolerances given even if I wanted to, and really neither could anyone else.

The result is that the drawings were scrapped and the older much easier drawings were sent out for bid, and I made the parts in about 3 days using sawed to size aluminum bar stock exactly like I did the first time.

The point here is that the guy who came after me didn't understand the machine and made an effort to Improve it, however since he didn't understand it, his "improvements" actually defeated the reasoning behind the thing in the first place, which was to be a simple device that easily could be duplicated by relatively unskilled workers. We had hundreds of these attachments on surface grinders, and we had virtually every Harig Surface Grinder in California at our plant. I had also rebuilt just about everyone of them at least once.

So you can see why I am "skeptical" of improvements to existing machines that have a proven track record.

Sometimes it's better to just put them back the way they were.

And believe me I am not against Legitimate Improvements,,, I just seldom see them.

Randy

[smokeywolf]

Randy, the type of engineering you did at your former employer is called "value engineering". It is the concept of engineering parts and assemblies to be as inexpensively manufactured as possible, as reliable as possible and as easily & cheaply maintained and serviced as possible.
Many engineers never learn this type of engineering.
I usually start by over-engineering parts and assemblies, then I go back over my design and loosen tolerances wherever possible without compromise to function and reliability.

Engineers have huge egos and many seek to put their names on the designs of others.

smokeywolf

[Tracvision]

Hi,
Good story Randy! I see this all the time on the ships I work on. The Port Engineer (office boss) will come down for his yearly visit and have a better idea on something that does not improve anything but guaranteed to either cause trouble or more work or both!



The Chief Engineer (ship boss) will tell us to do it while we are at the dock and then when we go to sea, we set everything back as it was and life goes on! By the time the Port Engineer gets back to the ship he will have forgotten his last brain storm or ignore that we are not doing it to save embarrasement!

Randy, If that is a picture of your Chief Engineer, I would just do whatever she says !!! Happy Thanksgiving. [smilie=s:

[W.R.Buchanan]

She left and went to Vegas and left me and the Cats at home to fend for ourselves. It's kind of nice not having to do anything.

Randy