Putting a bigger Metaplat on a 405 gr

[DLH]

What are your thoughts on starting with a Lee 405 gr. .457 dia. mold, and enlarging the Metaplat? for hunting deer and Bear.
The weight gain would be minimal, would the larger metaplat kill better?

and should in consider a Gas Check?


Thanks

[starmac]

I don't know that it would kill any deader, but do not see any reason not to try it out, providing it will cycle through your action. If you are using a lever gun.

[DLH]

I want to use a H & R Handi Rifle?

[DLH]

What kind of speed should I shoot for with out a Gas Check? And still not get leading/ I use wheel weights

[runfiverun]

leading won't be your problem, keeping your eyes in their sockets will be.

I shoot the lee 435gr gas check boolit in my browning 86, it's a fairly heavy rifle.
1600 fps is about all I want from it, I could go more and be fine [not notice the recoil] in a hunting situation.
but whatever I hit with 435 grs of lead isn't gonna notice the difference between 1600 and 1800 fps unless it's 800 yds away.
it'll still be dead at 800 yds, but it'll notice the difference, maybe, or make one more step or something, I dunno
i'll never see it happen at 1800 fps.

[leftiye]

The faster boolit would slow down faster - no difference at 800 yds.

[Djones]

I shoot this boolit anywhere between 1100-1680 fps. I prefer to hunt deer with it around 1400 fps. It pretty much is what you are describing. No need for a GC.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_460_405Gr._RF_PB_396_gr_Sketc h.Jpg

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=396

[Beerd]

DLH,
Welcome to Cast Boolits!

What are your plans for enlarging the meplat? That is, how ya gonna do it?
..

[jhalcott]

I was going to ask the same ? as Beerd. I'm wondering WHY you need more than this bullet all ready gives you! I used it in a 45-70 Contender (15" barrel) and a Siamese Mauser bolt rifle for deer and smaller critters. Most animals went down with in a dozen steps, one or two went maybe 50 yards. My alloy was WW with a bit of tin, about 2%. One deer was hit high in the shoulder and flipped on it's back. It "RAN" a few steps in that position and died before I got another round in the chamber.

[DLH]

I have 2 ways 1 st would be to sweep in the base or the largest dia. of the cavity, to find center, then use a .375 end mill in a vertical mill. WAY 2, center the cavity in a 4 jaw chuck in a lathe, and use a boring bar.

[GoodOlBoy]

I don't think it's a necessity, but IF it is something you want to do, then by all means. But PLEASE take before, during, and after picks as well as targets and post them.... Some of us are addicted to other peoples projects. Particularly those of us who tend to lack the skill to do the same thing (speaking for myself here)

GoodOlBoy

[Beerd]

sounds like you have the equipment and know how to make the modification.
someone like me would go after it with a Dremil tool :(
and yes, if you decide to do this keep the rest off us posted.
..

[starmac]

I don't have the tools or skill, sooooo I would just have to jump on up to 50 cal to get a beeger meplat.

[zippidydoodah]

I have used the Lee quick trim to make flat round nose bullets out of fmj's. it could also make larger meplats fast and not have to enlarge your mold. Besides, it is long enough and hard to use in tubular mags (guide gun).

[white eagle]

why not order a new mold?

[DLH]

Ok the first try made the bullet too heavy? 485gr ave. So tomorrow I will mill off the bottom of the mold, and put an Aluminum plate on the bottom, then if I want a lighter bullet I just set it back in the mill and shorten the bullet? I will attach the plate to one Half of the mold with 8/ 32 Steel Socket head bolts.

more SOON!

[44man]

NO, it is the alloy you use for the velocity. The meplat is over rated if the boolit is too fast and hard.
I know firsthand what a WFN does from a 45-70 if too hard. Pokes a hole with a lost deer.
Think about it for a second. The larger meplat from a hard boolit makes a pressure wave to move tissue out of the way with a secondary wound channel that will collapse. Slow the boolit and then you will see the difference. Bring in expansion if fast.
The difference between a WLN and WFN is nil at the right velocities.

[rosst]

i would consider a large hollow point with a boolit of this size if you wanted more smack . .. .

[44man]

i would consider a large hollow point with a boolit of this size if you wanted more smack . .. .
Yes, with care or the 45-70 will tear a deer asunder. A very, very devastating thing to see.
Most don't know why it has survived all these years, it is very deadly.
It would be hard for me to choose an alloy. I know 50-50 with a HP, oven hardened is just plain crazy. I think 75-25 would be better. I still need more testing and will not hunt with mine until I figure it out. Use a BP velocity and that is OK but my revolver at 1630 fps is too fast, that is where my accuracy is. A softer HP at 1100 to 1200 fps would be good.

[DanWalker]

OR...... You could cast them as softpoints. Try this. Take a 50 caliber lead roundball and put it in a ladle and float the ladle on top of your alloy as you cast some boolits. Get your mold good and hot. Frosty boolits are a good sign that mold is hot enough. Once the RB in the ladle melts, pour it into your mold and IMMEDIATELY fill the mold the rest of the way up with hot alloy from your pot. You can water drop them afterwards if you like. If you do it right, you wil wind up with a boolit with a shank hard enough to resist leading up to velocities in excess of what most of our shoulders will withstand, while giving you a very expansive nose portion that will rivet on impact and knock the BUHJEEZUS out of whatever you hit with it.

[GoodOlBoy]

Flip side is that 485gr you wound up with, in a good hard alloy, would be great for rabid log trucks. Might even work well for irate classic cars bent on destruction.

GoodOlBoy

[DLH]

Back in the 70s, we did just the opposite, I shot Muzzle loading "slug Guns". we wanted a soft base to pick up the rifling , and a Hard nose, so not to deform when loaded from the front. We swag them together mechanically

[44man]

OR...... You could cast them as softpoints. Try this. Take a 50 caliber lead roundball and put it in a ladle and float the ladle on top of your alloy as you cast some boolits. Get your mold good and hot. Frosty boolits are a good sign that mold is hot enough. Once the RB in the ladle melts, pour it into your mold and IMMEDIATELY fill the mold the rest of the way up with hot alloy from your pot. You can water drop them afterwards if you like. If you do it right, you wil wind up with a boolit with a shank hard enough to resist leading up to velocities in excess of what most of our shoulders will withstand, while giving you a very expansive nose portion that will rivet on impact and knock the BUHJEEZUS out of whatever you hit with it.
Yes but I kind of fear pure if velocity is high. I might try 50-50 for the nose. If too much I am going to 75-25, enough for some upset. I really hate to turn meat into a bloodshot mess so only shooting deer will tell me.
If I could find accuracy with my gun at 1200 to 1300 fps, that would fix it. I don't think it would matter what was used at around 1200 with the 405 gr and then a larger meplat would be more effective too. You could shoot pure to hard at that speed.

[MBTcustom]

DLH, I have just completed casting these boolits:
120765
120766
If you would like to have them (the ones in the first picture) PM me your address and I'll send them to you.
If you need a large meplat, it's hard to beat. I hear they are superbly effective!
These are cast out of 95/2.5/2.5 air cooled alloy.

[pls1911]

Holy cow... order a NOE/Ranch Dog for a next to maximun meplat,
or get an NEI 440 that literally looks like a soup can...a full wadcutter for your 45/70.

Hit the high shoulder with either of these and just about anything will drop in its shadow.

[44man]

One good thing I found with the heavier boolits is they can't be shot as fast, easy way to get in my velocity range.
Just can't get carried away and go too heavy, out of the stability range, still need accuracy.
My .44 shoots best with 310 to 330, tried the 405 gr once and they start to turn at 50 and do not track straight in expansion media.
Like the 700 gr silly for the .500 S&W, doesn't work right. Those things turned and came out the top or sides with expansion tests.

[Raylocker]

The faster boolit would slow down faster - no difference at 800 yds.